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Original post by Bekaboo
Yeah but he's not even being ironic.
He basically goes 'As to the question of whether life evolved on other planets ...' (that's not even the question. Not that he'd know. He didn't write the essay title on his work) '... The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy tells us that there is no life in the universe... [lengthy explanation of why this is]'.
And that's it. That is his argument. Not as a comic aside to some science. That's it.
He basically goes 'As to the question of whether life evolved on other planets ...' (that's not even the question. Not that he'd know. He didn't write the essay title on his work) '... The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy tells us that there is no life in the universe... [lengthy explanation of why this is]'.
And that's it. That is his argument. Not as a comic aside to some science. That's it.
Oh wow. That passage is there to illustrate how silly you can be with logic and words, I can't believe someone would actually use that unironically. That's epic faildom.
Though I wasn't being ironic either in using weird stuff, I just use it properly to illustrate a point in a more interesting way that citing some journal article: The scene in The Princess Bride with the game of drinking poison illustrates perfectly the difference between tactics (which you choose to drink) and strategy (gaining an immunity to the poison and poisoning both cups); the Social Contract helped elaborate a discussion of the social responsibilities of firms; and George Bush's infamous quote about France having no word for entrepreneur is an interesting aside to a discussion on why venture capital and starting companies is easier in the US compared to the EU.
Original post by Bekaboo
Yeah but he's not even being ironic.
He basically goes 'As to the question of whether life evolved on other planets ...' (that's not even the question. Not that he'd know. He didn't write the essay title on his work) '... The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy tells us that there is no life in the universe... [lengthy explanation of why this is]'.
And that's it. That is his argument. Not as a comic aside to some science. That's it.
He basically goes 'As to the question of whether life evolved on other planets ...' (that's not even the question. Not that he'd know. He didn't write the essay title on his work) '... The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy tells us that there is no life in the universe... [lengthy explanation of why this is]'.
And that's it. That is his argument. Not as a comic aside to some science. That's it.
Sounds like an arse. If he didn't answer the question, didn't cite anything properly and quotes inappropriate sources then he hasn't really done anything worthy of a mark above zero, unless there is a mark scheme which gives credit for 'writing English words, sometimes in sentences'.
Original post by Drogue
Actually, young men are banned from driving some cars, as they can't get insurance. A new driver will find no-one to insure them to drive a Porsche 911, for example. The same is true for many smokers getting health and life insurance. Or me for example - I'm pretty sure I'd have no chance of getting comprehensive life insurance if I didn't already have it. Though these are extreme examples, they do exist.
Charging someone a higher rate because of a feature they have that makes them higher risk is discrimination. If I had a shop and charged black people twice the price of white people, that's not exclusion, but it's still discrimination. To me, the issue of whether it's ok or not is whether it's justified. Charging any ethnic or gender group of people more for some chocolate would seem to be unjustified, to me (though charging girls more may be an example of semi-efficient price discrimination...), as who buys it doesn't affect the seller. This isn't true for insurance or event booking though - some groups are higher risk than others, and thus charging them the same rate would be unfair to the sellers and to the lower-risk groups. I really like your idea of higher risk groups having to provide a higher deposit, as this solves the problem without excluding anyone, however it would be illegal in this case - you can't charge one ethnic group a higher rate than another group. You also can't exclude them for that reason, but it's much easier to find an excuse to cancel than to charge a higher rate.
Given that venues are cancelling when they find out, even at the last minute, thus they're unlikely to get another booking, they must believe the risk to be substantial given how much money they're losing cancelling. With an incentive that strong, laws against it will make them find ways around it - saying it's for other reasons, etc. I think it's far better in situations like this where one group is higher risk to allow higher deposits or higher charges, which remove the incentive to simply not offer the product to them.
It sucks for low-risk members of a high-risk group to be charged a high-risk price, but there's little other option. Using deposits or excess to signal that the individual believes themselves to be higher or lower risk than would be expected lessens this suckiness, though it doesn't get rid of it. Banning discrimination based on which group people fall into leads to a whole host of bad solutions though.
Charging someone a higher rate because of a feature they have that makes them higher risk is discrimination. If I had a shop and charged black people twice the price of white people, that's not exclusion, but it's still discrimination. To me, the issue of whether it's ok or not is whether it's justified. Charging any ethnic or gender group of people more for some chocolate would seem to be unjustified, to me (though charging girls more may be an example of semi-efficient price discrimination...), as who buys it doesn't affect the seller. This isn't true for insurance or event booking though - some groups are higher risk than others, and thus charging them the same rate would be unfair to the sellers and to the lower-risk groups. I really like your idea of higher risk groups having to provide a higher deposit, as this solves the problem without excluding anyone, however it would be illegal in this case - you can't charge one ethnic group a higher rate than another group. You also can't exclude them for that reason, but it's much easier to find an excuse to cancel than to charge a higher rate.
Given that venues are cancelling when they find out, even at the last minute, thus they're unlikely to get another booking, they must believe the risk to be substantial given how much money they're losing cancelling. With an incentive that strong, laws against it will make them find ways around it - saying it's for other reasons, etc. I think it's far better in situations like this where one group is higher risk to allow higher deposits or higher charges, which remove the incentive to simply not offer the product to them.
It sucks for low-risk members of a high-risk group to be charged a high-risk price, but there's little other option. Using deposits or excess to signal that the individual believes themselves to be higher or lower risk than would be expected lessens this suckiness, though it doesn't get rid of it. Banning discrimination based on which group people fall into leads to a whole host of bad solutions though.
Well, you're talking from a management perspective and I'm talking from a moral one. I think racial discrimination is always wrong, and see little differenence between pubs and wedding venues being closed travellers and the hateful old style 'No blacks, no dogs, no Irish' attitude of employers and hotelliers before political correctness made it necessary for them to shroud their bigotry in lies about 'water damage' or being 'closed for refurbishment'. Prejudice is prejudice.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by Athena
That's awful! Did he do biology as an undergrad?!
That's awful! Did he do biology as an undergrad?!
No. They're paleobiologists, so they're Masters students in the Geography department, doing a 2nd year biology unit that is compulsory for them (in the same way that we used to get 3rd year HumScis doing genetics with us in 2nd year)
Original post by hobnob
Sounds as though you really should fail him, to be honest. Or at least give him a mark in the 30s or something. I mean, even undergraduates wouldn't be allowed to cite a sci-fi novel as their only source in an essay...
I want to. I really want to. I'm just not sure I'm allowed to. I know that sounds ridiculous but they're not my students. I'm just borrowing them because it's a weird set up where they have no tutor and need one tutorial.
Original post by Little Jules
To be fair, at least he's referencing that idea...
Well he didn't even cite that
He said 'As it says' but it's not in his bibliography and the phrase (Adams, 1978) doesn't appear anywhere 
Original post by Drogue
Oh wow. That passage is there to illustrate how silly you can be with logic and words, I can't believe someone would actually use that unironically. That's epic faildom.
Original post by ChemistBoy
Sounds like an arse. If he didn't answer the question, didn't cite anything properly and quotes inappropriate sources then he hasn't really done anything worthy of a mark above zero, unless there is a mark scheme which gives credit for 'writing English words, sometimes in sentences'.
The worrying thing is you can still get a 3rd I believe for 'one or two relevant points'. And he does make one or two relevant points. The problem is that although my own personal mark scheme that I wrote and gave to my tutees contains notes on citation and bibliography (So I could say I warned them when I started handing out 2iis) the official department one doesn't, because it's designed for exams when you're not expected to cite properly. So there's no benchmark.
I want to fail him. I should fail him. I just feel really un-kosher about doing it. Have emailed the course leader for advice.
Original post by Bekaboo
I want to fail him. I should fail him. I just feel really un-kosher about doing it. Have emailed the course leader for advice.
I want to fail him. I should fail him. I just feel really un-kosher about doing it. Have emailed the course leader for advice.
No sympathy. He should know how to make a half decent attempt and clearly can't be arsed to do so. Fail the little sod.
I agree - he should fail. But I would have a word with someone else first just to check that you're allowed to do that...
Original post by the_alba
I'm talking about a moral perspective too, I think such discrimination in things like insurance where who buys it matters is morally justified because who buys it matters. I think it's absolutely right that where who the buyer is doesn't matter (like any normal good - chocolate, a toaster, a car, etc.) that discrimination is illegal, but for something like insurance or events, where who is buying it is integral to the product, it has to be ok. Mainly as this isn't bigotry if it's evidence-based. Saying that men are more dangerous drivers isn't bigotry, it's true. I wouldn't be surprised if it were also true that a gypsy reception was more likely to cause issues for other guests than a non-gypsy one.
The same way I think it isn't moral for a normal company to choose employees based on looks, but I think it's perfectly ok for a modelling agency or acting company to discriminate based on looks. It being integral to the job makes it ok, in my eyes.
Do you think an insurance company shouldn't be allowed to charge men more because they're less safe drivers? Or young people? If so, how is an insurance company meant to function when it can't offer high-risk people a high price and low-risk people a low price? If not, what makes race different to gender or age, since you can't choose any of them?
The same could apply to discriminating on looks for a modelling agency - is it ok, and if so, why are looks different to race? If not, how could modelling work?
Original post by Becca
What's up? 
Had my fourth rejection...
Original post by apotoftea
Had my fourth rejection...
That happens to lots of undergrads applying for the full-length courses, and grad medicine is even more competitive than that. Don't take it too much to heart - if you did decide to reapply the next year, you might find the opposite is the case, and you'd have four choices.
Bekaboo
x
Does you have a suggestion for a good tray bake (stuff like brownies, or lemon drizzle cake or something) that I can easily ice? I want to make my boyfriend a college crest birthday cake, but because it'll have to be 13" x 9" and I don't have a cake tin that big, it needs to be something that's single layer but can still be iced.
I have one! If you/people like coconut that is. It's my grandma's recipe - officially called fudge, but really a chocolate tray bake. You ice it while hot, so it looks impressive too...
Original post by Feefifofum
I have one! If you/people like coconut that is. It's my grandma's recipe - officially called fudge, but really a chocolate tray bake. You ice it while hot, so it looks impressive too...
Ooh!
Original post by Bekaboo
The worrying thing is you can still get a 3rd I believe for 'one or two relevant points'. And he does make one or two relevant points. The problem is that although my own personal mark scheme that I wrote and gave to my tutees contains notes on citation and bibliography (So I could say I warned them when I started handing out 2iis) the official department one doesn't, because it's designed for exams when you're not expected to cite properly. So there's no benchmark.
I want to fail him. I should fail him. I just feel really un-kosher about doing it. Have emailed the course leader for advice.
The worrying thing is you can still get a 3rd I believe for 'one or two relevant points'. And he does make one or two relevant points. The problem is that although my own personal mark scheme that I wrote and gave to my tutees contains notes on citation and bibliography (So I could say I warned them when I started handing out 2iis) the official department one doesn't, because it's designed for exams when you're not expected to cite properly. So there's no benchmark.
I want to fail him. I should fail him. I just feel really un-kosher about doing it. Have emailed the course leader for advice.
Just do it and let the department pick up the pieces if they feel it needs to be moderated.
Original post by ChemistBoy
Just do it and let the department pick up the pieces if they feel it needs to be moderated.
Mmmm. Well I already emailed the guy who runs the course, so I'll say what he says and then I'll just dive in. For reasons I don't entirely understand I'm not allowed to give them back their marks, so he won't know how far I've marked it down, so it's sort of not my problem. I intend to give them all a crib sheet with precise things that were wrong so at least I'll have that ready-prepared to back me up. I just know I'm already considered a harsh marker (I'm sorry but I think that there shouldn't be a difference between Oxford standard and Bristol standard, and a **** essay is still a **** essay!) and I don't want to risk losing out on future work. This of course is assuming I even stay. *is glum and ill*
Original post by Bekaboo
Mmmm. Well I already emailed the guy who runs the course, so I'll say what he says and then I'll just dive in. For reasons I don't entirely understand I'm not allowed to give them back their marks, so he won't know how far I've marked it down, so it's sort of not my problem. I intend to give them all a crib sheet with precise things that were wrong so at least I'll have that ready-prepared to back me up. I just know I'm already considered a harsh marker (I'm sorry but I think that there shouldn't be a difference between Oxford standard and Bristol standard, and a **** essay is still a **** essay!) and I don't want to risk losing out on future work. This of course is assuming I even stay. *is glum and ill*
If that got handed in in Bristol politics it would have failed. I scraped passes on a few things that were a hell of a lot better on that.
Cheers guys, this is comforting. Think I just have to go with my gut feeling.
One of the other tutors suggested I fail him for plagiarism because technically he hasn't referenced Hitchhiker's Guide 
One of the other tutors suggested I fail him for plagiarism because technically he hasn't referenced Hitchhiker's Guide
College-crest birthday cake? Is he that happy to be there, then?
Chocolate fudge recipe
Spoiler
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by Bekaboo
The worrying thing is you can still get a 3rd I believe for 'one or two relevant points'. And he does make one or two relevant points. The problem is that although my own personal mark scheme that I wrote and gave to my tutees contains notes on citation and bibliography (So I could say I warned them when I started handing out 2iis) the official department one doesn't, because it's designed for exams when you're not expected to cite properly. So there's no benchmark.
I want to fail him. I should fail him. I just feel really un-kosher about doing it. Have emailed the course leader for advice.
I want to fail him. I should fail him. I just feel really un-kosher about doing it. Have emailed the course leader for advice.
To say a small word in his favour, as his essay seems awful in other respects too, I never understand why citing in taught courses is such a vital thing. Obviously it's crucial not to just send in someone else's work, and giving credit where credit is due is important, but I'd have thought it's important mostly in things that will be published. Does anyone really care if some grad student doesn't give them credit in an essay that will never be read by anyone but their tutor? In a taught course, the only benefit of citing I can see is to flag that you know where something comes from and have probably read it. Which is worth getting credit for, but if someone makes a good argument, I don't think it's hugely improved by being cited, as it shows they've learned it either way.
I know unis get very touchy about it - one of my friends had disciplinary issues at uni for forgetting to put quotation marks around a quote, which struck me as a huge overreaction. I just don't understand why, really. They're definitely good things to have and worth some marks, but an essay that shows a command of the subject and is argued compellingly is worth a 2i to me regardless of whether it's cited, whereas one which lacks the argument or command of the subject doesn't become a good essay even if impeccably cited.
As said, this essay seems obviously bad anyway, but the lack of citing seems to me like just another negative, rather than a sufficient reason to fail someone. If he's made one or two relevant points and that's meant to be enough for a 3rd, doesn't that seem fair?
That's an honest question, as I realise everyone else sees citing as much more important than I do, but nobody's ever explained why and I don't really understand it.
As an aside, even with journal articles I find some of the citing makes it really hard to read. One I read today regularly had a two or three citations per sentence, which breaks up your train of thought horribly. These were often for common sense statements too, points I could have happily put in an essay myself despite having never read the papers cited. If something's that obvious, citing it seems a bit much to me.
Original post by Athena
and I've already learnt SO much from this experience which is a good thing. I know I've found my happy place to so walk away after one application cycle is the wrong thing to do I think. However, I've got to think about having another year in limbo so to speak and obviously the cost of the course, with the chance that I may not get in again. Urgh. That, and my mac dying - it's not been a good week
bekaboo
x
I'd fail him if his essay was ****.
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