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vas876
Well yea, but to believe in something that is inprobable just because there is no conclusive proof otherwise, is illogical.



no proof now but that doesn't mean to say no proof will come
changing your mind when proof does emerge is the easy option.
many scientific theories have been proved wrong - people realise, accept and move on.
if someone made up a new hypothesis now and everyone said 'no that is impossible and illogical to be right' and then years later it is proven to be correct and true, don't you think the initial judgement was rather naive and illogical too? to state unequivocally no when you had no proof either way,
Nashy19
I said that babies would not be capable of comprehending the flying spaghetti monster, not calling names.


Nevermind then, I got the wrong end of the stick :smile:
nasmith3
Well I think it's pretty obvious what my opinions are on that. No matter if you believe in God or not, surely you would accept that it's teachings are based on living a good life and we have good intentions unlike a Wiccan sunday school? Also, Christian clubs and socieites have been respected and trusted in Britain for many years, e.g the scouts etc. So I think that there is a difference between putting your children to a Christian sunday school and a wicaan sunday school.

the bible teaches to follow or burn in hell.

how do you know what the intentions of a wiccan sunday school would be?

christian clubs and societies are having to shut down because people dont trust/want them.

i wont even mention the substantial amounts of peadophile priests and scout leaders that there have been
vas876
The only argument you need is its illogical.


And what argument is there to imply that it's illogical?

Again, note that something being unlikely is not the same as it being illogical (which would imply that it is literally impossible).
Dior-perfume
no proof now but that doesn't mean to say no proof will come
changing your mind when proof does emerge is the easy option.
many scientific theories have been proved wrong - people realise, accept and move on.
if someone made up a new hypothesis now and everyone said 'no that is impossible and illogical to be right' and then years later it is proven to be correct and true, don't you think the initial judgement was rather naive and illogical too? to state unequivocally no when you had no proof either way,


If you had something more logical then yes, but if the alternative was something illogical then no.

Bad argument i kinda get your idea, but you are assuming that the probability between god existing and not existing is 50:50.
morecambebay

i wont even mention the substantial amounts of peadophile priests and scout leaders that there have been


Being fair to all religions/faiths this is completely irrelevant to the actual belief system and is somewhat of a perversion (pardon the pun) of the debate
This argument just goes around in circles.

Religious person says "You will burn in hell for not believing!", Athiest person replies with "Where is your proof of hell?"

Rinse and repeat.
vas876
The only argument you need is its illogical.

Something like norlforkadams argument or the video i posted.




By the way, I've just seen the video you've posted
Yes it is true that certain conceptions of God are illogical (for example, one who is omniscient but doesn't know when my birthday is, or something) - but this doesn't show that God per se is illogical.
DavidR1991
Being fair to all religions/faiths this is completely irrelevant to the actual belief system and is somewhat of a perversion (pardon the pun) of the debate

the guy im arguing with left the debate about the belief system ages ago. the comment was made about his claim that even if christianity is false, it should have a place in society because it does good.
loafer
so it is more rational to put your

non-argument. most simple answer is the most rational. i like to think that i am rational. OR


hmm, i'm unsure. i take it the first option is your rational one? but then again isn't it being fixed (in your irrational option) also perfectly feasible?
there are suspicions around that story already..
Reply 190
Because that isn't the question people should be asking. Atheism involves the absense of belief, and should therefore be the base from which people work. The real question should be "why do you believe in your religion?" As no-one has ever provided me with any kind of argument persuasive enough for me to accept, I have not moved from my original standard base atheistic outlook.
vas876
If you had something more logical then yes, but if the alternative was something illogical then no.

Bad argument i kinda get your idea, but you are assuming that the probability between god existing and not existing is 50:50.



no i'm not you're just disagreeing and interpreting it that way
tazarooni89
By the way, I've just seen the video you've posted
Yes it is true that certain conceptions of God are illogical (for example, one who is omniscient but doesn't know when my birthday is, or something) - but this doesn't show that God per se is illogical.


Now you have changed the definition of god.

Which is fair enough and i agree, it does not rule it out as a possibility it just makes it less than 50% likely. Thats why id say i was agnostic.
Dior-perfume
no i'm not you're just disagreeing and interpreting it that way


What is it that you belive? btw, i think we may have something similar in mind.
Reply 194
morecambebay
the bible teaches to follow or burn in hell.

how do you know what the intentions of a wiccan sunday school would be?

christian clubs and societies are having to shut down because people dont trust/want them.

i wont even mention the substantial amounts of peadophile priests and scout leaders that there have been


People always come back to the paedophile arguement. There are corrupt people in all walks of life and of course Christianity is no different. However, I have to disagree that people don't want Christian clubs because, as I said before, the club in our town is making an enormous difference in an under-priviledged area. I think that if we can make a difference in one child's life then it is worth it.
vas876
Now you have changed the definition of god.

Have I really?

God

• noun 1 (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and supreme ruler of the universe. 2 (god) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature and human fortunes.

I'm perfectly happy to use this definition from the OED - I mean, the definition of God does not contain the idea that he must be omniscient but not know my birthday. I don't really see what illogical elements you think it contains.


I'd call myself a theist - but I really don't think the God I believe in has any self-contradictory or illogical elements to it. I'm not quite sure how that makes me brainwashed or stupid :s-smilie:
nasmith3
People always come back to the paedophile arguement. There are corrupt people in all walks of life and of course Christianity is no different. However, I have to disagree that people don't want Christian clubs because, as I said before, the club in our town is making an enormous difference in an under-priviledged area. I think that if we can make a difference in one child's life then it is worth it.

People always come back to the peadophile argument because its relevant. the christian belief in putting humans (like priests) on pedestals allows peadophiles to get away with alot more than they would elsewhere. You said before that the christian club was just about the only opportunity for kids in your town- maybe they dont want christianity but are bored ******** into going. again,none of what you have said has got anything to do with christianity being true.
Reply 197
morecambebay
People always come back to the peadophile argument because its relevant. the christian belief in putting humans (like priests) on pedestals allows peadophiles to get away with alot more than they would elsewhere. You said before that the christian club was just about the only opportunity for kids in your town- maybe they dont want christianity but are bored ******** into going. again,none of what you have said has got anything to do with christianity being true.


I know its not proof, I never stated that it was. I was merely responding to your post that Christians can say what they want as long as its not to children. Therefore, I pointed out that Christianity can have a positive impact on children's lives. Could you please confirm to me if you think this is true or not because although you're entitled to your opinion, I think it is deluded to think it has no positives to it and conveys that your a bit closed minded. Just because it's Christian, doesn't mean it doesn't have good intentions or any redeeming qualities.
nasmith3
I know its not proof, I never stated that it was. I was merely responding to your post that Christians can say what they want as long as its not to children. Therefore, I pointed out that Christianity can have a positive impact on children's lives. Could you please confirm to me if you think this is true or not because although you're entitled to your opinion, I think it is deluded to think it has no positives to it and conveys that your a bit closed minded. Just because it's Christian, doesn't mean it doesn't have good intentions or any redeeming qualities.

What I am trying to get at is that all of the good things you are talking about actually have nothing to do with christianity- they just happen to have been done by christian people.

That club could of been set up by atheists and it would still be good for the kids.

love , tollerance, respect ect...all have a good impact on childrens lives. but they are not christian virtues. they are HUMAN virtues.
vas876
What is it that you belive? btw, i think we may have something similar in mind.




i really doubt we do, i am a theist
i love how these discussions generate so much attention, i mean surely this is what God wanted right...debates :wink:

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