phd in Physics with an engineering background?

OP

thefish_uk

There's a lot of overlap in certain areas between Engineering / Physics / CompSci / Maths. My electronics supervisor in 1st/2nd year used to be an engineer but now lectures physics (I don't know which he did his PhD in though). Also a guy I know who's a computer scientist is becoming a member of the engineering department for his PhD because they're the ones willing to fund him. So if you're planning on doing something that follows on from your engineering background, but happens to be researched by the physics department, I don't see why there'd be a problem as people often find their particular specialism is researched within a different department. Or are you planning on picking up something that is completely different from your previous study? Could you take a Masters in the relevant area to ease the transition?

I guess the reason there's no information on the internet is because it depends on the research group... an electrical one would be welcoming of engineering graduates, a theoretical one might not (but would appreciate mathematicians) or something.

I don't claim to be an expert on this, I am just a lowly undergrad!

hi there,
thanks for your reply. I am planning to study Particle physics or Astro-physics which is a far cry from what we study in Engineering. I have had an informal chat with one of my dept lecturers however, and he says it should be fine for me to apply for a postgrad in physics (no matter what dispcipline) as long as I hold a first or 2:1. I would avoid doing an additional year of Masters if I can, cos not only it's something that'll require addional fees and a year, but also, it probably is something similar to phd and less deatiled. also, if i intend to a phd in the discipline (physics) later on, what are the chances of me being abel to upgrade my masters (and therefore do only 2 years of phd than the minimum 3)???

Reply 3

thefish_uk

14

serious_bits25

what are the chances of me being abel to upgrade my masters (and therefore do only 2 years of phd than the minimum 3)???

I think a lot of people do a masters as a stepping stone to a PhD so they can quit if it's not for them but still get a qualification out of it.

Also I think no PhD student I know at Cambridge has taken only 3 years for the PhD... it takes some of them maybe 5 or 6?

Reply 4

im so academic

15

thefish_uk

There's a lot of overlap in certain areas between Engineering / Physics / CompSci / Maths. My electronics supervisor in 1st/2nd year used to be an engineer but now lectures physics (I don't know which he did his PhD in though). Also a guy I know who's a computer scientist is becoming a member of the engineering department for his PhD because they're the ones willing to fund him. So if you're planning on doing something that follows on from your engineering background, but happens to be researched by the physics department, I don't see why there'd be a problem as people often find their particular specialism is researched within a different department. Or are you planning on picking up something that is completely different from your previous study? Could you take a Masters in the relevant area to ease the transition?

I guess the reason there's no information on the internet is because it depends on the research group... an electrical one would be welcoming of engineering graduates, a theoretical one might not (but would appreciate mathematicians) or something.

I don't claim to be an expert on this, I am just a lowly undergrad!

What about the reverse? I.e. an MSci in Physics --> PhD into Engineering?

Also, do you get to choose how many years do you want your PhD to last for?

And also, is it OK to switch disciplines? E.g. MEng in Chemical Engineering ----> PhD in Mechanical Engineering?

Reply 5

OP

thefish_uk

I think a lot of people do a masters as a stepping stone to a PhD so they can quit if it's not for them but still get a qualification out of it.

Also I think no PhD student I know at Cambridge has taken only 3 years for the PhD... it takes some of them maybe 5 or 6?

I know that a student enrolled for a phd can downgrade it to a masters after the 1st or 2nd year if the assessing board feels that his work isn't detailed enough. but is vice versa also possible? I have known friends (not at cambridge uni though, but other uk universities) who have done masters and then start their phd right from the beginning. and i have always known phd to be a minimum of 3 years(full-time) or more (5 or 6) if done part-time. are phds in cambridge 5 to 6 years even if done full-time? still sounds ok :woo:

as long as i find a means to fund myself which i think would be harder given tht i am classed overseas :s-smilie:

Reply 6

serious_bits25

Hi all,
Please help shed some light on this, as I cannot fiind any appropriate information on the matter on the postgrad physics webpages in the Cambridge University website.

Alright, as the title puts it, I want to go for a phd in Physics (Elementary or Astro) and am currently to be in my final year this year (I am doing a BEng in Aerospace). I am expecting to graduate with an overall first (71 or 72%). So the problem is if my engineering background going to hinder my chances of securing a place for phd for Physics? Also, when it comes to financial help ORSAS (as I am classed as overseas for fees status) will it make me look unfavourable cos of the fact that I havent a bachelors in Physics?

If anyone out there know something that would be relevant to my situation/problem, please help! thanks!

To do a PhD in Particle Physics at Cambridge surely you would need to do the Part III in Maths.
I'm pretty sure you will need a masters. How are you planning to research things that you don't even know the basics of?

Reply 7

thefish_uk

14

im so academic

What about the reverse? I.e. an MSci in Physics --> PhD into Engineering?

Also, do you get to choose how many years do you want your PhD to last for?

And also, is it OK to switch disciplines? E.g. MEng in Chemical Engineering ----> PhD in Mechanical Engineering?

I really don't know as I'm an undergraduate and haven't even looked into doing postgrad! I'm only repeating stories of things I've seen / people I know on here because it's better than nothing. The people I've spoken to who are doing / have done PhDs tend to take an "It'll be done when it's done" type attitude as they don't actually know how long it's going to take, particularly when they submit and might have to end up doing corrections.

If youre doing something that could just as easily be classed as Chemical or Mechanical then surely which department it comes under is just a matter of administration / exactly which pot of money your funding comes from. But as for taking up something completely new I really don't know, but it does seem silly (as pointed out by Sooz) that you could be expected do research on something which you haven't properly studied and might not even be able to understand given the maths involved. Unless you want to spend a very long time doing your PhD, but surely that's going to be an issue for whoever you want to get funding from as they need to be confident they're actually going to get results!

Maybe the OP is getting mixed up and thinks a PhD is just the name for the degree you do after your first one, without realising it is building upon three or four years of study done already. It does sound analagous to trying to do a degree in maths when in fact you haven't studied the subject since year 9 for example...

Reply 8

Scipio90

http://www.ast.cam.ac.uk/teaching/postgrad/#raps suggests you'd need to do a master's in physics first, for astrophysics anyway.

Reply 9

OP

thefish_uk

I really don't know as I'm an undergraduate and haven't even looked into doing postgrad! I'm only repeating stories of things I've seen / people I know on here because it's better than nothing. The people I've spoken to who are doing / have done PhDs tend to take an "It'll be done when it's done" type attitude as they don't actually know how long it's going to take, particularly when they submit and might have to end up doing corrections.

If youre doing something that could just as easily be classed as Chemical or Mechanical then surely which department it comes under is just a matter of administration / exactly which pot of money your funding comes from. But as for taking up something completely new I really don't know, but it does seem silly (as pointed out by Sooz) that you could be expected do research on something which you haven't properly studied and might not even be able to understand given the maths involved. Unless you want to spend a very long time doing your PhD, but surely that's going to be an issue for whoever you want to get funding from as they need to be confident they're actually going to get results!

Maybe the OP is getting mixed up and thinks a PhD is just the name for the degree you do after your first one, without realising it is building upon three or four years of study done already. It does sound analagous to trying to do a degree in maths when in fact you haven't studied the subject since year 9 for example...

I think u maybe right about this relevance between bachelors and phd. however, my opinion about doing a bachelors in one field and doing a phd in some different (although not altogether different fiedl) stems from what my personal tutor at uni told me. He said he supervises several lads who have come done a bachelors in Physics and now doing a phd in Aerospace Engineering. So i think its quite possible because if you look at the two subjects, they have the same underlying concepts: mathematical analysis, critical thinking, etc. Physics is a major beckground requirement to suceed in engineering! So yes, in a way they are inter-dependant and relevant to each other. Also, in undergrad Physics course there is no specialision such as Bachelors in Particle Physics and although there are Bachelors in Astrophysics in some unis, if someone who's done a bachelors in Astrophysics wanted to do research/phd in Particle physics its not something he wouldnt be allowed to do! Also, its a well known fac that a lot of physics grads seeks jobs in accounting etc, and engineers can work as lawyers (with further qualification ofcourse) after they have their engineering degree. so i don't think it's all that impossible to switch to switch. My question , however, is it possible to do at a top university such as Cambridge?? will cambridge be hesistant to take me in given that i have a different background to the subject i want to re-search in? will the scholarship bodies look at me unfavourably?

Reply 10

OP

Scipio90

http://www.ast.cam.ac.uk/teaching/postgrad/#raps suggests you'd need to do a master's in physics first, for astrophysics anyway.

"All students must obtain the equivalent of a UK upper second class 4-year undergraduate honours degree, however, competition for Ph.D. places is such that offers of admission are made almost exclusively to students who hold, or are expected to receive a 1st class honours degree, or equivalent."
Masters is classed as postgrad, only bachelors is referred to as undergrad. so a four-year undergard degree would be referring to one-year foundation (maybe??)??? Also, most Eng degrees including the one tht I am doing comes with the title BEng in Aerospace (Hons).......... now I am confused!! :confused:

Reply 11

Scipio90

serious_bits25

I think u maybe right about this relevance between bachelors and phd. however, my opinion about doing a bachelors in one field and doing a phd in some different (although not altogether different fiedl) stems from what my personal tutor at uni told me. He said he supervises several lads who have come done a bachelors in Physics and now doing a phd in Aerospace Engineering. So i think its quite possible because if you look at the two subjects, they have the same underlying concepts: mathematical analysis, critical thinking, etc. Physics is a major beckground requirement to suceed in engineering! So yes, in a way they are inter-dependant and relevant to each other. Also, in undergrad Physics course there is no specialision such as Bachelors in Particle Physics and although there are Bachelors in Astrophysics in some unis, if someone who's done a bachelors in Astrophysics wanted to do research/phd in Particle physics its not something he wouldnt be allowed to do! Also, its a well known fac that a lot of physics grads seeks jobs in accounting etc, and engineers can work as lawyers (with further qualification ofcourse) after they have their engineering degree. so i don't think it's all that impossible to switch to switch. My question , however, is it possible to do at a top university such as Cambridge?? will cambridge be hesistant to take me in given that i have a different background to the subject i want to re-search in? will the scholarship bodies look at me unfavourably?

I don't think it's as easy as you think. If you've done a physics degree and chosen options with a lot of fluid mechanics (for example), you might be able to do research in aerospace engineering, but you're not going to be able to do a PhD in something you've never studied. Points about lawyers and accountants are irrelevant, really, and in both those cases you'd have to study the subject and pass more exams before you could actually qualify. To address another of your points, someone with a specialised physics degree might have more trouble converting to another specialism than someone who did a general degree.

serious_bits25

Masters is classed as postgrad, only bachelors is referred to as undergrad. so a four-year undergard degree would be referring to one-year foundation (maybe??)??? Also, most Eng degrees including the one tht I am doing comes with the title BEng in Aerospace (Hons).......... now I am confused!! :confused:

No, that's referring to an integrated undergraduate master's, which is a 4-year course that's broadly equivalent to a 3-year undergraduate and a separate master's.

Reply 12

whiplash

10

serious_bits25

"All students must obtain the equivalent of a UK upper second class 4-year undergraduate honours degree, however, competition for Ph.D. places is such that offers of admission are made almost exclusively to students who hold, or are expected to receive a 1st class honours degree, or equivalent."
Masters is classed as postgrad, only bachelors is referred to as undergrad. so a four-year undergard degree would be referring to one-year foundation (maybe??)??? Also, most Eng degrees including the one tht I am doing comes with the title BEng in Aerospace (Hons).......... now I am confused!! :confused:

No, it means the 4 year M. Eng. Which is why I presume the equivalent would be a B. Eng + Masters.

Reply 13

serious_bits25

"All students must obtain the equivalent of a UK upper second class 4-year undergraduate honours degree, however, competition for Ph.D. places is such that offers of admission are made almost exclusively to students who hold, or are expected to receive a 1st class honours degree, or equivalent."
Masters is classed as postgrad, only bachelors is referred to as undergrad. so a four-year undergard degree would be referring to one-year foundation (maybe??)??? Also, most Eng degrees including the one tht I am doing comes with the title BEng in Aerospace (Hons).......... now I am confused!! :confused:

It means a four year undergrad course such as, in your case a MEng, or MSci, MPhys, MMath etc.

Reply 14

Scipio90

I don't think it's as easy as you think. If you've done a physics degree and chosen options with a lot of fluid mechanics (for example), you might be able to do research in aerospace engineering, but you're not going to be able to do a PhD in something you've never studied. Points about lawyers and accountants are irrelevant, really, and in both those cases you'd have to study the subject and pass more exams before you could actually qualify. To address another of your points, someone with a specialised physics degree might have more trouble converting to another specialism than someone who did a general degree.

This is a good post. Listen to it. I don't know that much about Astrophysics, but for particle Physics you need a lot of Maths background that I'm pretty sure you wouldn't cover in an Engineering degree.
You may be able to get onto a relavent Masters and then you can think about further study. Concentrate on Masters courses that you can get onto.

Reply 15

Supermerp

2

Sooz

To do a PhD in Particle Physics at Cambridge surely you would need to do the Part III in Maths.

Only if you wanted to do theory (edit: ) in the maths department (the experimental group has theorists that study things that might actually ~~exist~~ be observable).

Reply 16

Supermerp

Only if you wanted to do theory.

Ah yes, true.

Reply 17

shiny

12

serious_bits25

I am planning to study Particle physics or Astro-physics which is a far cry from what we study in Engineering

Your best bet is to start looking at websites like findaphd.com or jobs.ac.uk and start keeping an eye on PhD studentships being advertised that maybe of interest to you and begin to start applying for things. The chances of you switching disciplines will become apparent very quickly. If you get interviews then that is encouraging but if you are not any getting interviews then you will probably have to consider doing a Masters as a bridging step.

Reply 18

ChemistBoy

16

Depends what you want to do in these areas. There is a lot of engineering in experimental particle physics, for example, but your PhD would be more focussed on instrument design I should think rather than experimental interpretation, after all I don't think any engineering courses teach the standard model. If you want to get into physics you'd be best of looking into the overlap areas rather than trying to get a PhD in a area deep within a subject.

Reply 19