Tell me why you're not an atheist? (or at the very least agnostic)

I shalt call you none of those, as im pretty sure you are not!

But what does your belief give you? (pure curiosity, as i was once religious too)

I'm a Christian

That's an interesting question. I suppose, being a rather naturally self-centred person generally speaking, it's forced me to step outside of myself and focus on other people more (though I still struggle!). I've learned a lot about myself, and while this has been very uncomfortable, in many ways it's helped me to be more understanding and gentle with other people.

That's not to say one can't be any of those things without belief, that's just how I've found them. I know plenty of lovely non-believers.

If I may, I'd love to see what you'd have to say to this:

Let's just make 2 assertions about the Christian God,

1. He is omniscient. He knows the past, present and future perfectly.
2. He granted us free -will.

If both these statements are true, then answer me this.

If God knows that we will start our day at point 'a', and finish it at point 'b', does this not negate free will? Wouldn't it be impossible to avoid God's foresight?

Secondly, is it even possible to be granted free will? I think this was best described by Isaac Singer; 'We must believe in free will, we have no choice'.

Interested in your answer

So you want religion for a purely ethical and moral reason.

Which is perfect.

Out of interest could you not at the same time accept that it does not have all the answers and that science should be allowed to research in every field unrestricted by religious arguments about god and creation?

(obviously not pure evil research like killing babies to test drugs.)

THAT'S the question! That is the question. I might have phrased it different, but I see what you're getting at. And you know, so many people waste their time asking, "Why does God allow evil and suffering?" and such like, when they should be asking what you just asked. Because humanly, it's totally illogical, right? Believe me, I've turned this one over in my mind, and I can give you no answer I'm afraid.

100%. I'm very open to science on the issues concerning creation, as I do not go along with the 'traditional' Christian understanding of the literal 7 day creation.

Well I was a Christian for a large portion of my life, so I know what you mean when you get school-boy atheist questions like "who created god?" that are totally ineffective.

Questions like these were the ones that got me thinking.

I think I might just love you.

THAT'S the question! That is the question. I might have phrased it different, but I see what you're getting at. And you know, so many people waste their time asking, "Why does God allow evil and suffering?" and such like, when they should be asking what you just asked. Because humanly, it's totally illogical, right? Believe me, I've turned this one over in my mind, and I can give you no answer I'm afraid.

Imagine I have some kittens. I place these kittens into a sealed box with two tunnels leading out of it. One of these tunnels leads to me, and I would give them cuddles and kisses. The other tunnel leads to a conveyor belt that draws them inescapably into a slow, painful meat grinder. But I leave the choice of tunnel entirely up to them. Am I deserving of worship?

Imagine I have some kittens. I place these kittens into a sealed box with two tunnels leading out of it. One of these tunnels leads to me, and I would give them cuddles and kisses. The other tunnel leads to a conveyor belt that draws them inescapably into a slow, painful meat grinder. But I leave the choice of tunnel entirely up to them. Am I deserving of worship?

But why install a meat grinder in the first place? What kind of twisted entity would conceive of such a thing, and how can it be seriously known as all-loving?

And what of kittens that cannot see down the tunnels? There are cultures out there that have simply never heard of Christianity, or never have sufficient exposure to it to form an opinion. Babies cannot be said to be Christian, as they are incapable of understanding the idea. I hear anguished mewls from my meat grinder...

Lacking my kisses and cuddles is, as most Christians would attest, comparable to the meat grinder.

Which would be wonderful, and in such a circumstance I could respect such an entity. But it flies in the face of dogma.

If I may, I'd love to see what you'd have to say to this:

Let's just make 2 assertions about the Christian God,

1. He is omniscient. He knows the past, present and future perfectly.
2. He granted us free -will.

If both these statements are true, then answer me this.

If God knows that we will start our day at point 'a', and finish it at point 'b', does this not negate free will? Wouldn't it be impossible to avoid God's foresight?

Secondly, is it even possible to be granted free will? I think this was best described by Isaac Singer; 'We must believe in free will, we have no choice'.

Interested in your answer

knowing does not equate to causing. If I close my eyes while listening to a song I know the song is playing but I am not the one causing the song to be played.

So god grants us free will and allows us to play all of our games beneath the stars knowing exactly what we will do but allowing us to do it all the same because there's what free will is - the non-interference of god in the lives of individual people, then when we have done these things be they good or bad god judges us and we get a reward or a punishment.

everything seems so perfect and too convenient. when i learn things about the body for example in biology, i just think 'how convenient'. also take for example 'pioneer species'- so convenient they are able to colonise bare environments

Ah, this is where I take my leave. I can't abide the deeper theology - without meaning to cause offense, it all seems like excuses piled upon excuses piled upon unsavoury parts of the Bible.

sorry if i weren't very clear- i am not arguing against the existence of God.
if you want me to elaborate i can.