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Original post by und
That's right. Now integrate those. :smile:


That's what the :s-smilie: was for :tongue:

-Sec^2(2x)/2 + x - ??? No idea :h:

Substitution?

:reel:
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 1981
Original post by L'Evil Fish
That's what the :s-smilie: was for :tongue:

-Sec^2(2x)/2 + x - ??? No idea :h:

Substitution?

:reel:


That's not the integral of tan(x). Substitution would work for sec(x) but it's quite long. Try to find a similar trick as before, though it might be difficult if you're not too familiar with integrating/differentiating trig.

Anyway, I need to leave for school now so if you're still stuck when I get back I can give you more clues.
Original post by L'Evil Fish
That's what the :s-smilie: was for :tongue:

-Sec^2(2x)/2 + x - ??? No idea :h:

Substitution?

:reel:


Don't you know the integral of sec x? :tongue:
Original post by und
That's not the integral of tan(x). Substitution would work for sec(x) but it's quite long. Try to find a similar trick as before, though it might be difficult if you're not too familiar with integrating/differentiating trig.

Anyway, I need to leave for school now so if you're still stuck when I get back I can give you more clues.


What's the substitution? :h:

Original post by justinawe
Don't you know the integral of sec x? :tongue:


Root tan?:dontknow:

:reel:
Is this still about the trig integral I posted?! If so, you guys have really complicated things. :eek:
Original post by Lord of the Flies
Is this still about the trig integral I posted?! If so, you guys have really complicated things. :eek:


Yes... It's the only.way I can do it... Because I don't have the superior knowledge you guys possess... :rolleyes:

:reel:
Original post by L'Evil Fish
Yes... It's the only.way I can do it... Because I don't have the superior knowledge you guys possess... :rolleyes:


LOL there is no additional knowledge needed for that question. cos and sin span the same values between 0 and pi/2 (just in "reverse order), so the areas under sin/(cos+sin) and cos/(cos+sin) are exactly the same. Therefore the integral of one of them is half the integral of their sum, which is 1:

0π2sinxcosx+sinx  dx=120π2  dx=π4\displaystyle\int_0^{\frac{\pi}{2}}\dfrac{\sin x}{\cos x+\sin x}\;dx=\dfrac{1}{2}\int_0^{\frac{\pi}{2}}\;dx=\dfrac{\pi}{4}
Original post by Lord of the Flies
LOL there is no additional knowledge needed for that question. cos and sin span the same values between 0 and pi/2 (just in "reverse order), so the areas under sin/(cos+sin) and cos/(cos+sin) are exactly the same. Therefore the integral of one of them is half the integral of their sum, which is 1:

0π2sinxcosx+sinx  dx=120π2  dx=π4\displaystyle\int_0^{\frac{\pi}{2}}\dfrac{\sin x}{\cos x+\sin x}\;dx=\dfrac{1}{2}\int_0^{\frac{\pi}{2}}\;dx=\dfrac{\pi}{4}


Oh wow... I wouldn't think to do that... So :tongue: how do you integrate.

0π2tan(2x)+1sec(2x)dx\displaystyle\int_{0}^{ \pi}{2} \tan(2x) + 1 - \sec(2x) dx



:reel:
Nice to see that this thread is actually doing something useful now...:colone:

Probably because I haven't posted recently...:tongue:
Original post by TheMagicMan
Nice to see that this thread is actually doing something useful now...:colone:

Probably because I haven't posted recently...:tongue:


Useful = things, I can actually attempt :tongue:

:reel:
Original post by L'Evil Fish
Oh wow... I wouldn't think to do that... So :tongue: how do you integrate.

0π2tan(2x)+1sec(2x)dx\displaystyle\int_{0}^{ \pi}{2} \tan(2x) + 1 - \sec(2x) dx


Without prior knowledge of the integrals of tan and sec?

    tan2x  dx=sin2xcos2x  dx=12lncos2x\bullet\;\;\displaystyle\int \tan 2x\;dx=\int \dfrac{\sin 2x}{\cos 2x}\;dx=-\dfrac{1}{2}\ln \cos 2x


    sec2x  dx=sec2x(sec2x+tan2x)sec2x+tan2x  dx\bullet\;\;\displaystyle\int \sec 2x\;dx=\int \dfrac{\sec 2x(\sec 2x +\tan 2x)}{\sec 2x+\tan 2x}\;dx

        =sec22x+sec2xtan2xsec2x+tan2x  dx=12ln(sec2x+tan2x)\;\;\;\;\displaystyle=\int \dfrac{\sec^2 2x+\sec 2x\tan 2x}{\sec 2x+\tan 2x}\;dx=\dfrac{1}{2}\ln (\sec 2x+\tan 2x)
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by TheMagicMan
Nice to see that this thread is actually doing something useful now...:colone:

Probably because I haven't posted recently...:tongue:


Now you're back, please give us some useless stuff to munch on :colone:
Original post by Lord of the Flies
Without prior knowledge of the integrals of tan and sec?

    tan2x  dx=sin2xcos2x  dx=12lncos2x\bullet\;\;\displaystyle\int \tan 2x\;dx=\int \dfrac{\sin 2x}{\cos 2x}\;dx=-\dfrac{1}{2}\ln \cos 2x


    sec2x  dx=12sec2x(sec2x+tan2x)sec2x+tan2x  dx\bullet\;\;\displaystyle\int \sec 2x\;dx=\dfrac{1}{2}\int \dfrac{\sec 2x(\sec 2x +\tan 2x)}{\sec 2x+\tan 2x}\;dx

        =12sec22x+sec2xtan2xsec2x+tan2x  dx=12ln(sec2x+tan2x)\;\;\;\;\displaystyle=\dfrac{1}{2}\int \dfrac{\sec^2 2x+\sec 2x\tan 2x}{\sec 2x+\tan 2x}\;dx=\dfrac{1}{2}\ln (\sec 2x+\tan 2x)


:erm: how would I know that? Do I learn it?

Also you stole 1997 post :emo:

:reel:
Original post by L'Evil Fish
:erm: how would I know that? Do I learn it?


You don't need to learn it at all - it's not that obscure. When you have an integral it's useful to think: "what would I need to get it into this form" (i.e. into a standard derivative form: chain, product, log, depending on the integral). From there, it is quite straightforward to see what might work. :wink:
Original post by Lord of the Flies
Without prior knowledge of the integrals of tan and sec?

    tan2x  dx=sin2xcos2x  dx=12lncos2x\bullet\;\;\displaystyle\int \tan 2x\;dx=\int \dfrac{\sin 2x}{\cos 2x}\;dx=-\dfrac{1}{2}\ln \cos 2x


    sec2x  dx=sec2x(sec2x+tan2x)sec2x+tan2x  dx\bullet\;\;\displaystyle\int \sec 2x\;dx=\int \dfrac{\sec 2x(\sec 2x +\tan 2x)}{\sec 2x+\tan 2x}\;dx

        =sec22x+sec2xtan2xsec2x+tan2x  dx=12ln(sec2x+tan2x)\;\;\;\;\displaystyle=\int \dfrac{\sec^2 2x+\sec 2x\tan 2x}{\sec 2x+\tan 2x}\;dx=\dfrac{1}{2}\ln (\sec 2x+\tan 2x)


I assume in the second one, you pulled the half out in advance? I can't see why it's included in the first step (unless I'm being blind...)

Damn, you edited it out :colone:
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Oromis263
I assume in the second one, you pulled the half out in advance? I can't see why it's included in the first step (unless I'm being blind...)


Typo, I corrected whilst you were quoting me I think :tongue:
Original post by Lord of the Flies
Typo, I corrected whilst you were quoting me I think :tongue:


Oui. :tongue: I noticed. :colone:

Anyone remember that list of interesting integrals that was posted at some point in the 2012 STEP thread?

Also, anyone got a good list of functions to practise sketching? :biggrin:
Original post by Lord of the Flies
You don't need to learn it at all - it's not that obscure. When you have an integral it's useful to think: "what would I need to get it into this form" (i.e. into a standard derivative form: chain, product, log, depending on the integral). From there, it is quite straightforward to see what might work. :wink:


Straight forward? :tongue: you obviously haven't met me :tongue:

:reel:
Original post by Oromis263
Oui. :tongue: I noticed. :colone:

Anyone remember that list of interesting integrals that was posted at some point in the 2012 STEP thread?

Also, anyone got a good list of functions to practise sketching? :biggrin:


Not a function, but apparently this is an interview question:

Sketch (x22)2+(y22)2=2(x^2-2)^2+(y^2-2)^2=2

Don't a look at the hint before trying.

Spoiler

Original post by Lord of the Flies
Now you're back, please give us some useless stuff to munch on :colone:


https://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/study/IA/Numbers+Sets/2012-2013/numset32012.pdf

Q14: I have a very convoluted construction...but I would really like something less messy :tongue:

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