[Svenjamin]

A president is nothing more than a figure head and orator for his party, and he sure is a great orator. I have difficulty believing any other democrat leader would be drastically different in terms of policies to be honest, the candidate races are just to turn elections into entertainment.

I don't see how there can be a 'best ever' president though - so much is due to the political environment at the time of their standing (good economic climate = an easier ride but maybe less of a chance to look like a hero, a war = an easy chance to criticise or laud a president) and there is so much bias in looking at past presidents.

[Texan88]

(Original post by Guerlain)
I certainly wouldn't say Obama is mediocre. I think he's an excellent president.

Congress is the problem.

Besides, given the climate you could never expect massive wide-sweeping changes. I'd say that given the state of the country he inherited he's actually made some very bold and progressive policies.

A good president would be able to put forth ideas that were made in such a way that both sides agreed. Or was able to make both sides agree on the same problem. He is FAR from an excellent president. Hell the Secretary of Energy is a moron that wants to raise our petrol prices to that of the EU for the hell of it. Not even joking. The guy wants to tax our petrol MORE because the government would make more money on it. It's freaking ridiculous. The entire obama cabinet is a bunch of ****ups that couldnt find their ass with both hands. When you actually have to live in the country and see exactly what he is doing and how much he is damning us in the future it makes you shudder.

Name 5 things he has "accomplished"

[anarchism101]

(Original post by Texan88)
Attachment 138152

That is my face when I read this thread. At first I was really expecting a bunch of obama nut huggers, but the fact of the matter is this post has single handedly restored my faith in the TSR community. The fact that you realize he has done barely anything to be warranted with any shred of difference from any other president is astounding.

At this point I was enthusiastically agreeing with you. And then it started to go wrong.....

LINCOLN was a GREAT president. EISENHOWER was a great president.

I'd still say they were both pretty bad. Not the worst by a long shot, but you're still keeping a bit of sense here.....

REAGAN was a great president.

......and then it all went out the window.

[Texan88]

(Original post by anarchism101)
At this point I was enthusiastically agreeing with you. And then it started to go wrong.....



I'd still say they were both pretty bad. Not the worst by a long shot, but you're still keeping a bit of sense here.....



......and then it all went out the window.

They all have their problems. But they distinguished themselves through their acts. Obama hasn't done any of the sort

[Guerlain]

(Original post by Texan88)
A good president would be able to put forth ideas that were made in such a way that both sides agreed. Or was able to make both sides agree on the same problem. He is FAR from an excellent president. Hell the Secretary of Energy is a moron that wants to raise our petrol prices to that of the EU for the hell of it. Not even joking. The guy wants to tax our petrol MORE because the government would make more money on it. It's freaking ridiculous. The entire obama cabinet is a bunch of ****ups that couldnt find their ass with both hands. When you actually have to live in the country and see exactly what he is doing and how much he is damning us in the future it makes you shudder.

Name 5 things he has "accomplished"

It wouldn't matter if he's the perfect president, your approach is your approach - and the nature of your congress means that regardless of the quality of the idea, any debate is reduced to squabbling and pathetic opposition from the opposite party.

Your comments about Steven Chu are simply wrong. There's no two ways about it. Have you just made that up or something?

And actually, I'd say that living outside the US is the greatest benefit. You're quite clearly a republican, and going by your thoughts on Steven Chu you're either completely ignorant or being fed propaganda through a republican outlet.

Five things he's accomplished?

1. Repealed DADT
2. American Recovery and Reinvestment Act
3. TARP
4. Affordable Care Act
5. Repealed the Bush administration's limits on stem cell research
6. Lily Ledbetter act
7. Vast financial reform law

There's 7 to start with......

[anarchism101]

(Original post by Texan88)
They all have their problems. But they distinguished themselves through their acts. Obama hasn't done any of the sort

Having 'distinguished yourself' does not necessarily make you a good guy.

[Guerlain]

(Original post by Texan88)
They all have their problems. But they distinguished themselves through their acts. Obama hasn't done any of the sort

No, you just don't know any of them.

[kopite493]

(Original post by Gnobe)
Does anyone think Obama is the greatest US president of all time??

For me he is, I think he's good role model for the world, he gives inspiring speeches week in week out and pretty much all round one of the smartest presidents they ever had. I also say it due to the historic nature of his presidency.

One of the very few presidents who has won the Nobel Peace Prize as well. His speeches draw in crowds of 100,000 - very few politicians I've seen can do ever on a regular basis like the way he can.

Would you agree??

Lincoln's achievements
1. Abraham Lincoln made the decision to fight to prevent the nation from splitting apart.

2. Abraham Lincoln was an unfaltering commander in chief during the Civil War which preserved the United States as one nation.

3. Abraham Lincoln's foreign policy was successful in preventing other countries from intervening in America's Civil War.

4. Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation which began the process of freedom for America's slaves. The document also allowed black soldiers to fight for the Union.

5. Abraham Lincoln was a strong supporter of the Thirteenth Amendment that formally ended slavery in the United States.

6. Legislation Abraham Lincoln signed into law included the Homestead Act, the Morrill Act, the National Banking Act, and a bill that chartered the first transcontinental railroad.

7. Abraham Lincoln set an example of strong character, leadership, and honesty which succeeding presidents tried to emulate

Barack Obama's achievements

1. first black president

damn this is such a difficult decision

[Texan88]

(Original post by Guerlain)
It wouldn't matter if he's the perfect president, your approach is your approach - and the nature of your congress means that regardless of the quality of the idea, any debate is reduced to squabbling and pathetic opposition from the opposite party.

Your comments about Steven Chu are simply wrong. There's no two ways about it. Have you just made that up or something?

And actually, I'd say that living outside the US is the greatest benefit. You're quite clearly a republican, and going by your thoughts on Steven Chu you're either completely ignorant or being fed propaganda through a republican outlet.

Five things he's accomplished?

1. Repealed DADT
2. American Recovery and Reinvestment Act
3. TARP
4. Affordable Care Act
5. Repealed the Bush administration's limits on stem cell research
6. Lily Ledbetter act
7. Vast financial reform law

There's 7 to start with......

1st I am not a republican. Hell I don't even get my news from a tv so I cant get my info from a news outlet that is biased like that.

As for chu he only changed his tune.

President Barack Obama’s Energy Secretary Steven Chu wants to “figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe.” At the time he made the statement, gas cost $7 – $8 a gallon in Europe.
Fact: Since taking office, President Obama’s entire energy agenda has made a gallon of gas more expensive:

Immediately after taking office in 2009, Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, canceled 77 leases for oil and gas drilling in Utah.

The EPA announced new rules mandating the use of 36 billion gallons worth of renewable fuels (like ethanol) by 2020.

All of these policies raise gas prices at the pump by either: 1) decreasing the availability of domestic energy supplies, or 2) increasing regulatory costs on gasoline production.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/200...energy-pi.html

“Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe,” Steven Chu, the director of the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, told the Wall Street Journal in September.

Chu said he favors gradually ramping up gasoline taxes over 15 years to nudge consumers into buying cars that are more fuel efficient and homes which are closer to work. Chu spoke with The Wall Street Journal in September but the newspaper did not publish the gas tax comments until last seek, shortly after the Nobel-prize winning physicist had been identified as Obama’s nominee for Energy secretary.

The president-elect acknowledges that gas prices have come down since the summer when they reached $4 per gallon. He worries, however, that the overall economic downturn makes American families ill-equipped to shoulder higher prices.

“I can imagine in the hearings Chu facing problems because he dares say, ‘higher prices,’” said Schipper. “But I think there is no solution that does not involve higher prices.”

Schipper, who shared a lab at Berkeley with Chu from 1972-74, estimates that the average cost of gasoline in Europe at present is somewhere between $7-9 per gallon.

Schipper thinks Obama’s concerns about not placing additional burdens on America’s families can be addressed by agreeing to rebate all — or close to all — of the money raised by higher fuel taxes.

“The answer is: raise the price of gasoline and give all the money back,” said Schipper.

Just a snippit from a a discussion on a different forum. Sorry kinda busy studying for a bio exam to go searching for all of it.

[Guerlain]

(Original post by Texan88)
1st I am not a republican. Hell I don't even get my news from a tv so I cant get my info from a news outlet that is biased like that.

As for chu he only changed his tune.

President Barack Obama’s Energy Secretary Steven Chu wants to “figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe.” At the time he made the statement, gas cost $7 – $8 a gallon in Europe.
Fact: Since taking office, President Obama’s entire energy agenda has made a gallon of gas more expensive:

Immediately after taking office in 2009, Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, canceled 77 leases for oil and gas drilling in Utah.

The EPA announced new rules mandating the use of 36 billion gallons worth of renewable fuels (like ethanol) by 2020.

All of these policies raise gas prices at the pump by either: 1) decreasing the availability of domestic energy supplies, or 2) increasing regulatory costs on gasoline production.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/200...energy-pi.html

“Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe,” Steven Chu, the director of the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, told the Wall Street Journal in September.

Chu said he favors gradually ramping up gasoline taxes over 15 years to nudge consumers into buying cars that are more fuel efficient and homes which are closer to work. Chu spoke with The Wall Street Journal in September but the newspaper did not publish the gas tax comments until last seek, shortly after the Nobel-prize winning physicist had been identified as Obama’s nominee for Energy secretary.

The president-elect acknowledges that gas prices have come down since the summer when they reached $4 per gallon. He worries, however, that the overall economic downturn makes American families ill-equipped to shoulder higher prices.

“I can imagine in the hearings Chu facing problems because he dares say, ‘higher prices,’” said Schipper. “But I think there is no solution that does not involve higher prices.”

Schipper, who shared a lab at Berkeley with Chu from 1972-74, estimates that the average cost of gasoline in Europe at present is somewhere between $7-9 per gallon.

Schipper thinks Obama’s concerns about not placing additional burdens on America’s families can be addressed by agreeing to rebate all — or close to all — of the money raised by higher fuel taxes.

“The answer is: raise the price of gasoline and give all the money back,” said Schipper.

Just a snippit from a a discussion on a different forum. Sorry kinda busy studying for a bio exam to go searching for all of it.

Ah - so he didn't want to increase pump prices to those of the EU, he wanted to increase barrel prices to that of the EU. That's not a discounted strategy at all. Many support it.

Prices certainly wouldn't come close to those in the UK. Barrel cost is not the issue in the UE - taxes are.

[InspectorSophie]

All talk, no balls. Makes all his decisions based on politics and the next election.
Half-arsed healthcare, financial reform and environmental policy, to name but three.

I think Hillary would have probably made a better president, especially when it comes to healthcare. Her name is already associated with universal healthcare, she wouldn't be losing any political capital for fighting for that one.

He has been terrible on civil liberties also. So so bad.

[Clumsy_Chemist]

His job isn't just to make impressive speeches. I'm sure lots have people have thought Presidents to be the best ever. Unless you're old enough to judge or have read some good biographies, don't jump to conclusions just because the guy sounds cool at the pulpit.

[cgraham15]

(Original post by Texan88)
You forget that Lincoln's first and only reason for continuing the civil war was to restore the union. He himself said that if he could restore the union without abolishing slavery he would do it. He was and IS the greatest president of all time. The man truly had the nations best interests in mind and would do anything and everything to keep his nation a unified country. He died trying to pursue that dream.

However, emancipation of the slaves was a main priority before the 1864 elections, when he was convinced that he would be voted out. Many meetings and letters etc to people such as Frederick Douglas prove this.

[Carecup]

(Original post by Classical Liberal)
What do you think Obama care is?

A Republican pandering bill that ended up not providing a decent universal healthcare system for which the US desperately needs, what with 50.7 million people (as of 2009) with no access to healthcare.

[Sharpshooter]

(Original post by Guerlain)
I certainly wouldn't say Obama is mediocre. I think he's an excellent president.

He's done a lot of bad stuff too.

1)NDAA
2)Expanded the Afghanistan from a height of 33,000 troops under Bush to 100,000 at his peak - nearly 2000 US troops have died
3)Extended Bush tax cuts for the rich
4)No arrest on bankers who caused the crisis, instead gave them loads
5)Extended Patriot act
6)Failed to close Guantamano bay
7)Warrentless wiretapping
8)Cuts to social security/medicare
9)Drone wars in several countries

To name a few. His approval ratings have been pretty poor too.

[pink pineapple]

(Original post by Gnobe)
Does anyone think Obama is the greatest US president of all time??

For me he is, I think he's good role model for the world, he gives inspiring speeches week in week out and pretty much all round one of the smartest presidents they ever had. I also say it due to the historic nature of his presidency.

One of the very few presidents who has won the Nobel Peace Prize as well. His speeches draw in crowds of 100,000 - very few politicians I've seen can do ever on a regular basis like the way he can.

Would you agree??

no, they're all things that contribute to his personality that you've listed there, apart from that he has done very much to benefit the U.S and they've found themselves in piles of debt.

[Ministerdonut]

Even a strong conservative like me was charmed by Obama,briefly in my case ,which might surprise some. I was never a fan of W, I was hugely against the misadventures in iraq and afghanistan,but I put the blame more on Blair for deranged thinking after his success in kosovo,as it was Blair who had the power to send our boys and girls in.People talk that Blair was bush's 'poodle' any research beyond the anti american left wing media vermin narrative shows it was rather different. Blair was passionately for war. The americans to their credit actually said they would be happy with a far more limited british presense in iraq for instance.

Anyway back to Obama, great speaker, nice seeming chap believed initially he might do some good, be realistic about afghanistan for instance.Sadly, in terms of foreign policy he is bush mk 2, in fact he has messed up the middle east even more I think we were quite wrong to help overthrow Gaddafi or get involved in egypt. I think through obamas actions a nasty war is far more likely than less. His fake mass apology tour was wrong as well, it is not only weak but very insincere. I also think his decision to get bin laden has been far more hyped than ought to be. Under Obama, it seems they are very willing to kill and assassinate without due process, that never happened under bush.

What also concerns me is despite his warmongering, his administration seems to resent the US military, the seeds were sown when I heard obama say in a speech he wanted to create civiilan national security force that was as powerful as the us military WTF? Just recently when the sec of defense visited a base in afghanistan ,US troops were disarmed ,that has never happened before in history and is very worrying. Not only that,but obamas different reaction to the deaths of the Afghan civvies by a nutty US soldier, compared to when a muslim us army officer slaughtered 13 US troops at a US base is frankly a disgrace.

Then we have Obamas tendency to take sides without knowing the full facts on a very emotional issue in america 'race'. Due to americas history regarding african americans there are tensions,but to me Obama is quick to jump to accuse or defend one side .I had hoped obama would bring people together, I had high hopes for a black president,but to me in history he will be known as the great divider. To me Obama has been a complete disappointment and if the republicans had a reagan despite almost all of the mainstream media and liberal hollywood being on obamas side, he would be out in a humiliating defeat.

However Iam concerned about the other 4 alternatives, I only like one newt gingrich but am realistic that he has little to no chance . To me all of them have serious weakness's going into an election and I do wonder about one in particular mitt romney who is a closet case liberal . His own advisor said he is only being conservative now to appeal to republicans, how on earth will the base turn out to vote for him? That leads me to wonder about romneys character, and what kind of president he would be. Iam not impressed at all by the front runner.

There are two I would like to have been in the race sarah palin and rudy gulliani. Both have broader appeal than the three 'not romneys' and both are not fakes 'romney'. If either of those two were up against obama it would be an honest clash of ideas and visions ,instead one side has a poor incumbent president that they will talk up despite their secret doubts, and the other side has a big fake who is being shoved down their throats and who changes his opinions like the wind.

[Classical Liberal]

(Original post by Carecup)
A Republican pandering bill that ended up not providing a decent universal healthcare system for which the US desperately needs, what with 50.7 million people (as of 2009) with no access to healthcare.

It was nothing of the sort.

Obamacare was never anything like the NHS.

It is going to be a piece of legislation level headed people will curse in the future.

[Made in the USA]

I have no idea kind of news the BBC is presenting over there for this thread to be taken as anything other than a complete joke. Have you guys looked at Obama's poll numbers? With the exception of the first six months of his presidency, his numbers have been pretty terrible. Since when does the "Greatest US President Of All Time" consistently poll below 50%?

[TheHistoryStudent]

(Original post by Gnobe)
Does anyone think Obama is the greatest US president of all time??

For me he is, I think he's good role model for the world, he gives inspiring speeches week in week out and pretty much all round one of the smartest presidents they ever had. I also say it due to the historic nature of his presidency.

One of the very few presidents who has won the Nobel Peace Prize as well. His speeches draw in crowds of 100,000 - very few politicians I've seen can do ever on a regular basis like the way he can.

Would you agree??

1) Good role model - why?

2) Good speeches - he is a good speaker, but that's part and parcel of being a politician/world leader, it doesn't make someone "great"

3) Smartest - don't really know, but I'd say you have to have some nouse about you to get to a position of power

4) Historic yes, but again, historic doesn't = great/greatnes

5) As a matter of interest why did he win the Nobel Peace Prize when he became President? Had he actually solved any world crisis/challenge to world peace?.... I could understand it if he managed to stop the 2 Koreas from being at each other's throats, solved Afghanistan or the Israel/Palestine conflict and so on - fact is he hasn't done any of that (yet anyway - fingers crossed...)