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Hamas must recognise Israel

cd.thomson

My point still stands, its our westernised nations that have caused this situation. First we create "palestine" then attempt to create "israel" on top of it - of course the palestinians are going to feel they have a right to the land, as are the israelis!

Not really how it happened. You gave two people's the right to self-determination. The arab's received a sum of 87% of the mandate, the Jews 13%.

Reply 21

never killed a man

Neo Con

Fair enough but it's not really the same example is it? We all know how much emphasis the Muslims put on Shariya Law and how often they have mistreated minorities in their nation. The reasoning is because the Quran is the word of God. By that token this is the Jew's Promised Land according to the Torah. What has been done has been done. They should let go of the past to build for the future for both nations to live side by side in peace.

The arab minority is discriminated against in Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Arab#Discrimination

As long as this continues I dont think Israel can preach about tolerance.

Reply 22

cd.thomson

I'd really like to make it clear that obviously the OP has provided a sensible route to peace. I'm playing devils advocate in the sense that I don't think either group will accept this weaker position - i.e. recognise the others right to a state, when their own state is not accepted - for the reasons I've stated. I do not condone the terrorism of Hamas or the hamfisted bullying of the Israelis

Just one last thing ill say on the topic:

borismor

Did they have no other choice?

When a military and political power is funded and backed by a superpower, when israeli can afford the technology to fire flechettes into crowds of civilians and fire shells containing white phosphorous, then the only possible way to fight that kind of might is with guerilla tactics.

No it wasnt right to bomb buses.
No it wasnt right to do it during a peace process.

Did Hamas have a choice when it came to military tactics? I'm not so sure. Did the majority of palestinians want this to happen? I'm even less sure.

Reply 23

never killed a man

Axes

Not really how it happened. You gave two people's the right to self-determination. The arab's received a sum of 87% of the mandate, the Jews 13%.

But before the mandate the Arabs had 100% of the land didnt they ?

Reply 24

Axes

2

never killed a man

But before the mandate the Arabs had 100% of the land didnt they ?

Before the mandate, the Arab's had 0% of the land, it was Ottoman. Jews constituted 1-2% of the Ottoman empires population (in the middle east), and received in the end 0.5% of the land and 0% of the resources. The Arabs got a good deal it seems.

Reply 25

Axes

2

never killed a man

The arab minority is discriminated against in Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Arab#Discrimination

As long as this continues I dont think Israel can preach about tolerance.

There's discrimination in every country, using that standard, no one should recognize any country.

Reply 26

leeber

4

never killed a man

But before the mandate the Arabs had 100% of the land didnt they ?

AFAIK it was part of the Ottoman empire and before that the Romans, anyway this is all besides the point, supposed to be focusing on how to resolve the situation not the mistakes that have been made in the past.

Reply 27

SunderX

14

never killed a man

But before the mandate the Arabs had 100% of the land didnt they ?

To be fair enough, a few million years ago dinosaurs had 100% of the land.

Reply 28

leeber

4

never killed a man

The arab minority is discriminated against in Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Arab#Discrimination

As long as this continues I dont think Israel can preach about tolerance.

The arabs are guaranteed their rights in the law, on the same basis that the jews are in Israel. The state is not discriminatory, the people may be but you can't blame Israel for this. By your standards we from the UK definately can't talk, look at the way ethnic minorities are treated here.

Reply 29

never killed a man

Axes

There's discrimination in every country, using that standard, no one should recognize any country.

I think in most countries there is no systematic discrimnation against a particular race. e.g UK ? US ? France ? Germany ? Japan ? Brazil ?

Quotes such as

"According to a 2005 study at Hebrew University, three times more money was invested in education of Jewish children as in Arab children."

could not have been written about any race in any western country today IMO.

The situation looks simular to that of the US before WW2, where funding for services for black people was substantially less.

Reply 30

never killed a man

leeber

The arabs are guaranteed their rights in the law, on the same basis that the jews are in Israel. The state is not discriminatory, the people may be but you can't blame Israel for this. By your standards we from the UK definately can't talk, look at the way ethnic minorities are treated here.

The Israeli gov does discriminate through lower funding for services for Arabs (see link in pervious post).

Reply 31

borismor

3

never killed a man

The arab minority is discriminated against in Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Arab#Discrimination

As long as this continues I dont think Israel can preach about tolerance.

Oh, becuase there's no discrimination against Muslims in the UK, right? :shifty:

Hamas must recognise Israel

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