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D&D Theology's "Ask About Islam" Thread Mk. IV
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Original post by Molts
Out of interest, what does Islam think of Socialism?
And I'm refering to the orthodox use of the word, not the way it’s thrown about these days.
And I'm refering to the orthodox use of the word, not the way it’s thrown about these days.
Muhammad Qutb's Islam: The Misunderstood Religion is a good comparative work between Islam and other political, economic, and social systems: IslamBasics.
Not sure of anything more specific, someone else may know or you could try searching here.
Original post by HaHaLOL
AssalaamuAlaikum 
Can you elaborate on your point abit more?
If I understand correctly - what you're saying is that the rules revealed to us by Allah s.w.t dont apply to us anymore?
If you agree that interest was haraam at that time, regardless of the situation, then why do you think it is not haraam at this time regardless of situation?
Do you think Allah s.w.t only revealed the Qur'an and the rules within it only for the people alive at the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?
"Say, "What thing is greatest in testimony?" Say, " Allah is witness between me and you. And this Qur'an was revealed to me that I may warn you thereby and whomever it reaches. Do you [truly] testify that with Allah there are other deities?" Say, "I will not testify [with you]." Say, "Indeed, He is but one God, and indeed, I am free of what you associate [with Him]." (Qur'an - Surah Al An'am 6:19)
Now Im not saying that there arent certain exceptions in very limited cases and out of necessity (life or death situations) - but it's not up to us to make blanket statements about certain rulings and say they don't apply anymore in this day and age.
Feel free to correct
And Allah knows best.
Can you elaborate on your point abit more?
If I understand correctly - what you're saying is that the rules revealed to us by Allah s.w.t dont apply to us anymore?
If you agree that interest was haraam at that time, regardless of the situation, then why do you think it is not haraam at this time regardless of situation?
Do you think Allah s.w.t only revealed the Qur'an and the rules within it only for the people alive at the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?
"Say, "What thing is greatest in testimony?" Say, " Allah is witness between me and you. And this Qur'an was revealed to me that I may warn you thereby and whomever it reaches. Do you [truly] testify that with Allah there are other deities?" Say, "I will not testify [with you]." Say, "Indeed, He is but one God, and indeed, I am free of what you associate [with Him]." (Qur'an - Surah Al An'am 6:19)
Now Im not saying that there arent certain exceptions in very limited cases and out of necessity (life or death situations) - but it's not up to us to make blanket statements about certain rulings and say they don't apply anymore in this day and age.
Feel free to correct
And Allah knows best.
Can you think of any alternative to the situation in this country? No? Then it's halal.
Original post by MyselfEtAl
Can you think of any alternative to the situation in this country? No? Then it's halal.
LOLL you have got to be kidding.
No offense sis - Allah s.w.t Himself has forbidden interest in the Qur'an
Spoiler
You can not just come on here and issue fatwa that it is Halaal!!
Present people with the facts not your own opinions. If they feel that they have an exceptional case, and can be excused due to necessity, then we should advise them to consult shuyookh who can advise them much better than us.
But the overall, general message we should be giving is that it is haraam full stop. Fear Allah sis! Seriously I dont want to sound harsh, but we are going to be held accountable for what we say! you are directly contradicting the Qur'an!
Please dont take this the wrong way sis - Im sincerely trying to advise you because I want good for my muslim brothers and sisters.
Allah knows best.
Please correct me if i said anything wrong.
Original post by MyselfEtAl
Can you think of any alternative to the situation in this country? No? Then it's halal.
The alternative to interest is the Islamic way of finance and banking. The system of Zakat.
Surah Al Baqarah has laid down the Islamic way of lending and borrowing.
Interest is the most harmful thing today. It has caused this financial meltdown and it rapidly leading to war.
Interest is truly a evil thing for society, look at how many thousands, probably millions of ordinary people have suffered and lost their homes and properties because of interest while 1% of rich bankers and the like have benefited at the expense of the common people.
Holy Quran on Prohibition of Interest
The word used in connection with interest in the Quran is Riba, the connotation of which is not identical with that of the word "interest" as commonly understood. Riba is prohibited because it tends to draw wealth into the hands of a small circle and to restrict the exercise of beneficence towards one's fellow beings. In the case of loans which bear interest, the lender in effect takes advantage of, and makes profit from, the need or distress of another.
2:276. Those who devour interest do not rise except as rises one whom Satan has smitten with insanity. That is because they say: 'Trade also is like interest;' whereas Allah has made trade lawful and made interest unlawful. So he to whom an admonition comes from his Lord and he desists, then will that which he received in the past be his; and his affair is with Allah. And those who revert to it, they are the inmates of the Fire; therein shall they abide.
2:277. Allah abolishes interest and causes charity to increase. And Allah loves not anyone who is a confirmed disbeliever and an arch-sinner.
2:278. Surely, those who believe and do good deeds and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat shall have their reward from their Lord, and no fear shall come on them, nor shall they grieve.
2:279. O ye who believe! fear Allah and relinquish what remains of interest, if you are believers.
2:280. But if you do it not, then beware of war from Allah and His Messenger; and if you repent, then you shall have your original sums; thus you shall not wrong, nor shall you be wronged.
2:281. And if any debtor be in straitened circumstances, then grant him respite till a time of ease. And that you remit it as charity shall be better for you, if only you knew.
2:282. And fear the day when you shall be made to return to Allah; then shall every soul be paid in full what it has earned; and they shall not be wronged.
The word used in connection with interest in the Quran is Riba, the connotation of which is not identical with that of the word "interest" as commonly understood. Riba is prohibited because it tends to draw wealth into the hands of a small circle and to restrict the exercise of beneficence towards one's fellow beings. In the case of loans which bear interest, the lender in effect takes advantage of, and makes profit from, the need or distress of another.
2:276. Those who devour interest do not rise except as rises one whom Satan has smitten with insanity. That is because they say: 'Trade also is like interest;' whereas Allah has made trade lawful and made interest unlawful. So he to whom an admonition comes from his Lord and he desists, then will that which he received in the past be his; and his affair is with Allah. And those who revert to it, they are the inmates of the Fire; therein shall they abide.
2:277. Allah abolishes interest and causes charity to increase. And Allah loves not anyone who is a confirmed disbeliever and an arch-sinner.
2:278. Surely, those who believe and do good deeds and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat shall have their reward from their Lord, and no fear shall come on them, nor shall they grieve.
2:279. O ye who believe! fear Allah and relinquish what remains of interest, if you are believers.
2:280. But if you do it not, then beware of war from Allah and His Messenger; and if you repent, then you shall have your original sums; thus you shall not wrong, nor shall you be wronged.
2:281. And if any debtor be in straitened circumstances, then grant him respite till a time of ease. And that you remit it as charity shall be better for you, if only you knew.
2:282. And fear the day when you shall be made to return to Allah; then shall every soul be paid in full what it has earned; and they shall not be wronged.
Original post by HaHaLOL
AssalaamuAlaikum
Can you elaborate on your point abit more?
If I understand correctly - what you're saying is that the rules revealed to us by Allah s.w.t dont apply to us anymore?
If you agree that interest was haraam at that time, regardless of the situation, then why do you think it is not haraam at this time regardless of situation?
Do you think Allah s.w.t only revealed the Qur'an and the rules within it only for the people alive at the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?
"Say, "What thing is greatest in testimony?" Say, " Allah is witness between me and you. And this Qur'an was revealed to me that I may warn you thereby and whomever it reaches. Do you [truly] testify that with Allah there are other deities?" Say, "I will not testify [with you]." Say, "Indeed, He is but one God, and indeed, I am free of what you associate [with Him]." (Qur'an - Surah Al An'am 6:19)
Now Im not saying that there arent certain exceptions in very limited cases and out of necessity (life or death situations) - but it's not up to us to make blanket statements about certain rulings and say they don't apply anymore in this day and age.
Feel free to correct
And Allah knows best.
Can you elaborate on your point abit more?
If I understand correctly - what you're saying is that the rules revealed to us by Allah s.w.t dont apply to us anymore?
If you agree that interest was haraam at that time, regardless of the situation, then why do you think it is not haraam at this time regardless of situation?
Do you think Allah s.w.t only revealed the Qur'an and the rules within it only for the people alive at the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?
"Say, "What thing is greatest in testimony?" Say, " Allah is witness between me and you. And this Qur'an was revealed to me that I may warn you thereby and whomever it reaches. Do you [truly] testify that with Allah there are other deities?" Say, "I will not testify [with you]." Say, "Indeed, He is but one God, and indeed, I am free of what you associate [with Him]." (Qur'an - Surah Al An'am 6:19)
Now Im not saying that there arent certain exceptions in very limited cases and out of necessity (life or death situations) - but it's not up to us to make blanket statements about certain rulings and say they don't apply anymore in this day and age.
Feel free to correct
And Allah knows best.
Original post by ak137
Lol can i answer your question too?
Although the Allah says interest loans are haraam, back in the Prophets (pbuh) day, there was no university - not everything we do today that wasnt there in the prophets time is a sin. Theres also many verses in quran if i remember correctly that say gaining knowledge is important
Although the Allah says interest loans are haraam, back in the Prophets (pbuh) day, there was no university - not everything we do today that wasnt there in the prophets time is a sin. Theres also many verses in quran if i remember correctly that say gaining knowledge is important
Original post by MyselfEtAl
Can you think of any alternative to the situation in this country? No? Then it's halal.
I think HaHaLOL has brought up a good point. The point is whether something that was declared haram at the time of the Prophet (PBUH) would become halal if the situation has changed.
I don't think that this should be the case especially with things like usury.
An example is that some scholars will argue that all images of animate objects are haram, while some would only declare it to be haram if the picture is glorifying the animate object and/or if the picture is hang up on the wall, arguing that the ruling (images of animate objects forbidden) was in place to avoid falling into idol worship and polytheism which Islam came about to irradiate. I agree of the latter opinion, but one should be careful not to transgress limits.
We need to strive together to avoid doing the things that are forbidden to us, like this situation with taking a loan, as many have argued, some scholars state that if there is no other way then one can take a loan, but try to pay back as much as possible of it to reduce the amount of interest one gains on it. Some scholars will argue that going to university is not compulsory and therefore taking a loan out is haram. Of course going to university vs not going to university can make a really big difference in one's life. One could say that both routes are sources of evil and one must take the one with the lesser evil. (See my previous post here)
In all cases, we always need to see if there is a halal way out, even if its a tougher route. We need to be careful to not go ahead with the excuse of making things halal that were haram, because 'times changed' as some groups of Christians and Jews have done with 'reforming' their religion. It has already started within Islam, e.g. Irshad Manji.
Anyway, I am not a scholar, I am only elaborating on what scholars have said. Here I am providing a scholarly opinion posted previously in this thread:
http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-the-scholar/financial-issues/usury/169453.html
May Allah guide us all.
Original post by HaHaLOL
LOLL you have got to be kidding.
No offense sis - Allah s.w.t Himself has forbidden interest in the Qur'an
You can not just come on here and issue fatwa that it is Halaal!!
Present people with the facts not your own opinions. If they feel that they have an exceptional case, and can be excused due to necessity, then we should advise them to consult shuyookh who can advise them much better than us.
But the overall, general message we should be giving is that it is haraam full stop. Fear Allah sis! Seriously I dont want to sound harsh, but we are going to be held accountable for what we say! you are directly contradicting the Qur'an!
Please dont take this the wrong way sis - Im sincerely trying to advise you because I want good for my muslim brothers and sisters.
Allah knows best.
Please correct me if i said anything wrong.
No offense sis - Allah s.w.t Himself has forbidden interest in the Qur'an
Spoiler
You can not just come on here and issue fatwa that it is Halaal!!
Present people with the facts not your own opinions. If they feel that they have an exceptional case, and can be excused due to necessity, then we should advise them to consult shuyookh who can advise them much better than us.
But the overall, general message we should be giving is that it is haraam full stop. Fear Allah sis! Seriously I dont want to sound harsh, but we are going to be held accountable for what we say! you are directly contradicting the Qur'an!
Please dont take this the wrong way sis - Im sincerely trying to advise you because I want good for my muslim brothers and sisters.
Allah knows best.
Please correct me if i said anything wrong.
Salaam,
I don't think you got my point. Of course interest is haram, however, you can't avoid it in this country. It's next to impossible, therefore ŷou should take tw loan with the intention of repaying as much of it as ŷou possibly can, as quick as you can.
What exactly do ŷou propose us Muslim students do then? Not go to university?
Original post by MyselfEtAl
Salaam,
I don't think you got my point. Of course interest is haram, however, you can't avoid it in this country. It's next to impossible, therefore ŷou should take tw loan with the intention of repaying as much of it as ŷou possibly can, as quick as you can.
What exactly do ŷou propose us Muslim students do then? Not go to university?
I don't think you got my point. Of course interest is haram, however, you can't avoid it in this country. It's next to impossible, therefore ŷou should take tw loan with the intention of repaying as much of it as ŷou possibly can, as quick as you can.
What exactly do ŷou propose us Muslim students do then? Not go to university?
yes
it is not obligatory to go to university is it?
so what your saying is if your religion wants something of you that is hard you abandon it?
this is a trial of the western Muslim we must not be infected with a progressive mentality
Original post by getoom
yes
it is not obligatory to go to university is it?
so what your saying is if your religion wants something of you that is hard you abandon it?
this is a trial of the western Muslim we must not be infected with a progressive mentality
it is not obligatory to go to university is it?
so what your saying is if your religion wants something of you that is hard you abandon it?
this is a trial of the western Muslim we must not be infected with a progressive mentality
Of course not, but then how are you supposed to live in this country? Everything is based on interest. How do you plan on getting a car, mortgage, holiday, etc without taking a loan?
Original post by MyselfEtAl
Of course not, but then how are you supposed to live in this country? Everything is based on interest. How do you plan on getting a car, mortgage, holiday, etc without taking a loan?
By saving up for it. Mortgage is understandable, but even then it is possible to live in a house by paying rent (it is arguable that by paying rent you are effectively paying someone else's mortgage on that property, so it's not justified anyway). But you can do without a fancy car or a holiday so I would say it's haraam to take a loan out for those things.
Original post by Straight up G
By saving up for it . Mortgage is understandable, but even then it is possible to live in a house by paying rent (it is arguable that by paying rent you are effectively paying someone else's mortgage on that property, so it's not justified anyway). But you can do without a fancy car or a holiday so I would say it's haraam to take a loan out for those things.
Which is next to impossible for some people.
Meh, if that what your scholars say, then I guess you should follow them
Original post by MyselfEtAl
Which is next to impossible for some people.
Meh, if that what your scholars say, then I guess you should follow them
Meh, if that what your scholars say, then I guess you should follow them
this is not what scholars say this is what the Quraan says
Allah and His Messenger (saws) have indeed declared the receiving and paying of interest
it was next to impossible for the sahabaa to take the torture they had to go through and they did not denounce Islam or compromise
it is next to impossible to turn a corner in Britain and see a Haraam so we should not try to avoid it then according to your logic
living in this diverse western country there are also always opportunities
maybe a mortgage would be justified but going back to student loans it is not obligatory to go to university or you even get a bursary or scholarship or ask family members
if you want to turn a blind eye to clear proof and make it so that everything becomes halal because were living in a western country so be it
Original post by getoom
this is not what scholars say this is what the Quraan says
Allah and His Messenger (saws) have indeed declared the receiving and paying of interest
it was next to impossible for the sahabaa to take the torture they had to go through and they did not denounce Islam or compromise
it is next to impossible to turn a corner in Britain and see a Haraam so we should not try to avoid it then according to your logic
living in this diverse western country there are also always opportunities
maybe a mortgage would be justified but going back to student loans it is not obligatory to go to university or you even get a bursary or scholarship or ask family members
if you want to turn a blind eye to clear proof and make it so that everything becomes halal because were living in a western country so be it
Allah and His Messenger (saws) have indeed declared the receiving and paying of interest
it was next to impossible for the sahabaa to take the torture they had to go through and they did not denounce Islam or compromise
it is next to impossible to turn a corner in Britain and see a Haraam so we should not try to avoid it then according to your logic
living in this diverse western country there are also always opportunities
maybe a mortgage would be justified but going back to student loans it is not obligatory to go to university or you even get a bursary or scholarship or ask family members
if you want to turn a blind eye to clear proof and make it so that everything becomes halal because were living in a western country so be it
Okay, so what on earth do you lot plan to do? Not go to university?
Original post by getoom
maybe a mortgage would be justified but going back to student loans it is not obligatory to go to university or you even get a bursary or scholarship or ask family members
This is hilarious, you're asking to find a family member, bursary, or scholarship, that will pay for 9 grand of tuition fees and an average of 8 grand living costs for 3 years? 51k out of family members, bursaries, or scholarships? Even if you say that someone could live at home etc, that's completely unreasonable. And then there's poor sods like me who'll be at uni for 5/6 years hopefully, could you find me someone that's willing to give me a quick 100k boost before I start?
University is not obligatory, but education IS obligatory, and if you do your best to pay it off as quickly as reasonably possible, then imo there is no sin in taking out student loans.
How does Islam combat reduced lending due to the lack of profit made by banks through interest (ie there is no motivation to lend)?
Original post by MyselfEtAl
Okay, so what on earth do you lot plan to do? Not go to university?
anything that has its basis in haraam is haraam like a mosque built with a loan with interest will the person be rewarded for building the mosque? no
Abu Hurayrah narrated that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “Whoever illegally collects money and then gives it in charity, he will not be awarded for it, but rather he will be sinful” (Ibn Haban and Al-Hakim).
just like education
charity is a must but if the money was gathered in an illegal way then it is haraam
Original post by Straight up G
This is hilarious, you're asking to find a family member, bursary, or scholarship, that will pay for 9 grand of tuition fees and an average of 8 grand living costs for 3 years? 51k out of family members, bursaries, or scholarships? Even if you say that someone could live at home etc, that's completely unreasonable. And then there's poor sods like me who'll be at uni for 5/6 years hopefully, could you find me someone that's willing to give me a quick 100k boost before I start?
University is not obligatory, but education IS obligatory, and if you do your best to pay it off as quickly as reasonably possible, then imo there is no sin in taking out student loans.
University is not obligatory, but education IS obligatory, and if you do your best to pay it off as quickly as reasonably possible, then imo there is no sin in taking out student loans.
see above^
Original post by getoom
see above^
You can't give an alternative to student loans.
Would you like to produce an uneducated and backwards ummah, or a successful one albeit with the 'sin' of student loans.
And you're transposing education into an analogy about charity, two fundamentally different things.
Original post by Straight up G
You can't give an alternative to student loans.
Why can't you use an Islamic bank? Don't they offer the right type of loan?
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