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Original post by noisy06
The thing is, your opinion doesn't matter.


It's not an opinion if it contradicts the very definition of all-loving.
The problem of Evil - Sheikh Hamza Yusuf Hanson

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Reply 1382
Original post by VeniViciVidi
It's not an opinion if it contradicts the very definition of all-loving.


Original post by VeniViciVidi
Sounds a bit of a **** if you ask me knowingly do that and knowingly knowing that religious violence because of traditional religious allegiance would ensue.

Not exactly all-loving.



Unlike how Christians describe God - He has more attributes than being all-Loving, like being Most just.

You say that like it's only people who go to extremes based on religion that cause violence. Anyway, it is peoples free will which makes them do wrong, not religion itself.
Original post by Tpos
Anyway, it is peoples free will which makes them do wrong, not religion itself.


Then why did god create us as sinful beings? What about people incapable of digesting moral code? It's like the game is rigged from the start for those people.
Reply 1384
Original post by VeniViciVidi
It's not an opinion if it contradicts the very definition of all-loving.

Actually it is just an insignificant opinion that you have.
Reply 1385
Original post by VeniViciVidi
Then why did god create us as sinful beings? What about people incapable of digesting moral code? It's like the game is rigged from the start for those people.

How do you know people's judgement? Stop pretending you know things that you are ignorant of.
Original post by noisy06
How do you know people's judgement? Stop pretending you know things that you are ignorant of.



I dunno, perhaps years and years of dedicated neurological medical journals that explain psychopathic and sociopathic individuals with no ability to distinguish right or wrong and merely act on instincts and impulses?

I'm merely asking questions. I would think that would be able to adequately address my ignorance to elementary questions sufficiently being a follower of the universal truth.
Reply 1387
Original post by noisy06
Actually it is just an insignificant opinion that you have.



Original post by noisy06
How do you know people's judgement? Stop pretending you know things that you are ignorant of.


Could you try being patient and respectful or just avoid replying?
Original post by VeniViciVidi
Then why did god create us as sinful beings? What about people incapable of digesting moral code? It's like the game is rigged from the start for those people.

We may sin but that is the test - will we worship God, will we come back to Him after sinning. Just because we sin, doesn't make us inherently bad.

Those who are mentally disabled will be tested on the day of judgement rather than now
Reply 1388
Original post by VeniViciVidi
I dunno, perhaps years and years of dedicated neurological medical journals that explain psychopathic and sociopathic individuals with no ability to distinguish right or wrong and merely act on instincts and impulses?

I'm merely asking questions. I would think that would be able to adequately address my ignorance to elementary questions sufficiently being a follower of the universal truth.

No, I said people's judgement, as in what judgement they will be handed by God. You have no idea what awaits people so going around pretending to be asking intelligent questions isn't an antidote to ignorance.
Original post by noisy06
Actually it is just an insignificant opinion that you have.


Well, that's just not true now is it? If I murdered a certain group of people and favoured another group of people, how could I say I love them all equally? It goes against the definition of 'all-loving' - that is a fact, not an opinion. And personally, in my opinion, it was quite a significant fact.

Tell me, why don't you question your own beliefs? Surely you must think "Actually, that doesn't seem quite right" or are you that tunnel-visioned and will just resort to calling my facts 'insignificant' without properly addressing them?
Reply 1390
Original post by VeniViciVidi
Well, that's just not true now is it? If I murdered a certain group of people and favoured another group of people, how could I say I love them all equally? It goes against the definition of 'all-loving' - that is a fact, not an opinion. And personally, in my opinion, it was quite a significant fact.

Tell me, why don't you question your own beliefs? Surely you must think "Actually, that doesn't seem quite right" or are you that tunnel-visioned and will just resort to calling my facts 'insignificant' without properly addressing them?

There is no concept of God loving everyone equally in Islam, especially in the manner that you put it. It's called a strawman, you create your own argument and then proceed to refute it, thereby giving yourself the delusion that you have refuted Islam. Bravo.
Original post by Tpos
Could you try being patient and respectful or just avoid replying?

We may sin but that is the test - will we worship God, will we come back to Him after sinning. Just because we sin, doesn't make us inherently bad.

Those who are mentally disabled will be tested on the day of judgement rather than now


So if life is a test and people who are mentally disabled will be tested after their life then why do they need to live a life of suffering if it contributes nothing to their life after death?

Original post by noisy06
No, I said people's judgement, as in what judgement they will be handed by God. You have no idea what awaits people so going around pretending to be asking intelligent questions isn't an antidote to ignorance.


Surely that's god's judgement of the people? I still don't understand the flux in the moral code of the god though, can you explain to me why christians see god as more-loving in your eyes than how muslims see god?
Original post by noisy06
There is no concept of God loving everyone equally in Islam, especially in the manner that you put it. It's called a strawman, you create your own argument and then proceed to refute it, thereby giving yourself the delusion that you have refuted Islam. Bravo.


Hmm, interesting. I was under the impression that Islam followed the Christian philosophy of god being an all-loving entity. So do you feel coerced into believing god? Because if you don't love him, then he doesn't love you and the power is in his court, isn't it? I'm not refuting Islam either, I'm just asking questions and formulating an impression on the answers you give me.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 1393
Original post by VeniViciVidi

Surely that's god's judgement of the people? I still don't understand the flux in the moral code of the god though, can you explain to me why christians see god as more-loving in your eyes than how muslims see god?

Yes, you don't understand much, I agree. I would encourage perhaps getting off your backside and reading the Qur'an perhaps? It's slightly more fun engaging with informed questions rather than endless ignorant ones.
Reply 1394
Original post by VeniViciVidi
Hmm, interesting. I was under the impression that Islam followed the Christian philosophy of god being an all-loving entity. So do you feel coerced into believing god? Because if you don't love him, then he doesn't love you and the power is in his court, isn't it? I'm not refuting Islam either, I'm just asking questions and formulating an impression on the answers you give me.

The power is always in his court, unconditionally.
Reply 1395
Original post by VeniViciVidi
So if life is a test and people who are mentally disabled will be tested after their life then why do they need to live a life of suffering if it contributes nothing to their life after death?

-No one's suffering is in vain - people are forgiven for sins through pain (but that is only one way and it is not something you should wish for or try to stay in a bad situation)
-Sometimes people etc can be a trial for others, e.g. the parent of an ill child.
However I'm not entirely sure about the ins and outs of this and they may be someone with more information on this.

Surely that's god's judgement of the people? I still don't understand the flux in the moral code of the god though, can you explain to me why christians see god as more-loving in your eyes than how muslims see god?


God is not less loving than how He is described by Christians, he's just not ONLY the most-loving.

Just a note to everyone The way Noisy is talking does not represent the way the Prophet (peace be upon him) taught Muslims to talk to others.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by noisy06
The power is always in his court, unconditionally.


Who do you think invented god though? And also, why the need to test us in the first place? I mean, we may have not even evolved into humans anyway. What happened to people in like 10000BC before monotheistic traditions?
Original post by Tpos
-No one's suffering is in vain - people are forgiven for sins through pain (but that is only one way and it is not something you should wish for or try to stay in a bad situation)
-Sometimes people etc can be a trial for others, e.g. the parent of an ill child.
However I'm not entirely sure about the ins and outs of this and they may be someone with more information on this.



God is not less loving than how He is described by Christians, he's just not ONLY the most-loving.

Just a note to everyone The way Noisy is talking does not represent the way the Prophet (peace be upon him) taught Muslims to talk to others.


So they have to suffer even though they did nothing wrong? That's a bit off. So what happened to humans before civilization occurred? That question has always intrigued me and do you completely eradicate the possibility that religion was constructed purely for imperial control of large territories under the premise of immorality would result in pain, anguish and torture in the 'after life'?

So if he is all-loving, why would god bestow us into a world where survival and power are incredibly more important in order to survive than moral codes? And why did he condition our instincts this way?
Reply 1397
Original post by VeniViciVidi
Who do you think invented god though? And also, why the need to test us in the first place? I mean, we may have not even evolved into humans anyway. What happened to people in like 10000BC before monotheistic traditions?


So they have to suffer even though they did nothing wrong? That's a bit off. So what happened to humans before civilization occurred? That question has always intrigued me and do you completely eradicate the possibility that religion was constructed purely for imperial control of large territories under the premise of immorality would result in pain, anguish and torture in the 'after life'?

So if he is all-loving, why would god bestow us into a world where survival and power are incredibly more important in order to survive than moral codes? And why did he condition our instincts this way?

What a troll. If you're not here to ask sensible questions, make your way out.
Original post by noisy06
What a troll. If you're not here to ask sensible questions, make your way out.


Why aren't they sensible?
Reply 1399
Original post by VeniViciVidi
Why aren't they sensible?

:facepalm: Asking Muslims who they think invented God is like asking Physicists why the theory of gravity is false. AKA loaded question.

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