President Obama authorises air-strikes on Islamist barbarians

Original post by Osnaz

Don't worry. The world only cares when Israel accidentally kills civilians :smile:

This dude speaks the truth :smile:

+1 Gem and Followed, Sir Osnaz =) Couldn't agree with you more

Reply 21

Original post by MostUncivilised

This dude speaks the truth :smile:

+1 Gem and Followed, Sir Osnaz =) Couldn't agree with you more

It isn't true. There's been huge criticism of US (and other) forces in Afghanistan and Iraq for killing civilians over the years.

Reply 22

Original post by Fullofsurprises

- this is not Gaza and the equivalence being drawn between ISIS and Hamas by some is a stretch

It's not entirely a stretch. Both organisations want to murder gay people simply for their sexuality, both organisations believe women are lesser beings. Both organisations have decimated the ancient Christian communities in the areas they control.

Israel is at least partly responsible for the current overall situation through decades of systematic mistreatment of the Palestinians

The primary responsibility for the current Palestinian situation lies with Egypt and Jordan. Egypt controlled Gaza in 1967 before the Six Day War, and Jordan controlled the West Bank. Israel did not want war with Egypt, and it begged King Hussein of Jordan to stay his hand, not to attack and they would do likewise. Unfortunately the hatred of Jews outstripped their military sense, and they attacked and got their arses handed to them

- just because ISIS are bad does not make Syria (or Iraq) good.

Indeed. But it provides a marvellous indictment of hypocritical Western leftists (and I say this as a socialist). Leftists say, in respect of Syria, that we cannot ignore the Islamist orientation of the rebellion, that Assad protects Christians and religious minorities, and so on. And yet, when it comes to Hamas, they turn that on its head and suport the Islamist terrorists who are destroying Christian communities. Especially given Syria involves about 100 times as many Muslim civilian deaths as Gaza. One must question why they become so histrionic when it involves Israel, the only Jewish country in the world

Reply 23

Original post by Fullofsurprises

It isn't true. There's been huge criticism of US (and other) forces in Afghanistan and Iraq for killing civilians over the years.

I must disagree. Osnaz is correct; friends from whom I've never heard a peep on Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq suddenly became extremely worked up when the Je... I mean, Israelis, engaged in a counter-terrorist retaliation.

It is more than fair to question their motives, and whether they are anti-semitic hypocrites

Reply 24

samba

6

Original post by Marky Mark

Why don't they bomb Israel while they're at it as well?

Maybe they should bomb Russia too m8?

Reply 25

Original post by Snagprophet

This is excellent news. I feel our military assistance should be limited to air strikes, not ground troops. It's nice to see some positive effect of the US military. I'd imagine this should connote the relief the 40,000 Yezidi feel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhnUgAaea4M

Completely agree with you dude.

The Yezidi have had a really rough time throughout history, they have quite Gnostic religious beliefs and were accused by the Ottomans of being devil worshipers, so they suffered terrible persecution.

They are an ancient and proud religion; admittedly, quite different from Islam or Christianity, but that doesn't mean they deserve to be murdered. They should be protected, it would be a terrible loss to humanity to lose their cultural heritage

Reply 26

Original post by MostUncivilised

I must disagree. Osnaz is correct; friends from whom I've never heard a peep on Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq suddenly became extremely worked up when the Je... I mean, Israelis, engaged in a counter-terrorist retaliation.

It is more than fair to question their motives, and whether they are anti-semitic hypocrites

I was speaking generally; the Guardian, which I presume you would recognise as a liberal, left-leaning news source, has carried many, many articles about the civilian casualty levels in Afghanistan and Iraq.

It would actually be hypocritical to ignore the civilian death rate in Gaza just because we happen to be sympathetic to Israel, which many of us are - we just choose to not leave our powers of objectivity in the locker because it's Israel, that's all.

However, I accept that a particular part of the British Left, let's call it the Galloway tendency, is very anti-semitic and uses hate of Israel as a subtext for that. I don't side with them and neither should any member of the Left who has half a brain.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 27

Lukec95

And no one will criticise the deaths of civilians. One thing for Israel, another for everyone else. Blatant antisemetism

Reply 28

Original post by Fullofsurprises

I was speaking generally; the Guardian, which I presume you would recognise as a liberal, left-leaning news source, has carried many, many articles about the civilian casualty levels in Afghanistan and Iraq.

The level of coverage of the Gaza conflict is out of proportion to anything else this year. You must admit, it is the biggest news story of the year, despite the fact that many more Syrians have been killed in the Civil War there than have Gazans been killed as a result of the immorality of the Hamas terrorists.

It would actually be hypocritical to ignore the civilian death rate in Gaza

Okay, you want to talk about civilian death rate? The UN says that 1800 Palestinians have been killed, of which approx 500 were militants from Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and 1300 were civilians. That's about a 2.5 to 1 / civilian to militant death rate. For urban warfare, that is not some crazily disproportionate figure, that is actually pretty typical for urban warfare. So to call is disproportionate is either to exhibit profound ignorance of modern warfare, or to demonstrate an uncaring and dismissive determination to label Israelis as evil baby-killing murderers who love to snuff out the lives of children, no matter what.

However, I accept that a particular part of the British Left, let's call it the Galloway tendency, is very anti-semitic and uses hate of Israel as a subtext for that. I don't side with them and neither should any member of the Left who has half a brain

And what do you think of the portion of the British left for whom every argument they make in favour of Assad could apply to Israel? (except, of course, that Assad has killed 100 times as many Muslims)

Reply 29

Lukec95

Original post by Fullofsurprises

It isn't true. There's been huge criticism of US (and other) forces in Afghanistan and Iraq for killing civilians over the years.

It isn't? During the Gaza conflict more people have died at the hands of ISIS and other militant groups (in more barbaric ways) yet what has dominated the media and internet -Israel, Israel and Israel. Get used to it ISIS have to kill around 20 million civilians to be considered half worse than Israel.

Reply 30

Budgie99

2

I don't think USA will do any better than before tbh

Reply 31

Original post by Lukec95

It isn't? During the Gaza conflict more people have died at the hands of ISIS and other militant groups (in more barbaric ways) yet what has dominated the media and internet -Israel, Israel and Israel. Get used to it ISIS have to kill around 20 million civilians to be considered half worse than Israel.

Not sure which programmes you watch, but there was immense coverage of the Syria conflict and its impact on civilians. I think you're confusing 'current' news with 'dominant' news. Israel/Gaza has replaced Syria/Iraq in the top stories since it started, but that doesn't make it a long term trend. Arguably the main news channels are right to prioritise it as well, because many see the Israel/Palestine situation as underlying many Middle East tensions, rightly or wrongly.

Reply 32

How Are You?

6

Original post by young_guns

President Obama has authorised airstrikes against the ISIS horde to protect the 40,000 Yezidi stuck on Mount Sinjar. The ISIS horde has surrounded them and told them they must convert or die (I suppose ISIS is acting very much in accordance with the actions of the Prophet Mohammed). President Obama quoted an Iraqi woman, "Earlier this week, one Iraqi said no-one is coming to help. Well, today, America is coming to help". I believe this is a totally justified and positive use of American military power, to protect an ancient religious minority whose religion is older than Christianity and Islam (I think they worship Mithra, who was worshipped in Roman times). The destructive hatred of the ISIS horde reminds me of the Islamist barbarians in Africa who burned the Library of Timbuktu.

Those terrorists are brutal and they need to be punished. But they aren't following Prophet Mohammed. Stop sprouting crap like this.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 33

Original post by MostUncivilised

And what do you think of the portion of the British left for whom every argument they make in favour of Assad could apply to Israel? (except, of course, that Assad has killed 100 times as many Muslims)

Who are you talking about? I don't know any left wing people who support Assad. Are you confusing the vote not to intervene in Syria with support for Assad by any chance?

Reply 34

Original post by Fullofsurprises

Who are you talking about? I don't know any left wing people who support Assad. Are you confusing the vote not to intervene in Syria with support for Assad by any chance?

So you're saying you haven't heard left-wing people say that, for all his faults, Assad protects the Christians and religious minorities, and the rebels are Islamic extremists? If you're claiming not to have heard that.... I don't know, honestly

Reply 35

Original post by MostUncivilised

So you're saying you haven't heard left-wing people say that, for all his faults, Assad protects the Christians and religious minorities, and the rebels are Islamic extremists? If you're claiming not to have heard that.... I don't know, honestly

I've heard a mixture of people say things like that. In the Parliamentary debate, there seemed to be a scatter of MPs in different parts of the House who expressed that kind of view. I wouldn't say it was confined to Labour, if that's what you mean. I am excluding Gallobore from my coverage, as he's generally a stuck tape recorder.

Incidentally, where I definitely have heard that view is on US channels from pundits on Fox. I also heard Blair say something along those lines, but I don't regard him as even vaguely 'left'.

That said, surely you would agree that objectively there is some truth to the statement? After all, as in Iraq, the brutal dictatorship kept down all kinds of potential insurgencies, including the Islamist ones.

Reply 36

broscience123

They should authorise air strikes again the Zionists who have been persecuting the Palestinians for decades, next.

Reply 37

broscience123