Why do so many on the Left support the IRA?

One may argue that the Irish people exercised their democratic right when they showed their support for complete independence in the 1918 Irish General Election, with Sinn Fein winning 73 out a possilbe 105 seats.

The formation of the Northern Irish state could in no way be interpreted as the will of the democratic majority. It was, however, under the pretence of a "terrible and immediate war" that the terms stipulated in the Anglo-Irish treaty were to be accepted - such was the disregard for the will of the Irish people.

A treaty negotiated under the threat of war could in no way be accepted as an example of a fair and just democratic process.

Understand the present, in the context of history.

I would rather die before i ask any help from foreign powers who only work for their own interests.

Why don't you trot off to Syria or Bahrain then, if you hate the West so much. If you think us all so self-obsessed and evil.

I think you will find its you who is deflecting the point.

Another thing to point out, Gaddafi funded Sarkozy's election, the same french cheese eating monkey that was part of of the overthrow of Gaddafi .

Britain also trained these pro-gaddafi forces too, back in '09.
You cant just arm dictatorships and then expect them not to use those weapons on their people. What did you and david turdface think gaddafi was going to use those weapons for? Why do you use weapons for? Did you really think he was going to make peace with opposition with british weapons? Did you think it was going to be a fairy tale-everyone's happy-wonderland?

Oh and the turdface has just armed the dictatorship in Saudi Arabia (Bahrain too) . The same Saudi Arabia that sent its forces into Bahrain to suppress the protests, where is the no fly zone over Bahrain? Why does our government compare the life of a libyan to that of a Bahraini, like there's a difference?
Bahrain suppressed the protests this year as well (people were killed), why isnt this shown on the media? why isnt turdface speaking out, instead he's doing dodgy dealings with the petro-monarchies.

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Pointing out your foreign policy flaws and hypocrisy obviously makes me a hater of the west

You're general attitude makes me think you;d be better off away from us hypocrites. IN the fluffy wuffy Middle East where everyone is nice and tells the truth and only has the futherment of human kind in mind

Comment you made before - thats what an EDL member would say

If you were to look at the circumstances in Northern Ireland for young catholic men during the 60's/70's then I'd be amazed if you didn't have sympathy for the volunteers. These guys were faced with poverty, discrimiantion, attacks by unionists and a very one-sided RUC/British Army. The events of Bloody Sunday led to a wave of volunteers. That was truly dire circumstances so I can see why the PIRA was born from the civil rights movement at that time.

The point about them being irrelevant is that just because there is this increased tension, does not justify us lowering ourselves to their level, depending on one's perspective on it. It is a reason, but not an excuse.

Not from what I've been told. Brighton was ten years after the bombing of a pub in Birmingham. Hatred towards Irish people by people in the 70s was common (didn't John Lydon refer to it in his autobiography?).

vietnam got to do with this? we were never in there and it was a fundamentally different scenario anyway ... unless i missed the carpet bombing of londonderry?
yes i mean funding from irish abroad and the late gadaffi ... whats a few million pounds when you have an economy worth several hundred billion pounds and which continued to rise? so yes i would definitely call it petty cash.
are you really certain about that? this is not the vietcong we're talking about [since you referenced them] a few shootings and the occasional fertilizer bomb are not enough to deter a country ... the vietcong for instance were armed with all manner of weaponry from potty assault rifles up to artillery pieces and fighter bombers ... the IRA had nothing even close to such weaponry.

An interesting point. But let me put this to you.

Ireland, as it was. Ceded from the Union because a the population in that area did not want to remain a part of Britain. Why then, would you deny the right of the population of Northern Ireland, to effectivley, premptivley cede from Ireland, and to side with Britain? After all, it is still a population exercising their right to self determination. If you find one legitimate, then you must find the other to be so. Northern Ireland was not created through force, the population of NI wanted to remain British, for the most part. The threat of force was there to stop the IRA foricibly claiming NI into their Ireland, something which, ironically would have surely been as Imperialistic as any action Britain had taken.

Unless of course you consider all of this irrelevant because the population did not have the luck to live on the other side of a border.

My Mum and her siblings were young men and women in Northern Ireland during the 60's/70's, and they do not support the IRA, thank you.

They were never attacked or discrimminated against and have perfectly good jobs.

They grew up in poverty, but then, there were ten of them, and far less welfare benefits in those days. It never did them any harm and is a good reason we should cut all this crap we reward the lazy, workshy teenage-mothers etc with.

'The left'

We in 'the left' aren't as simple as 'the right' - we don't all support the same thing. Some are massively anti-imperialist and support taking Britain's perceived 'colonies' off of her no matter the human cost. Most others, such as me, support the right to choose.

If you truly understood what it was like before and after you'd agree with me. Often there were riots where stones and pieces of pavement were thrown at the soldiers, other stuff was thrown at them too like glass. They were spat on and so on.
Any soldier from any regiment got this treatment in certain area's at certain times but as you can imagine it was probably a pretty bad decision to do it against the Para's. The para's were generally feared by the "players." Sometimes it was noted that activity in Northern Ireland dwindled during the Para's tour out there because the Para's didn't take any crap.
Anyway, imagine getting that day in day out for a whole tour (which was sometimes much longer than the tours the soldiers are currently serving in A'stan.)

Now I'm not saying that it excuses what happenend, however it's hardly surprising. The final act of Bloody Sunday was terrible however what you must understand it that it was the result of months, years of aggravation, incitement, and provoking from the IRA and other such organisations.



No it wasn't really.



Yes well 99.9% of the time the British millitary does hold itself to a higher standard with high discipline so....yeah.



Indeed, some Para's claimed they saw weapons and frankly I wouldn't be surprised if there was the odd occasion when someone was shot and then had their weapons removed before the soldeirs got to the body, thereby making it seem like the soldiers had shot an unarmed man or woman.



Indeed, however you need to really accept the circumstances surronding the incident both before and after. Tension was very high.

Your ****ing pathetic, trying to justify Bloody Sunday.
The para scum where an invading force of terrorists who entered Derry that day and attacked civilians. The same scum then went off to ballymurphy and did it again. They should be given life or a death sentence for their crimes!

Ireland, as it was. Ceded from the Union because a the population in that area did not want to remain a part of Britain. Why then, would you deny the right of the population of Northern Ireland, to effectivley, premptivley cede from Ireland, and to side with Britain? After all, it is still a population exercising their right to self determination. If you find one legitimate, then you must find the other to be so.

Can't you just go back to the 1970s? People are actually trying to debate sensibly on this thread.

This is very true, if 32 counties was established you would expect the loyalists to revolt too. Then again this was also performed when Catholics were second class citizens in the Protestant Ascendancy. Thus their points may have been mooted instantly if the state had have done more to integrate Catholics and win over the civilians. The hardliners would still have existed, but in smaller number.

Your ****ing pathetic, trying to justify Bloody Sunday.
The para scum where an invading force of terrorists who entered Derry that day and attacked civilians. The same scum then went off to ballymurphy and did it again. They should be given life or a death sentence for their crimes!