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Reply 20
E_D_B
Hitler invaded Poland having promised not to, and attacked Russia having engineered the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact a few years earlier. This discussion is pointless.

This was my exact thought. Just because Hitler said he didn't want to do something, it doesn't actually mean he didn't intend to. He was very good at talking.

And back to the OP's point, you make the empire sound like Britain's main priority. Whereas, you know, with holocausts and war crimes going on, I think I'd have rather less selfish, more moral priorities. :rolleyes:
You are a moron. Agreed?
Reply 22
Why are women posting in this thread, I didn't think there were computers in the kitchen.
Joke, calm down.

Biggest flaw in this cluster f*ck of assumptions is the fact that basing an alliance on the notion that Hitler wasn't willing to go to war with the British is quite ludicrous.
MagicNMedicine
hopefully Hitler wouldn't have had any interest in Western Europe and it would have worked out well
A nation of whites with an empire stretching over continents and including subcontinents in some ways gave their racial policy a bit of backing.
Reply 24
What your saying is completly stupid - Hitler was a **** but I would like to see Britain with a bigger military presence in the world
Better idea: Invade the USSR in 1918.

Lucible
And back to the OP's point, you make the empire sound like Britain's main priority. Whereas, you know, with holocausts and war crimes going on, I think I'd have rather less selfish, more moral priorities.

These things were mostly not known about until the war was nearly over. Britain did not declare war on Germany because of anti-semitism or war crimes.

Now if you just mean with hindsight, then sure, but the USSR killed even more people, and this thread is really about whether we shouldve essentially destroyed ourselves to make the USSR more powerful (as largely was the result of our actions), or to just leave the USSR and Germany to kill one another.
Collingwood
Better idea: Invade the USSR in 1918.


Again, easy to say with hindsight. But if we allow ourselves hindsight, then it would have likely made the 20th Century a lot less bloody (though obviously not definitely, since there are all sorts of unforeseen consequences which counterfactuals cannot even begin to to take into account). The Russian Revolution was THE most important event of the 20th Century. It is very easy to causally link the Russian Revolution to the rise of Nazism (through fear of Bolshevism), the Second World War, Stalinism and the USSR (obviously), the Chinese Communist Revolution, the Cold War and all the proxy wars involved, decolonization, nuclear weapons, the list is almost endless. It is pretty impossible to overstate the importance of the Russian Revolution (though I think there are much better ways of highlighting this than constructing absurd counterfactuals :smile:)
We did invade Russia in 1918.
Reply 28
The Second World War protected a lot of innocent people from the Nazi regime. Is that not more important?
Reply 29
So you would be happy with half of Europe speaking German and behaving German?


An idea that would terrify most Brits I'm sure...
Bagration
(1) Hitler had expressed a desire not to fight Britain and France.
.


It's probably true then. Hitler seems like the kind of guy I could trust.
Reply 31
Bagration
We should have let the Germans eat up the East. Meanwhile, we strengthen our garrisons in the colonies, beat off the Japanese as a result, and maintain the Empire. The US goes into obscurity or whatever as the depression destroys their economy. Germany beats the Soviets and makes satellite states out of Eastern Europe.

Meanwhile, Britain does the same and makes satellite states out of Western Europe and other countries around the globe that aren't part of her Empire already. Britain and Germany fight a Great Game over South America in the 50s. Both develop the atom bomb and there is a cold war between the British Empire and Nazi Germany. The Nazi Empire breaks down in the early 90s like the Soviet one did, much for the same reasons, and Britain and her Empire are left as the world superpowers (since both Britain and Germany see to it that China never proper industrialises.)

Thoughts?


Personally, I think we should have allied with the Germans - we'd have conquered the world and WWII would have been avoided.

As for the Holocaust - not our problem, but we could have persuaded Hitler to simply deport non-Europeans rather than kill them.

I think WWII was entirely unnecessary and didn't work out well for any party.
Reply 32
Dirac Delta Function
It's probably true then. Hitler seems like the kind of guy I could trust.


Hitler was quite an Anglophile actually, and as the English are a Germanic ethnicity he'd have wanted us to prosper and spread.
MagicNMedicine
We did invade Russia in 1918.


Not in any serious, determined manner.
Reply 34
The biggest and most dangerous assumption is that by doing nothing and trusting Hitler, despite his obvious and very clear stance on liking the Brits, that is not to say that once Germany did take over half the world, and the UK had the other half, that Hitler would not be assassinated by someone like Stauffenberg and Hitler's successor did not like the Brits much...

Interesting idea though!
Liquidus Zeromus
World trade would collapse, and the pacific war would still happen. Japan and Germany would still be butt buddies. The USA wouldn't give us any of that much-needed help in the pacific.
Germany might attack the UK instead at a later date, as Hitler is more concerned about an early death and UK-USA-USSR trade. Etc.


:yy:

I don't understand threads like this. It's not like you can change the past.
Notker
Hitler was quite an Anglophile actually, and as the English are a Germanic ethnicity he'd have wanted us to prosper and spread.


I don't think anyone was banking on Hitler's good intentions. In the end he would have "suggested" a "brotherly union", if you know what I mean
Bagration
We should have let the Germans eat up the East. Meanwhile, we strengthen our garrisons in the colonies, beat off the Japanese as a result, and maintain the Empire. The US goes into obscurity or whatever as the depression destroys their economy. Germany beats the Soviets and makes satellite states out of Eastern Europe.

Meanwhile, Britain does the same and makes satellite states out of Western Europe and other countries around the globe that aren't part of her Empire already. Britain and Germany fight a Great Game over South America in the 50s. Both develop the atom bomb and there is a cold war between the British Empire and Nazi Germany. The Nazi Empire breaks down in the early 90s like the Soviet one did, much for the same reasons, and Britain and her Empire are left as the world superpowers (since both Britain and Germany see to it that China never proper industrialises.)

Thoughts?


Holocaust was a fake, Hitler had every right get own back on France.. haha i got negged.. I think WW2 was the best thing to happen to people in Colonies EVER, another war with the South America should Wipe Britian and its American ally right of the map



Im Glad Britain declared War and then lost... and then all it colonies got independence
Reply 38
Dirac Delta Function
I don't think anyone was banking on Hitler's good intentions. In the end he would have "suggested" a "brotherly union", if you know what I mean


And why not? We're moving towards that anyway with the EU. I think both parties would have strengthened the other. If we'd have allied with Germany or entered a mutually beneficial union there'd be no more reason for Hitler to attack England than there would be for him to attack Bavaria or Saxony.
Bagration
We should have let the Germans eat up the East. Meanwhile, we strengthen our garrisons in the colonies, beat off the Japanese as a result, and maintain the Empire. The US goes into obscurity or whatever as the depression destroys their economy. Germany beats the Soviets and makes satellite states out of Eastern Europe.

Meanwhile, Britain does the same and makes satellite states out of Western Europe and other countries around the globe that aren't part of her Empire already. Britain and Germany fight a Great Game over South America in the 50s. Both develop the atom bomb and there is a cold war between the British Empire and Nazi Germany. The Nazi Empire breaks down in the early 90s like the Soviet one did, much for the same reasons, and Britain and her Empire are left as the world superpowers (since both Britain and Germany see to it that China never proper industrialises.)

Thoughts?


1) Very few Jews would've remained- massive holocaust bigger than that which happened would have occured.

2) US economy was coming out of the recession as a result of Roosevelt's interventionalist policies. The mere threat of war would have and did hasten this process.

3) Beating the Japanese would still have required a hell of a lot of resources and the British could have lost anyway.

4) Yes because Britain could easily have invaded France while Germany stood by to the threat on its borders (if the British had somehow pulled off an invasion in the first place).

5) The Nazi Empire would have been stronger than the Soviet Union. The very reason the USSR collapsed was because the people had pretty much nothing from its onset and at times over 60% of the GDP was going into the military. The Germans under Hitler were actually very well off and actually liked him whereas the Russians probably hated their leaders.

Basically :nah: :hmmm:

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