Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing?

Globalist communist detected.

Member of the Tory party, actually...

what infrastructure projects? Like the new forth bridge? The 30% of renewables spending or the £700 million tram in Edinburgh?

Absolute nonsense. In the previous attempts, in all bar one the Scottish commissioners were the enthusiastic side. The English commissioners saw little value to themselves in the transaction.

As for nobles 'selling out', a load of tripe. They saw the manifest advantages of union and went along with it.



Yet it likely would have. Access to imperial markets was the main driving force of Scotland's economic success.

That's absurd to a level that even Jim Sillars would blush at. There is no way on earth an independent Scotland will not inherit a portion of national debt save it being paid up by the UK in exchange for some negotiated concession.

You aren't proud of an accident by birth yet you want to be able to inherit all your parent's money? Hypocrite detected.

Since when did the Scottish commissioners speak for the people? The first attempt was by James VI to try and cover up his bigamy. The people of Scotland and England were against it.

I disagree. There is precedent for separating from a country and not carrying any of the debt.

Ah, but I never said I'm proud of it.



We lived in a pre-democratic society. No institutions represented the people. Scotland itself was certainly not formed democratically, nor were its four predecessor kingdoms. Not a single government action was brought about my popular consent in those days.



To be honest, they'd have been bankrupted and the Scottish economy and social order would've been brought to its knees otherwise. It wasn't, as some have attempted to suggest, some sort of bribe.



Which?



Absurd rubbish.

I really struggle to see what the nats want to be 'independent' from? MP's in Scotland have just an equal say in running the country as any other. It's not like there one cohesive unit anyway, the MP for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk is no less likely to co-operate with the MP for Glasgow North than he is the MP for Sevenoaks.

As someone who lives about 10 miles from the border I can tell you there is no real difference between England & Scotland, and I have traveled about in both. Its mad how a simple rivalry no different than the banter between Yorkshire and Lancashire has progressed this far. Devolution was one of the worst things Blair did to this country, rather than suppress nationalism it gave idiots like Salmond a platform much bigger than they deserve with their 6 Westminster MP's.

The whole nationalist campaign is sentimental, anti-Tory, anti-English nonsense, hence its appeal to both disaffected lefties and idiotic, racist chavs. Salmond's promises often contradict his earlier commitments or are simply lies, the EU will not just allow Scotland to rejoin, neither will NATO, both things he goes on about.

The big elephant in the room is that this referendum is not binding. If by some miracle the nats win the PM should just tell them to shove it.

I'm British and I don't want my country split in two

Well done, you've quoted a treaty to which the UK is not a state party (only a handful of countries are) and which has never entered into force. You might as well quote a Bill that was dropped at first reading.

Moreover, check the definition of a "newly independent state". It only applies to something which was formerly "a dependent territory". Scotland is not.

So yeah, you've not only quoted a treaty that was not in force, you've quoted a treaty that doesn't even make your point. Game, set and match, I suspect. If you're going to try pulling that sort of amateur pseudo-legal stuff, I'd suggest you don't do it on an academic forum where people like me, you know, have degrees in this sort of thing.

And once again, which new states have emerged from a larger state without either inheriting national debt or having it bargained away as part of an agreement?

Oh, and "next..."

How is the lack of self-determination a "perceived" wrong?

How? So that even more of our jobs and economy can go to the Southeast?

Plenty of people are debating that, just look through some of the replies in this thread. Of course it can. The question is, can it be more successful without the UK and the answer is yes.

Fiscal, Monetary and Political Union for vastly different economies, societies and cultures can never work. The EU should only be about co-operating on issues that benefit all countries involved. Currently this is impossible. These are similar reasons as to why many Scots want independence from the UK.

You seem to believe that Westminster will just decide what the terms will be and that is final. This is a fantasy.

Exactly. And the SNP are happy to change us being the voice of 5.5 million in the UK out of 65 Million, to 5.5 million in a population of 332 milion in the Eurozone.

Plenty of people are debating that, just look through some of the replies in this thread. Of course it can. The question is, can it be more successful without the UK and the answer is yes.

We have a devolved parliament. That's more than most of the UK has.

HS2 is a follow on from HS1. There is a European wide High Speed Rail network that it will benefit us all if we get connected to it. They've already made the link between the continent and the UK in HS1, also known as the Channel Tunnel.

No it's a bit difficult to start a High Speed Rail network the other end of the country. It makes sense to go from the channel Tunnel out.

Of course the SNP know this, but it's much better to just whinge about it and portray the English getting one over is.

Not according to the SNPs own internal communications we won't be.

http://b.3cdn.net/better/c1d14076ee08022eec_u9m6vd74f.pdf

Exactly. And the SNP are happy to change us being the voice of 5.5 million in the UK out of 65 Million, to 5.5 million in a population of 332 milion in the Eurozone.

Wait. So you are suggesting that Scotland will determine the terms of settlement and that is final? Surely that is fantasy?

Everything will be up for negotiation, and it is with these negotiations things will be settled not before independence.

How can you be so confident when there is so much uncertainty, with the result of independence. For starters, the European Union membership is one, if you have to renegotiation membership and lose your portion of the rebate then people in Scotland will lose out.