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King's Medical School sued for racism
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xxAndrewxx
I hope Kings get sued, I think it's a disgracefull med school. All they care about is how many A* you have at GCSE's and the amounts of A's at A level. Well I am talking about the A100 course that is, they need to realize that their is much more to a doctor than academic capibility! I was rejected by Kings as I 'only' had 6 A* at GCSE and a ukcat score of 610, I appealed to this decision of course, after taking a wide range of work experience ( hospice work, shadowing a Surgeon, first aid for St Johns etc) and they simply replied saying how they believed other candidates could offer more. Very convincing, considering a girl got an offer at my school, when medicine was in fact her SECOND choice. A very good admissions process to me, seeking out doctors who really want to be partt of the medical profession, and have a passion for medicine. Not. I know this sounds incredibily bitter, but you would understand if you was in my postition.
I also got rejected by them for medicine, as did most of my friends and I had ALOT of varied work experience and tried my very best at trying to get into the course. Now that i'm there doing another course, i've talked to alot of the medics and many of them already have previous degrees and alot of them have undertaken some amazing work experience, mostly due to parents/relatives already in the medical profession - stuff that people like myself would never get a chance of doing. Unfair I know but that just means I have to work that bit harder.
Regarding the topic, I think it's totally stupid! They give a dumb person like her a chance to follow her dream just because she lives in a certain area and now she's turned into a greedy cow. And as someone already mentioned - the majority of people (I'm guessing 95%) living in Lambeth are black and that is probably reflected in the course so how can she have experienced racism!
Yes, I understand why you think it sounds bitter. However I would like to lay down some facts. This isn't the first time Kings has been associated with a racism issues
[LIST]
Someone recieved a place at the med school, when he even said to me that she won't get in he's not passionate about medicine, and that his heart is truely set on history.
If you thinks that sounds like a good admission process, then okay Kings is fantastic then! However, my personal response is that, I don't want to be treated by a doctor in many years time, who doesn't even want to be in the profession, and that he's simply been pushed into the field by family pressure.
And anyway, I'm over the rejection - even though I'm disapointed with King's as a Med school. I have an offer for Bristol and UCL which I'm delighted about.
[LIST]
Someone recieved a place at the med school, when he even said to me that she won't get in he's not passionate about medicine, and that his heart is truely set on history.
If you thinks that sounds like a good admission process, then okay Kings is fantastic then! However, my personal response is that, I don't want to be treated by a doctor in many years time, who doesn't even want to be in the profession, and that he's simply been pushed into the field by family pressure.
And anyway, I'm over the rejection - even though I'm disapointed with King's as a Med school. I have an offer for Bristol and UCL which I'm delighted about.
Twinkle06
I also got rejected by them for medicine, as did most of my friends and I had ALOT of varied work experience and tried my very best at trying to get into the course. Now that i'm there doing another course, i've talked to alot of the medics and many of them already have previous degrees and alot of them have undertaken some amazing work experience, mostly due to parents/relatives already in the medical profession - stuff that people like myself would never get a chance of doing. Unfair I know but that just means I have to work that bit harder.
Regarding the topic, I think it's totally stupid! They give a dumb person like her a chance to follow her dream just because she lives in a certain area and now she's turned into a greedy cow. And as someone already mentioned - the majority of people (I'm guessing 95%) living in Lambeth are black and that is probably reflected in the course so how can she have experienced racism!
Regarding the topic, I think it's totally stupid! They give a dumb person like her a chance to follow her dream just because she lives in a certain area and now she's turned into a greedy cow. And as someone already mentioned - the majority of people (I'm guessing 95%) living in Lambeth are black and that is probably reflected in the course so how can she have experienced racism!
Not true.
I'm at King's now and in all honesty I don't know what to believe. If she experienced racism from people on her course King's cannot do anything about it if she does not tell anyone, they cannot be held responsible for things their students do to each other if they are not told. Apparently her mother is a litigation lawyer, the EMDP is not meant for people who come from middle class backgrounds like hers, I admit the system is deeply flawed especially when some of the people who get onto the course came from very good schools.
I also don't understand, why all of you are so keen to defend Kings, you really don't know the whole issue. It's obviously extremely serious, and any form of racism in the NHS needs to be stamped out.
xxAndrewxx
I also don't understand, why all of you are so keen to defend Kings, you really don't know the whole issue. It's obviously extremely serious, and any form of racism in the NHS needs to be stamped out.
You're right, but its the fact that she waited until she failed before saying anything about racism
mrneill
Not true.
I'm at King's now and in all honesty I don't know what to believe. If she experienced racism from people on her course King's cannot do anything about it if she does not tell anyone, they cannot be held responsible for things their students do to each other if they are not told. Apparently her mother is a litigation lawyer, the EMDP is not meant for people who come from middle class backgrounds like hers, I admit the system is deeply flawed especially when some of the people who get onto the course came from very good schools.
I'm at King's now and in all honesty I don't know what to believe. If she experienced racism from people on her course King's cannot do anything about it if she does not tell anyone, they cannot be held responsible for things their students do to each other if they are not told. Apparently her mother is a litigation lawyer, the EMDP is not meant for people who come from middle class backgrounds like hers, I admit the system is deeply flawed especially when some of the people who get onto the course came from very good schools.
Couldn't agree more about the flawed system!
xxAndrewxx
I also don't understand, why all of you are so keen to defend Kings, you really don't know the whole issue. It's obviously extremely serious, and any form of racism in the NHS needs to be stamped out.
To call the NHS "institutionally racist" is absurd.
[QUOTE="Toiletpaper8"]To call the NHS "institutionally racist" is absurd.[/QUOTE
I'm not sure why you have quoted "institutionally racist" as I havn't said that anywhere. If you actually read the post, hopefully you may notice that I said, if their is any form of racism - of course their might not be any, but if there was to be any form, it obviosuly serious and needs vigorous investigation!
I'm not sure why you have quoted "institutionally racist" as I havn't said that anywhere. If you actually read the post, hopefully you may notice that I said, if their is any form of racism - of course their might not be any, but if there was to be any form, it obviosuly serious and needs vigorous investigation!
Twinkle06
I also got rejected by them for medicine, as did most of my friends and I had ALOT of varied work experience and tried my very best at trying to get into the course. Now that i'm there doing another course, i've talked to alot of the medics and many of them already have previous degrees and alot of them have undertaken some amazing work experience, mostly due to parents/relatives already in the medical profession - stuff that people like myself would never get a chance of doing. Unfair I know but that just means I have to work that bit harder.
Regarding the topic, I think it's totally stupid! They give a dumb person like her a chance to follow her dream just because she lives in a certain area and now she's turned into a greedy cow. And as someone already mentioned - the majority of people (I'm guessing 95%) living in Lambeth are black and that is probably reflected in the course so how can she have experienced racism!
Regarding the topic, I think it's totally stupid! They give a dumb person like her a chance to follow her dream just because she lives in a certain area and now she's turned into a greedy cow. And as someone already mentioned - the majority of people (I'm guessing 95%) living in Lambeth are black and that is probably reflected in the course so how can she have experienced racism!
Experienced racism from the A100 students, didn't she say?
[QUOTE="xxAndrewxx"]
The person who's sueing KCL is accusing the NHS of institutional racism. I was pointing out that her claims are hence absurd.
Toiletpaper8
To call the NHS "institutionally racist" is absurd.[/QUOTE
I'm not sure why you have quoted "institutionally racist" as I havn't said that anywhere. If you actually read the post, hopefully you may notice that I said, if their is any form of racism - of course their might not be any, but if there was to be any form, it obviosuly serious and needs vigorous investigation!
I'm not sure why you have quoted "institutionally racist" as I havn't said that anywhere. If you actually read the post, hopefully you may notice that I said, if their is any form of racism - of course their might not be any, but if there was to be any form, it obviosuly serious and needs vigorous investigation!
The person who's sueing KCL is accusing the NHS of institutional racism. I was pointing out that her claims are hence absurd.
xxAndrewxx
I also don't understand, why all of you are so keen to defend Kings, you really don't know the whole issue. It's obviously extremely serious, and any form of racism in the NHS needs to be stamped out.
And you do, do you? Your rejection makes you know all so much about KCL, does it?
It's far from having amazing academics that will guarantee you a KCL A100 offer, just look at some of the rejections on here. At interview, alot of applicants with bad doctor qualities are filtered.
xxAndrewxx
I hope Kings get sued, I think it's a disgracefull med school. All they care about is how many A* you have at GCSE's and the amounts of A's at A level. Well I am talking about the A100 course that is, they need to realize that their is much more to a doctor than academic capibility! I was rejected by Kings as I 'only' had 6 A* at GCSE and a ukcat score of 610, I appealed to this decision of course, after taking a wide range of work experience ( hospice work, shadowing a Surgeon, first aid for St Johns etc) and they simply replied saying how they believed other candidates could offer more. Very convincing, considering a girl got an offer at my school, when medicine was in fact her SECOND choice. A very good admissions process to me, seeking out doctors who really want to be partt of the medical profession, and have a passion for medicine. Not. I know this sounds incredibily bitter, but you would understand if you was in my postition.
i am sorry but every university looks at your grades and ukcat, and as for the bit in bold **** happens.get over it.
Why has everyone made the assumption that she wasnt a victim of some sort of abuse? The post is here because they don't have the answers...so what makes you think that you do? I agree that the whole "i'll sue you thing" is disgraceful, and i'm sure any sum of money would help her pay the loans back, but if you put a lot of money on the line for a medical course...and you feel your studies have been disrupted because of abuse...surely you have a right to ask for the money back if you fail, which is what she's saying...
ADREAM
And you do, do you? Your rejection makes you know all so much about KCL, does it?
It's far from having amazing academics that will guarantee you a KCL A100 offer, just look at some of the rejections on here. At interview, alot of applicants with bad doctor qualities are filtered.
It's far from having amazing academics that will guarantee you a KCL A100 offer, just look at some of the rejections on here. At interview, alot of applicants with bad doctor qualities are filtered.
I do know for sure that the admission system is extremely flawed, and I even no med students at King's who are astonished by some of the people they let in! Of course this is my opinion, in which I'm entitled to have.
However of course I don't know the inns and outs of this case. Of course the girl might be saying this now as she needs an excuse for the fact that she failed her finals. However, she may telling the truth, and could indeed by a victim of racial of abuse. And if the latter is the case, then some actions need to be taken.
ManUFan
Why has everyone made the assumption that she wasnt a victim of some sort of abuse? The post is here because they don't have the answers...so what makes you think that you do? I agree that the whole "i'll sue you thing" is disgraceful, and i'm sure any sum of money would help her pay the loans back, but if you put a lot of money on the line for a medical course...and you feel your studies have been disrupted because of abuse...surely you have a right to ask for the money back if you fail, which is what she's saying...
1) that does not extend to saying in the National press - I'll sue the medical school for loss of career if I don't pass - because this is part of a systemic plot to fail me. That isn't brave or courageous, thats wrong. Finals are Finals. You have circumstances? Fine. But you cannot say that to your medical school. Its plainly laughable for a student to take Finals in this situation.
2) There is some irony in a student admitted by the College onto a course that is more or less specifically tailoured for bright but poor students, of which there is a very strong correlation with ethnic minorities - possibly it looks like at significant extra cost to ontop of even the normal medical training to then deliberately fail the graduands on the basis of racial discrimination.
3) Give the poor lass BOD - there has been discraceful systemic bullying throughout the College and her peers - well why wait til Final year?
Also, regardless of College policies, or shortcomings, you cannot force someone to be not racist if they are - its an attitude that they have to correct themselves, and they are entitled to that attitude, there is a difference between prejeudice, discrimination and racism. Now there is no excuse for discrimination, but we're all consciously or unconciously prejeudiced in some way against everyone. We may not like some people either - I'm sure everyone can think of a prime example of someone they consider to be a complete and utter ****. I'd just like to point out that it can be quite difficult to seperate the 3, often entertwined elements.
I've already talked about this at length on the nhs blog doctor site, but the low down is this:-
A girl is suing KCL because they kicked her out. She had failed both written and osces in the final year, and then her attendance was too poor in her re-sit year - (she says due to a busted knee).
She is claiming racist discrimination and malicious failing by the uni, and also has singled out 2 young doctors (supply the media with photos as well) accusing them of racist comments.
The vast majority of her complaints are easy to de-construct. Such as being 'forced to write her name on her exam paper' (which everyone does in final year), or failing her osce because 'an examiner was asleep in the chair'.
My favourite - that extended medical programme students were 'forced to wear a badge' (nice holocaust imagery, but all id badges had the course written on...)
Other complaints are always going to be a matter of her word versus another persons.
But the mainstay of her case is that kings is a racist institute that bullied her from the highest level.
Kings where the majority of students are asian.
Kings which has a programme that throws ridiculous time and money to underpriveleged local students.
With regards to her name and shame tactic she is being vindictive, and could well be libelling herself. Certainly alot of what she is saying to the media is going to be ripped to shreds in any court.
A girl is suing KCL because they kicked her out. She had failed both written and osces in the final year, and then her attendance was too poor in her re-sit year - (she says due to a busted knee).
She is claiming racist discrimination and malicious failing by the uni, and also has singled out 2 young doctors (supply the media with photos as well) accusing them of racist comments.
The vast majority of her complaints are easy to de-construct. Such as being 'forced to write her name on her exam paper' (which everyone does in final year), or failing her osce because 'an examiner was asleep in the chair'.
My favourite - that extended medical programme students were 'forced to wear a badge' (nice holocaust imagery, but all id badges had the course written on...)
Other complaints are always going to be a matter of her word versus another persons.
But the mainstay of her case is that kings is a racist institute that bullied her from the highest level.
Kings where the majority of students are asian.
Kings which has a programme that throws ridiculous time and money to underpriveleged local students.
With regards to her name and shame tactic she is being vindictive, and could well be libelling herself. Certainly alot of what she is saying to the media is going to be ripped to shreds in any court.
ADREAM
+rep
What...He gets rep out of that. Wheres my rep.
ManUFan
Why has everyone made the assumption that she wasnt a victim of some sort of abuse? The post is here because they don't have the answers...so what makes you think that you do? I agree that the whole "i'll sue you thing" is disgraceful, and i'm sure any sum of money would help her pay the loans back, but if you put a lot of money on the line for a medical course...and you feel your studies have been disrupted because of abuse...surely you have a right to ask for the money back if you fail, which is what she's saying...
A) She's only in Med school because OF KCL EMDP program
B) The goverment paid her tuition fee's, so no money out of her pocket regarding that.
C) No, if she fails its her own damn fault. Its not like the abuse is bad enough for her to not be able to study for finals (and she doesn't exactly have a strong academic history). Its not like people are raiding her dorm while shes studying.
How on Earth did she get on to the widening access course with the right grades and a lawyer mother?
One of the formites on here had an offer for the aforementioned course and one from a similar course elsewhere. They took up the other offer and are blitzing medicial school by all accounts. I think this proves that the right candidates can do amazingly well on a 6 year course. It's not really any different to providing a 6 year course for people with the right grades but disadvantaged by the wrong subjects... If a student is not up to speed by the end of the widening access year, then they might not cope. However, I think it is really important to acknowldge that a lot of people do really, really well with the right support - enough to get their knowledge up to scratch and learning new study skills. Many move away from the "stress" of their families and can go from being the one who feels responsible for their familiy to actually being able to think baout themselves and concentrate more on studying. For these reasons I think one should be careful with "inflammatory" comments about dumbing down of medicine... I have really rubbish A-Level grades and have been comfortably in the top quartile since first year (find out next week if I've passed finals) and I'm the first in my family to go to uni (and none of my sibs decided to go down that route either). Several other grads and matures on my course have very similar stories, so poor school performance really is not a good measure of potential, and medicine HAS to be about more than being a book geek brainiac..?
As for the race element. I really struggle with this one. Of course, racism is partially felt on top of the enacted element, but if the ethnic mix at KCL is anything like that at BL, and I can't see how it can differ that much, then it's a really multicultural course in a really mutlicultural element working in hospitals with a really multicultural workforce??? If KCL was an inherently racist institution and these staff members and now doctors were overtly racist, then why haven't scores of students now come out in support of this student? That's what doesn't make sense in my mind.
The thing that saddens me is the impact this will have on students studying on the EDMP, who are their because they 100% satisfy the criteria for entry. Bad publicity sticks like mud. From her statements and media reports it seems she got on to a course for which she didn't qualify on the back of not getting in to the A100 course for whatever reason. They MUST have seen something in her that they liked enough to bend the rule and afford her the priviledge of studying medicine (darn racists!)...
Oh! I don't know!!! It's all very confusing and doesn't seem to add up...
One of the formites on here had an offer for the aforementioned course and one from a similar course elsewhere. They took up the other offer and are blitzing medicial school by all accounts. I think this proves that the right candidates can do amazingly well on a 6 year course. It's not really any different to providing a 6 year course for people with the right grades but disadvantaged by the wrong subjects... If a student is not up to speed by the end of the widening access year, then they might not cope. However, I think it is really important to acknowldge that a lot of people do really, really well with the right support - enough to get their knowledge up to scratch and learning new study skills. Many move away from the "stress" of their families and can go from being the one who feels responsible for their familiy to actually being able to think baout themselves and concentrate more on studying. For these reasons I think one should be careful with "inflammatory" comments about dumbing down of medicine... I have really rubbish A-Level grades and have been comfortably in the top quartile since first year (find out next week if I've passed finals) and I'm the first in my family to go to uni (and none of my sibs decided to go down that route either). Several other grads and matures on my course have very similar stories, so poor school performance really is not a good measure of potential, and medicine HAS to be about more than being a book geek brainiac..?
As for the race element. I really struggle with this one. Of course, racism is partially felt on top of the enacted element, but if the ethnic mix at KCL is anything like that at BL, and I can't see how it can differ that much, then it's a really multicultural course in a really mutlicultural element working in hospitals with a really multicultural workforce??? If KCL was an inherently racist institution and these staff members and now doctors were overtly racist, then why haven't scores of students now come out in support of this student? That's what doesn't make sense in my mind.
The thing that saddens me is the impact this will have on students studying on the EDMP, who are their because they 100% satisfy the criteria for entry. Bad publicity sticks like mud. From her statements and media reports it seems she got on to a course for which she didn't qualify on the back of not getting in to the A100 course for whatever reason. They MUST have seen something in her that they liked enough to bend the rule and afford her the priviledge of studying medicine (darn racists!)...
Oh! I don't know!!! It's all very confusing and doesn't seem to add up...
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