"I'm a traveller and I'll slit your throat" - Dale Farm

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Original post by Mr. Approachable

We don't have Pikey's or Gypsies where I live. If they arrive they don't have time to turn the ignition off before they are mobbed by locals. Very conservative area.

Lol I wouldn't be so sure, apparently they move in the dead of night and you wouldn't realise it until the next morning, thats why councils nearby dale farm are digging massive trenches along parks and putting in barricades as precaution - I think its quite sad thats its got to this point where councils are having to resort to these deperate tactics. If the law worked as it should with illegal sites removed instantly, councils and their residents wouldn't be in a virtual state of fear.

Reply 61

Keckers

Original post by 122025278

My own experience with travellers from a small market town in Leicestershire, knowing of the constant criminality,

You don't by any chance live near the gypsy camp where several million pounds in cash was found under a single caravan all of which was linked to illegitimate dealings?

Reply 62

Sammydemon

Original post by 122025278

My own experience with travellers from a small market town in Leicestershire, knowing of the constant criminality, I've had a look in the local Basildon newspaper in Essex for stories involving travellers and that is one of the first stories that's come up, I'm looking at oldest first.

http://www.echo-news.co.uk/archive/1999/05/26/Essex+Archive/5529201.Basildon__Homeless_man_held_as_slave/

Which small market town?

Reply 63

Cheese_Monster

I have absolutely no sympathy for the pikeys nor for the protestors. Minority rights blah blah blah, they are breaking the law and they've had notice that they will be forcibly evicted. Serves them right for their thieving, mugging, intimidating ways and if they avoid tax paying in the system then why should the system accomodate them?

Reply 64

Mr. Approachable

True they have to have somewhere to live, but if they try to disrupt the peace... If the rebels can take down Gadaffi then they can remove a site of gypsies.

Reply 65

PendulumBoB

Original post by BCUciaran

Man this is shocking and I am really offended!! People actually pos rated this? "Event the Irish hate them" what does that mean? They must be really bad if we hate them?

Everybody knows that your average non traveller Irish, is a bastion of tolerance, good-humour and merryment, if they hate you, you must be a ****.

Spoiler

Reply 66

PendulumBoB

Original post by Reflexive

Not necessarily, but in some ways, sometimes. E.g. a part of gypsy culture is bare-knuckle sparring. It's absolutely entrenched in the culture. They don't know any different. It's not as much of a black and white issue as people make out. And plus, there's good and bad in travellers as there is elsewhere. It's just their moral framework is different. I nonetheless agree that some acts deserve punishment.

If their society functions outside the law, then they should also be outside the laws protection.

Reply 67

Smilingsam

Original post by fuzzybear

If I want a place to set up somewhere, why should I expect the council to cater for me. I'd be expected to earn my own money to pay for my own land and apply for planning permission.

You don't understand the whole argument about dale farm is that it is illegal and they are breaking the law well there is a law in place that means the council have to set up sites for travellers.

Original post by fuzzybear

Surely everyone in society should be treated equally?

Yes ideally that is what most of us want, not sure if that is reflected on this website, seem to be a lot of students that don't care why people are treated different.

Original post by fuzzybear

Besides, wouldn't it be better to encourage integration with the rest of society rather than provide sites exclusively for them which serves only to deepen separation with others and breed ignorance among all.

Yes of course it would be better to encourage integration however this isn't going to happen you will always have the ignorance there because as soon as there is one bad apple everyone turns into a bad apple.

Also if you ask most people they will say travelers should just settle down and move into houses. What houses are these that people talk about, there are already people crying out for houses which can not obtain them. So travelers are doing this country a favor.

Travelers at dale farm want to have a permanent base for the winter months and somewhere they can call home, but they want to keep moving for the rest of the year. They live more than a lot of the people in this country although there life expectancy is lower.

Original post by fuzzybear

Why?

Left this part till last because I wanted to answer the other parts first, the reason I would create a site like dale farm is so they have somewhere where they can go and meet up.

That they can call there own they could get planning permission yes but how many councils do you really think won't be biased against them just because the way they choose to live.

Reply 68

Reflexive

Appalled lol. Well that's fine you sit there are be appalled.

Reply 69

miscellaneous123

Original post by Reflexive

If you're born a traveller you have 4 times the rate of coronary diseases and 4-6 the rate of diabetes, and an average life expectancy about 20 years below the general population. Do you choose where you're born?

Truer words have never been spoken

Reply 70

CharlieNoir

I don't like to generalise groups but I've never heard of anyone who's had a good experience with a traveller. Every year they come to my town with fair ground rides and there's always so many burglaries in the local area, one year massive fights broke out and they were stabbing people with knives and screwdrivers D:

Reply 71

fuzzybear

Original post by Smilingsam

You don't understand the whole argument about dale farm is that it is illegal and they are breaking the law well there is a law in place that means the council have to set up sites for travellers.

Yes ideally that is what most of us want, not sure if that is reflected on this website, seem to be a lot of students that don't care why people are treated different.

Yes of course it would be better to encourage integration however this isn't going to happen you will always have the ignorance there because as soon as there is one bad apple everyone turns into a bad apple.

Also if you ask most people they will say travelers should just settle down and move into houses. What houses are these that people talk about, there are already people crying out for houses which can not obtain them. So travelers are doing this country a favor.

Travelers at dale farm want to have a permanent base for the winter months and somewhere they can call home, but they want to keep moving for the rest of the year. They live more than a lot of the people in this country although there life expectancy is lower.

Left this part till last because I wanted to answer the other parts first, the reason I would create a site like dale farm is so they have somewhere where they can go and meet up.

That they can call there own they could get planning permission yes but how many councils do you really think won't be biased against them just because the way they choose to live.

I do understand the whole issue about council's obligation to provide specific pieces of land for travellers. I'm not disputing it, rather I was arguing against the whole basis for this need. It all comes down to fairness, no other ethnic groups in this country make such demands, so personally I feel that if travellers want to engage in the sort of lifestyle they deem as part of their culture, they should find the means to do this by themselves - namely as I've described before - instead of relying or impeding on others.

Original post by Smilingsam

Not entirely sure what you mean here...

Original post by Smilingsam

Also if you ask most people they will say travelers should just settle down and move into houses. What houses are these that people talk about, there are already people crying out for houses which can not obtain them. So travelers are doing this country a favor.

I was arguing that councils shouldn't do anything to encourage further separation which you're idea would serve to make. I think travellers should be left to their own devices when it comes to finding somewhere to live - councils shouldn't have to purposely create sites for them. They'll be able to make their own indvidual choices about whether to fork out on a piece of land and apply planning permission, or go into housing like the rest of us. This way, a large proportion if not all of them should eventually come to the conclusion that living in houses is easier - I'm just advocating that we leave simple economics take its course. There is a housing shortage right now, but thats this won't continue forever, and nearly all of us get by just fine right now - be it renting or buying. Apparently there are only around 30000 travellers in this country, I don't see much difference/problem if all of them go into housing, we certainly won't see a huge hike in prices or anything like that. Besides I'm not expecting an immediate changes in the traveller's communities, they should make their own choices about their future with the resources they have, so any changes would be gradual.

Original post by Smilingsam

the reason I would create a site like dale farm is so they have somewhere where they can go and meet up.

That they can call there own they could get planning permission yes but how many councils do you really think won't be biased against them just because the way they choose to live.

No problem with them meeting up for events, so long as a) they abide by the law, b) they're not a nuisiance to neighbours, most importantly c) they pay for a site by themselves and get planning permission like any other ethnic community. As for possible bias in giving planning permission, well if there are people in high positions who are allowing for the rules taht ensures councils have to provide exclusive sites for them, why can't you trust the judgement of planning permission officials? Is there something particular about planning permission officials that makes them more susceptible to bias?

Reply 72

DirtyPrettyThing

Original post by Mr. Approachable

We don't have Pikey's or Gypsies where I live. If they arrive they don't have time to turn the ignition off before they are mobbed by locals. Very conservative area.

A shame all of England isn't as robust dealing with lawbreaking as your area.

Reply 73

Mr. Approachable

Original post by DirtyPrettyThing

A shame all of England isn't as robust dealing with lawbreaking as your area.

I wouldn't sat that. Groups of people just generally don't allow themselves to be walked all over.

Reply 74

DirtyPrettyThing

Original post by Mr. Approachable

I wouldn't sat that. Groups of people just generally don't allow themselves to be walked all over.

Yeah, but "not being walked over" isn't PC these days is it... Must bend over backwards to accomodate anything, not being a pussy is seen as authoritarian and whatnot.