This discussion is now closed.

Check out other Related discussions

Transsexuals.

MALIK HAMID

Transsexuals effectively self-mutilate in order to be able to live a lie and anyone behaving in this way clearly has severe psychological problems no matter what they or others believe.

Many don't actually have surgery or "self-mutilate" in any way. They'd also be living more of a lie if they chose to stay in a body they didn't feel comfortable in, by not being true to themselves.

Yes, psychological problems are also prevalent in many as it's pretty damn distressing and some peoples attitudes only add to their problems. But I don't believe identifying with another gender is a psychological problem as such. Gender is a social construct after all. Having to live with knowing you're in the wrong body isn't easy, let alone telling your mother that you identify as the opposite gender.

Reply 41

km31

11

MALIK HAMID

Transsexuals are absolutely the gender that they are born, no matter what a person does or says they can not change their gender. If I found out that a partner was born a man I would be absolutely disgusted, in fact their are not words strong enough to describe how disgusted I would be. Transsexuals effectively self-mutilate in order to be able to live a lie and anyone behaving in this way clearly has severe psychological problems no matter what they or others believe.

Ok...clearly you know nothing about the subject but still have formed your own opinions, so i'm guessing you wont be persuaded otherwise.

But i think you should just know (it has been mentioned several times though)
Sex = male or female, genetically determined
Gender = social construct

There are physical hormonal differences between a transexual born as a male and a regular male.
The transexual is not "self-mutilating to live a lie", they are trapped in the lie, their whole life is a lie, because they ARE females with the physical appearance of males/vice versa.

Can you not possibly stretch your imagine to how that would feel???

Reply 42

Apocalypte

12

Sex is what's between your legs and in your chromosomes, gender is what's in your head. For trans* people, the two do not match up - and hormones, therapy and surgery are used to try and reconcile the two.

Reply 43

Frodz

11

Ignoramus

Have you not confused sex with gender here? Sex = biological, Gender = social.

No, because I believe both terms are in reality one in the same!

Even in the sociological sense gender is partly biological, it is not a totally social construct. That is just a dogma held by people who want gender to mean more than it actually does.

Reply 44

username196545

19

terpineol

When you say gender they are born its a bit of an odd one, I assume you mean in terms of their external genitalia at birth, in which case I would have to say one is the gender one dies with, or aspires to die with.

I would probably be slightly freaked out were I to find out a partner wasn't born a woman, I'm not entirely sure why though.

On that note we had a cheese and wine a year or so back from a surgeon who does a lot of the MTF changes, he had a couple of patients who had been married for years without their partners knowing.

Didn't they wonder about their partners childhoods, or family, or what if one of them wanted kids...? :s-smilie:

Reply 45

a_t

16

terpineol

On that note we had a cheese and wine a year or so back from a surgeon who does a lot of the MTF changes, he had a couple of patients who had been married for years without their partners knowing.

I think this sort of behaviour is disgusting and morally abhorrent

Transgender people should be upfront before any sort of consummation rather than inflicting their lie of a life upon innocent and unsuspecting people

The fact that people do this really grinds my gears

Besides wouldn't a man get surprised at a woman who is incapable of getting wet, like ever?

Either way I wouldn't want anything to do with such confused and deceitful people

Reply 46

dbmag9

15

Can't really add much to the discussion beyond what's been said already: gender and sex are not the same thing, and it's gender that's the more important one in my opinion. The issue becomes a tad more complicated as regards relationships, because people who identify as 'attracted to men' (or women) tend to mean 'men' in both sex and gender (I want a boyfriend who identifies as male, but also has a penis).

I think this is an issue where a lot of the less tolerant opinions are formed by lack of knowledge, or an inability to imagine how being trans must feel, rather than fully understanding the issue and rejecting people. I've met quite a few trans people, and they didn't seem mentally ill to me. It's worth evaluating whether a so-called 'mental illness' with only one symptom that's not necessarily harmful is really an 'illness' at all.

In any case, this topic's been done to death already: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=948770

Reply 47

rajandkwameali

2

i think it's a bit weird actually, but live and let live.

Reply 48

rockyone2

9

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ACJL41x3QE

now thats ****** up

Reply 49

Drew_

TheJudge

They are the gender they were born as. I also think it should be considered rape if a transexual tricks someone into having sex with them under the illusion they are a desired gender when they are not.

I completely agree with this.

Reply 50

Psyk

16

TheJudge

A tranny duping a straight man into havign sexual relations with them is a rapist. That is a form of rape.

If a man told a woman he had lots of money to get her to have sex with him, but it was a lie and he was actually poor, would that be rape?

In this country at least, I don't think you need to be aware of all the facts for consent to count. And you can't withdraw consent after the act has taken place.

Reply 51

Drew_

Psyk

If a man told a woman he had lots of money to get her to have sex with him, but it was a lie and he was actually poor, would that be rape?

In this country at least, I don't think you need to be aware of all the facts for consent to count. And you can't withdraw consent after the act has taken place.

That is not the same and you know it.

Perhaps it is not exactly rape because there would be initial consent, but it is something and that something should be on the same level as rape.

I am a straight man, and a straight man who only wants to sleep with women. By women, i mean women that were born women. A man, who has changed into a women, who then dupes me into a sexual encounter is, in my mind, duping me into a homosexual encounter that i would in no way choose to have in any other circumstances.

Reply 52

daveywavey

2

I believe it's the gender they choose/feel. I've heard that transexuals feel they were born in the wrong body and they feel like they should be the opposite gender. I entirely believe in that - after all, it wouldn't be nice to disregard how somebody feels and if they feel like that, they should be free to change sex.

Live and let live.

Reply 53

Psyk

16

Drew_

That is not the same and you know it.

Why is it not the same?

For some reason it doesn't seem like the same thing, but I can't put my finger on a logical, objective reason why it's not the same.

Reply 54

Drew_

Psyk

Why is it not the same?

For some reason it doesn't seem like the same thing, but I can't put my finger on a logical, objective reason why it's not the same.

As i said before, it isn't really rape as you have initially consented to have sex with a female. When you find out he/she is in fact not female, does that then revoke your initial consent so that rape can be charged?

If not, then a law should be created to allow for a rape-like charge to be brought against transsexuals who dupe their former sex into a sexual encounter.

Not that it is likely to happen, but i would consider a transsexual duping me into sex worse than a woman raping me.

Reply 55

Psyk

16

Drew_

As i said before, it isn't really rape as you have initially consented to have sex with a female. When you find out he/she is in fact not female, does that then revoke your initial consent so that rape can be charged?

If not, then a law should be created to allow for a rape-like charge to be brought against transsexuals who dupe their former sex into a sexual encounter.

Not that it is likely to happen, but i would consider a transsexual duping me into sex worse than a woman raping me.

No I meant why is them lying about previously being a man different to pretending to be rich in order to get a woman to sleep with you? In fact in some ways lying about being rich is worse, since a mtf transexual probably wouldn't explicitly lie to you, they just wouldn't tell you they used to be a man.

Reply 56

Drew_

Psyk

No I meant why is them lying about previously being a man different to pretending to be rich in order to get a woman to sleep with you? In fact in some ways lying about being rich is worse, since a mtf transexual probably wouldn't explicitly lie to you, they just wouldn't tell you they used to be a man.

Because sexual preference doesnt normally extend to people's wallet size.

Not telling you that they used to be a man is duping you into a homosexual encounter. If anyone did that to me, they would be extremely sorry.