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British entrepreneur Simon Dolan says, "Degrees are worthless"

Reply 80

TurboCretin

20

Scatch that, none of his comments apart from the first one make sense.

Reply 81

dj1015

13

Original post by de_monies

Neither of these were mentioned either. I know that engineering is worth a lot, but it's not so special that it HAS to be mentioned on a bloody student forum

Engineering is special,

Where else can you to a lecture with 250 other people and only 9 of them be women?

thats my experience so far.....

Reply 82

FDR

10

So I suppose that since University degrees are worthless, the country would be better off without a highly educated and highly skilled workforce? Not only do Universities provide training for careers in Engineering, Medicine and Law, but skills from a wide range of subjects, from Physics, Maths and Economics to English and History, provide the workforce with the skills to take up highly technical jobs, the high value jobs that ensure that the UK remains amongst the largest economies in the world.

Reply 83

NB_ide

14

Original post by Dee Leigh

Another thing that is often pointed out is this: graduates tend to earn more over a lifetime than non-graduates, so a degree can't be totally useless.

That doesn't strictly follow, unfortunately. People with degrees tend to earn more over a lifetime, but that doesn't mean that for any given person getting a degree is going to cause them to earn more over their lifetime. The degree itself is likely not the only contributing factor to the higher earnings of graduates.

Anyway - as someone who graduated a number of years ago I have a broader perspective on things now and one thing you have to realise is that unless you are truly exceptional in ability in your field, whatever knowledge you gain from the degree will be largely useless on its own in getting a job. Especially in sciences, where the options are basically to attempt to become an academic for life, or get to the back of the queue and shoot for some 15k jobs with everyone else. 1st in Chemistry? Great, who gives a ****? You're stuck at 15-28k for the rest of your life, just like everyone else. That's fine for many people, I guess.

What gets people jobs is their general people skills and how they can manipulate (or call it influence, persuade, etc.) other people into thinking, feeling and doing what they lead them to. The boisterous, heavy-drinking school-leaver who knows lots of people and has some backbone will do a ****load better than a shy, loner nerdy type who goes to uni, keeps to himself, avoids social activities, maybe comes away with a 1st but zero understanding of how people and society really works.

For money you need to get into finance. That's about it. Or "business" IF you're incredibly assertive and basically a complete **** and think you might get lucky as well. Apart from that, a rare few snag very lucky jobs and quickly move up in a company and earn a decent amount, and then everyone else stays working towards 20k until they're well past 40.

Reply 84

The_Internet

20

Original post by Davethedavedave

Engineering is special,

Where else can you to a lecture with 250 other people and only 9 of them be women?

thats my experience so far.....

I'm not surprised if that's what we get either. On our campus, we get a ratio of 89:11 guys:girls, and a lot of the girls do health type courses. At best, we'd be getting around 22/23 girls, per 250 :biggrin:

Our campus is also worse than Imperial(marginally) Imperial have a ratio of 87:13 and we have a ratio of 89:11

I'm guessing the only reason why it's not picked on is because of the fact that the campus in another town balances every thing out

Reply 85

dj1015

13

Original post by de_monies

I'm not surprised if that's what we get either. On our campus, we get a ratio of 89:11 guys:girls, and a lot of the girls do health type courses. At best, we'd be getting around 22/23 girls, per 250 :biggrin:

Our campus is also worse than Imperial(marginally) Imperial have a ratio of 87:13 and we have a ratio of 89:11

I'm guessing the only reason why it's not picked on is because of the fact that the campus in another town balances every thing out

The textiles engineering (fashion) degree they run at our place is only women. I couldn't believe my eyes. They have a lecture right after one of my mathematics ones and its the best thing I have ever seen, if I did that course I would never learn anything.

He is an idiot.

His comment is stupid and reveals a typical ignorance about people from people who grew up in much more fortunate times. I mean it's so bloody easy for 16 year olds to go to the bank and get money to fund a new business nowadays, which are all guaranteed to be successful, that I'm surprised people are even bothering to do highers or a-levels these days. :rolleyes:

Most people on my course are getting multiple job offers for between £30K and £40K. These jobs were only open to those with degrees i.e. graduates. Compare that to those who I know left school at 16: they either went straight onto the dole, or took up low paying jobs. The lucky ones got apprenticeships.

So degrees in the right subjects definitely are a worthwhile investment - especially if you don't have the bank of mummy and daddy behind you.

But only in certain subjects.

Reply 88

avupa

Original post by Aramiss18

If you can't see how corporate power and wealth have a strong power over even western democracy then you're blind- cash for dinners with PM scandal recently? You can't separate capitalism and government.

I don't deny that corps and wealth can have a strong power over western democracy, but you said it yourself: you can't separate capitalism and government.

But you would blame and attack the system (the imperfect system - I'm not one of those types) that feeds you, while I would blame the government for being imperfect and would look for ways we could then, control and add blocks to what makes it imperfect - what makes it so easy for people from all over (not just corps) to take advantage of the 'power at the top', the power of 60 million people in this case, for whatever they see fit i.e. the fact that it's representative democracy and other time space stuff.

The criticism I put forward is that capitalist mentality only values degrees/knowledge that can lead to increased production/good jobs- not knowledge in general.

My first response would be*: Well what's wrong with that? + Gov pays for unis.

* Although, I hope you won't actually respond. I don't really want to be drawn into a long lengthy debate.

But I would also disagree with your criticism. The excess wealth (the goods and services) produced by the system has allowed for way more knowledge to be produced. People's basic needs are met with such little effort that they can now afford to spend much of their time consuming and creating knowledge. For example, people can research and think about all sorts of things and sell their knowledge in the form of books, documentaries and so on, or just give it away through mediums like the internet.

I don't disagree with any notion that the wealthy and their conspicuous consumption is wasteful imo in anyway btw. In fact, I would support a conspicuous consumption tax, where the purchasing of goods at excessive prices would get taxed at high rates to inhibit what I would consider as being wasteful consumerism (the hundred million dollar boats for example that depreciate at monstrous rates). At least I would if I knew more about it and had smarter people who knew more about economics and etc tell me that it wouldn't have obvious (to them) unintended consequences and if it maybe was tested out in the real world a little.

And those hippies are unhappy about gigantic wealth disparity, extortion and oppression- and they have a point.

Relative wealth and absolute wealth are different things. Corruption and etc again, is a fault more of the system and thus we should seek to remedy it. The oppression is by the state and all the people seeking to control it, not capitalism, and again, we should seek to remedy it. + We live in a global economy now, having people who win big monetary wise at a global level is not imo that shocking.

But again, what I feel really is the root of all this lefty hatred as I was hinting at in my earlier post, is the fact that most peoples expectations aren't being met. You feel to put it simply, that you aren't getting what you deserve. That you aren't getting what you were promised by all the powers that be - or rather, your teachers and so on. And don't worry, I sort of feel the same way. I just blame the government and the hippies instead.

Now brb, suicide. I've got a massive headache that just won't go away. Also, thanks for wasting my time.

edit. also we're derailing. + Lower expectations = Happiness.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 89

fuzznbass

10

Its funny, I was thinking of starting a thread about Simon's comments. I think he is only partially right - medicine needs degrees and rightfully so. I think he is thinking of the business world more.

Reply 90

hippy272

Original post by Dee Leigh

Another thing that is often pointed out is this: graduates tend to earn more over a lifetime than non-graduates, so a degree can't be totally useless.

Not in this day and age, if everyone has a degree of the same quality then the value will go down.

Reply 91

morecambebay

16

People need to seperate 'learning' from 'degree'. Of course learning is important, but there are better ways to learn than to get a degree and there are better ways to show that you have learnt something than by pulling out a certificate.

You think he made his money without learning anything? Or do you think maybe he just found better ways to learn?

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 92

NB_ide

14

Original post by Smack

Most people on my course are getting multiple job offers for between £30K and £40K.

What course? And if you can tell us, what uni?

Original post by NB_ide

What course? And if you can tell us, what uni?

I'm doing a MEng degree at Robert Gordon University in Aberdeen.

Those on the BEng course are finding it a bit more hit and miss. I know of two so far who have £30K offers despite only being able to get 2:2s. But there are quite a few who probably won't get any graduate level job offers.

I also know that the situation is the same across several other targeted Scottish universities, given that the oil is booming at the moment and companies are really ramping up their graduate intake. And notice I said "most" and not "all".

Reply 94

TurboCretin

20

Original post by hippy272

Not in this day and age, if everyone has a degree of the same quality then the value will go down.

Correct. They will become a prerequisite rather than a bonus, and that is quickly becoming the case in many sectors where it wasn't before.

Reply 95

Einheri

18

I wouldn't trust Uncle Dolan; he is a psychopath.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 96

NB_ide

14

Original post by Smack

I'm doing a MEng degree at Robert Gordon University in Aberdeen.

Those on the BEng course are finding it a bit more hit and miss. I know of two so far who have £30K offers despite only being able to get 2:2s. But there are quite a few who probably won't get any graduate level job offers.

I also know that the situation is the same across several other targeted Scottish universities, given that the oil is booming at the moment and companies are really ramping up their graduate intake. And notice I said "most" and not "all".

Do those getting job offers have placement/year-in-industry experience?

Original post by NB_ide

Do those getting job offers have placement/year-in-industry experience?

Yes, a placement is mandatory for the MEng here, and almost everyone will get an offer from their placement company. Those who got 2:2 BEng degrees and £30K job offers also had done placements.

Those who are probably going to struggle haven't done placements or years in industry to my knowledge.

Experience is key.

Reply 98

NB_ide

14

Original post by Smack

Yes, a placement is mandatory for the MEng here, and almost everyone will get an offer from their placement company. Those who got 2:2 BEng degrees and £30K job offers also had done placements.

Those who are probably going to struggle haven't done placements or years in industry to my knowledge.

Experience is key.

Yea, for sure.

Reply 99

Kenocide

11

Let him have his way, let everyone cease to study degrees then see if his children agree with him in 40 years time when they're having complex dental surgery performed on them by a secondary-school dropout, receiving legal advice from a bricklayer and receiving a prostate examination from a retired prison officer.

But in all seriousness everyone with half a brain cell knows that such a statement is ludicrous.

What he should have said was: "A degree is not necessary to be a successful entrepreneur. However, many students who complete degrees get a lot out of them on personal and academic levels, and a substantial proportion of people need to complete a degree in order to enter their respective professions. Degrees are far from useless but are not the be-all and end-all for everyone." Ironically, Perhaps Mr Dolan would have had the presence of mind to make those distinctions had he spent more time in education...

(edited 12 years ago)

British entrepreneur Simon Dolan says, "Degrees are worthless"

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