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How hard is a Medicine degree?

But it's not unbearable is it? Dissection? I mean I think I could get used to it. And the workload I have no problem with. I was just concerned with the amount of chemistry in the course?

There is almost no chemistry in the course. Nothing you haven't learned in school. Seriously, medicine isn't actually that bad at all. Yes, you need to study hard and probably more than other subjects, but it is also manageable. If you want to go above and beyond then yes you will need to work hard, but if you just want to coast its not bad at all.

Reply 21

ab192

8

Original post by Anna.A123

But it's not unbearable is it? Dissection? I mean I think I could get used to it. And the workload I have no problem with. I was just concerned with the amount of chemistry in the course?

Ignore the poster above, that's not true at all. The majority of med schools do not use dissection now. IIRC, Peninsula med school doesn't use cadavers at all for anatomy. Most med schools use prosections where the cadaver is already cut up and prepared for you and you just stand around the specimen while an anatomy demonstrator talks through it and asks questions. It's not really 'disgusting' and even if you do find it unbearable you can walk out quickly if you want (at my med school anyway you aren't forced to stay the entire session). I don't think you'd be at a disadvantage either for doing that, as you learn the relevant anatomy from lectures/textbooks before stepping near a cadaver and they're there more to 'test' what you've learnt.
And no there's hardly chemistry in medicine, the level is no higher than in school.

Reply 22

Anna.A123

5

Original post by ab192

Ignore the poster above, that's not true at all. The majority of med schools do not use dissection now. IIRC, Peninsula med school doesn't use cadavers at all for anatomy. Most med schools use prosections where the cadaver is already cut up and prepared for you and you just stand around the specimen while an anatomy demonstrator talks through it and asks questions. It's not really 'disgusting' and even if you do find it unbearable you can walk out quickly if you want (at my med school anyway you aren't forced to stay the entire session). I don't think you'd be at a disadvantage either for doing that, as you learn the relevant anatomy from lectures/textbooks before stepping near a cadaver and they're there more to 'test' what you've learnt.
And no there's hardly chemistry in medicine, the level is no higher than in school.

Thanks a bunch!

Reply 23

Anna.A123

5

Original post by ukmed108

There is almost no chemistry in the course. Nothing you haven't learned in school. Seriously, medicine isn't actually that bad at all. Yes, you need to study hard and probably more than other subjects, but it is also manageable. If you want to go above and beyond then yes you will need to work hard, but if you just want to coast its not bad at all.

Thanks!

Reply 24

username1236842

8

Don't you do biochemistry any more? I did loads of biochemistry that was more complex than A level chemistry and we did old fashioned dissection round cadavers. You also have to assist at operations on surgery attachments and hold retractors etc whilst gazing into abdomens. If you have a septic abdomen it smells unpleasant, plus you have to watch post mortems or did when I qualified. Medical training sounds seriously dumbed down if you can do it and be a bit precious and squeamish.

Reply 25

Kinkerz

15

Original post by taysidefrog

Don't you do biochemistry any more? I did loads of biochemistry that was more complex than A level chemistry and we did old fashioned dissection round cadavers. You also have to assist at operations on surgery attachments and hold retractors etc whilst gazing into abdomens. If you have a septic abdomen it smells unpleasant, plus you have to watch post mortems or did when I qualified.

I think many schools now recognise the futility of this.

Reply 26

LCM2

2

Original post by Straw-man666

It's piss easy. My brother's in his 3rd year and he just dosses about all year and passes. The fact that you either get a pass or a fail also means theres no reward in working extra hard to get them top scores

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although it's pass fail you're still ranked against every other medical student graduating that year and this determines what job you get, very important.

Reply 27

BeanofJelly

15

Original post by Straw-man666

It's piss easy. My brother's in his 3rd year and he just dosses about all year and passes. The fact that you either get a pass or a fail also means theres no reward in working extra hard to get them top scores

Third year they make less demanding as some will really struggle with the transition to clinical learning. At my school it had very little new content, and was generally about translating academic into clinical knowledge, practicing histories, learning the runnings of the team, and/or generally getting in the way not doing much. By far the least taxing year academically, so I don't think it is a fair bench mark for medicine overall.

The preclinical years (1&2) are difficult as they involve a transition from A levels in the sheer bulk you have to learn. I remember working out that the content of 1 lecture was the same as in about 8 hours of lessons in Biology A-level content, and we had about 5 a day. Hence, it seems overwhelming, if you are a desperate little swot like me you can study hours every day, but you will still rarely/never see the 80-100% you are used to in A levels. Though you don't need to, it's still distressing. Takes at least about 2-3 years getting used to, and even then it's upsetting, always.

In the latter clinical years, students are usually more experienced and organised studiers, in some ways it is easier (because you're used to it), but compared to other degrees the number of hours put into work is greater, considering going into placement is at least a part-time (often full-time) job and there is always more medicine to revise at home.

The benefit is that you do not require the force of will and motivation to complete endless essays or god forbid a dissertation project. I think it's easier to be motivated in medicine because to some extent you choose what to learn based on its relevance and interest, especially as you go on. There's also a fair amount of structure which makes it easier to work hard, and you also learn "on the job" all of that time, even if you're not consciously appreciating it.

Come exam time though (at least about 2 months leading up to it), medicine is a complete nightmare that sees even very capable students going into a meltdown. There aren't many other degrees where students who work hard and are generally academically able can struggle to get through the year, because they focused on the wrong things, or took the wrong approach etc. This happens a lot in the preclinical years; students get better and fail less in the clinical years but then there is more pressure to "not just pass" as you become aware of the need to compete. There are also constant irritating demands like weird minor coursework the medical school sets to keep their talons in, portfolio rubbish, extra little projects, gaining extra experience, poster presentation etc. Some people go a bit mental and forget to have a life, tbh. Though this isn't necessary at all to pass a medical degree, it definitely brings out the neurotic in many people.

It must be hard work because whenever I am off on holidays I feel all traumatised and twitchy as though I should be doing something, working on something, revising something. I'll think "I want to go to the shops but it will waste precious time" then realise I have nothing to do now. Alas, this resets just around the time you come back in for the next year...

Yeah it's not piss easy. But it's definitely doable and fun at the same time as being hard work. And there are periods in which you can doss quite a lot, but you'll usually pay for it at some point.

Reply 28

Copperknickers

15

Original post by Vanny17

A piece of string is always two times the length from the midpoint to the end.

Not necessarily.

If the string is infinitely long, then the length of the midpoint to the end will be infinity, so the entire piece of string would actually be 2 infinities long according to your logic, which isn't possible.

Reply 29

ukmed108

7

Original post by taysidefrog

Don't you do biochemistry any more? I did loads of biochemistry that was more complex than A level chemistry and we did old fashioned dissection round cadavers. You also have to assist at operations on surgery attachments and hold retractors etc whilst gazing into abdomens. If you have a septic abdomen it smells unpleasant, plus you have to watch post mortems or did when I qualified. Medical training sounds seriously dumbed down if you can do it and be a bit precious and squeamish.

We don't anymore. The little biochem we learn pales in comparison with what the Americans know. So yes, the US is still doing what the UK did many years back, but now we don't do biochem. Do you really need biochem to be a good doctor, I don't think so.

Reply 30

OnionRing

11

So I won't be expecting 80-100% in medic exams but the pass rate is 50%.

So do most people get 65%+?

Reply 31

Kinkerz

15

Original post by OnionRing

So I won't be expecting 80-100% in medic exams but the pass rate is 50%.

So do most people get 65%+?

Pass rates and average scores, etc., vary between universities.

Reply 32

1drowssap

17

Original post by Anna.A123

I'm thinking about doing medicine but I'm not that good at chemistry. Does that matter?

Just to let you know, this is an ancient thread. Anyway, I'm gonna watch this thread too. Lots of useful info. Could anyone kindly share what you felt was the most difficult part about the first year of medicine? What advice would you give to a soon to be a first year?

Reply 33

OnionRing

11

Original post by Kinkerz

Pass rates and average scores, etc., vary between universities.

That makes sense yeah. As long as I pass competitively within my cohort is the main thing.

Reply 34

ab192

8

Original post by OnionRing

So I won't be expecting 80-100% in medic exams but the pass rate is 50%.

So do most people get 65%+?

The pass rate (as in the proportion of people who pass an exam) is much higher than 50%!
But having said that a good a number of people do fail exams every year and have to resit them, I think that's true at all med schools though. The pass mark is about 50% at my med school, but that's not because it's easy it's more that the questions are harder (you have to think hard about each one pretty much) and there is so much information to learn/ the fact they often ask really obscure questions based on the footnote of a single slide for example that it's pretty much impossible to get 100%.

Original post by 1drowssap

Just to let you know, this is an ancient thread. Anyway, I'm gonna watch this thread too. Lots of useful info. Could anyone kindly share what you felt was the most difficult part about the first year of medicine? What advice would you give to a soon to be a first year?

I'd say it's working out how to work. I do a PBL course so there's more you have to do yourself, but there'll still be a lot of self study in a standard course- so I think this'll still apply. My advice would be to get a book for each subject (e.g. Guyton for physiology, Gray's for Anatomy, even if it's a systems based course) and go through all the relevant chapter for the topic you're covering (even if it's not directly linked to an outcome). This might sound stupid and obvious, but to begin with I just did the exact outcomes in PBL by googling/ reading odd parts of each book. You'll find you cover and retain a lot of the other things like lectures/practicals by doing it this way and not just PBL and generally get a better depth of knowledge (which comes up on exams) than if you stick to exactly what the med school gives you.

But tbh, first year isn't that hard and the first thing you should be worried about is socialising and enjoying yourself. You can definitely enjoy yourself as a medic as much as any other course. :smile:

Reply 35

seaholme

19

Original post by 1drowssap

Just to let you know, this is an ancient thread. Anyway, I'm gonna watch this thread too. Lots of useful info. Could anyone kindly share what you felt was the most difficult part about the first year of medicine? What advice would you give to a soon to be a first year?

The exams! I did a non-PBL course and honestly apart from attending an insane number of lectures (5-6 hours a day 5 days a week) I didn't do much actual academic work throughout year 1.

First year exams came close to breaking me. The amount of stuff and the detail you need to know it in just to stand a chance of passing was insane, I think it's still the hardest year I've done. As somebody has said on here, one lecture is like 4-5 hours worth of A Level or IB or whatever teaching. Multiply that by 5-6 per day and it's actually really overwhelming. We had to do a lot of the aforementioned 'futile' biochemistry, of which I remember none now but we had to know it really intensely at the time. Anyway, once you've done it once you know a few tricks and know what to expect and even though there's more content and other challenging subjects in year 2, it's not so bad when you know what to expect. But it all varies between medical schools.

Reply 36

Xotol

14

Original post by OnionRing

So I won't be expecting 80-100% in medic exams but the pass rate is 50%.

So do most people get 65%+?

Kings publish the cohort results, so in first year to give you an idea, out of around 400 total students, ~60 failed first time. Around 40 people passed with merit (> 74) I think with the highest at 85. Most got in between 50 and 70.

What you'll realise when you get to med school is that everyone else is very academically able. So while it's possible to compete at the top of your year, it shouldn't be an obsession, especially as the difference between 50% and 80% in first year isn't very important in the grand scheme.

It's hard and the sheer volume is like night and day compared to A level, but managable. I managed to go clubbing like 2 to 3 times a week pretty religiously until March and end up wth a very good result

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 37

nexttime

22

Original post by taysidefrog

Don't you do biochemistry any more?

We do!

Its being more and more replaced with genetics and genetic techniques as time goes on though, which makes sense.

Medical training sounds seriously dumbed down if you can do it and be a bit precious and squeamish.

I don't think you can be squeamish no - not by the end anyway.Have people been saying that? At the beginning - sure. You get used to it quickly.

And 'dumbed down' definitely would not be the right word - i mean, how much did you learn by holding those retractors for hours? That was an incredibly enlightening experience that you thought we were missing out on was it? :tongue:

Now is training different - I should hope so, because medicine certainly isn't the same.

Reply 38

username1236842

8

Holding retractors for hours meant that you saw what being a surgeon was actually like and saw the details of the operation. Don't medical students in surgical attachments assist at operations any more? If all you did was clerk in patients and go to outpatients surgical attachments would have been much more boring. I loved being in theatre and seeing the operations through and listening to the banter. You felt part of the team. In the middle of the night at emergency operations it was very exciting.

Reply 39

nexttime

22

Original post by taysidefrog

Holding retractors for hours meant that you saw what being a surgeon was actually like

Sure, but that's only really relevant to a small proportion of students. and saw the details of the operation. Don't medical students in surgical attachments assist at operations any more?

Yes, but I get the impression its less than it used to be. At teaching hospitals even the regs seem to fight over assisting. Most of my theatre time was standing behind the surgeon or talking to the anaesthetist (which was a lot less boring and far more useful in terms of learning content).

Only the small proportion that actually go on to become surgeons get anything out of watching a 5th lap chole, i'd say, and even then, its not like they won't be seeing hundreds of each operation once they start core surgical training...

If all you did was clerk in patients and go to outpatients surgical attachments would have been much more boring. I loved being in theatre and seeing the operations through and listening to the banter. You felt part of the team. In the middle of the night at emergency operations it was very exciting.

I found assisting fun the first time, but when you're there at 6pm, been standing all day doing operations you've seen many times before, having learnt absolutely nothing all day... its pretty depressing.

Its better when the surgeons talk to you, ask you about indications, complications etc, but in my experience they rarely do, and even the keenest teacher can't keep the knowledge flowing for a full 4/5 hour list.

I generally recommend that students go and see operations they haven't seen before once. More than that and I say don't bother unless you want/have to, because I don't think it has any learning value at all.

How hard is a Medicine degree?

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