engineers > scientists > doctors > lawyers > everyone else

Without lawyers we would not have a society at all.

Without accountants no organisation would work.

I think my ordering was actually completely wrong, it should be:

lawyers > accountants > engineers > scientists

You actually don't really need scientists as such, they're just theoretical engineers. They make engineering more efficient, and maybe shouldn't be classed separately at all, but trial and error by dumber engineers would get there eventually.

Doctors make you live to 81 rather than 76 if you are lucky. They are about useful as the insurance industry, which is pretty useful, but certainly not a society-breaking loss.

It is not much of a flame war. I have calmly given reasons for one ranking, and others have pointed out that how upset these reasons make them.

Doctors are literally society breaking, they've been around thousands of years and without them people would dying left right and centre, dead people that would've benefited society.

I guess I could say the same to you. We are just calmly giving reasons too

Some are, which is fine. Others are kicking and screaming and saying I am a meanie poo-poo head. I haven't said anything like that to anyone.

What is your point? I have never anywhere said that individual lawyers are vital, but rather the profession as a whole. If lawyers died slightly earlier then society would still function but if there were no lawyers at all it would not.

I've only come in part-way through this discussion, but to clarify: are you making the case that medical professionals are not fundamental to the maintenance of a liveable society?

Doctors, yes.

Well, this isn't exactly what you've been saying all along. Here is what you said to me initially:
**




I think there is a distinction to be drawn between a society which fundamentally functions (which is what you are now talking about) and a society which is liveable (which is what you were talking about when we first began this exchange). I would probably agree that, if doctors ceased to exist tomorrow, although a lot of people would fall ill for longer and with greater severity than necessary and some people would die off completely, society would still basically work. But does that make it liveable?*

That "basic scientific research" could be done by anyone; doctors, engineers, physicists, mathematicians etc.

If lawyers ceased to exist tomorrow society would collapse and people would be burning their furnishing for heat and eating one another within a few months.

That doesn't really answer my question.*

It's also highly dubious, though that's another matter. *

A society in which you had a small but finite chance of dying of something improbable is liveable to the extent that current society is liveable.

But if you get a heart valve disease, who does the operation to save your life ?

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I think you're ruling out quite a large margin of suffering by assuming that a society where most people continue living is similarly liveable.

I have a masters in engineering and everyone seems to look down on engineers in the UK. Although it is probably one of the hardest subjects to study, the pay isnt great for it (in the UK). Lawyers, doctors and dentists can quite easily earn six figure salaries once they are well into their career but engineers would be VERY lucky to reach £50k