Derren Brown Apocalypse - Real or Fake? + discussion
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The guy must have been an actor in my opinion.
To undergo something like this, a participant is legally required to have given full and informed consent, which is obviously impossible if the guy was genuinely unaware of what was going on. In addition, the experience of thinking that the world as he knew it had ended and that all his family were dead would be extremely traumatic and whilst Derren kept repeating that psychologists were monitoring him, they could not see what was going on in his head and a severe psychological trauma such as this could have easily triggered a complete mental breakdown. Derren could have quite easily found himself being sued for very substantial damages.
Add to this the fact that the guy was listed on an actors register and considering the various practical issues that there were seemingly no safeguards to protect against (what if he had picked up a weapon and smashed one of the 'infected' on the head?) and I simply cannot see how this could have possibly been genuine.
To undergo something like this, a participant is legally required to have given full and informed consent, which is obviously impossible if the guy was genuinely unaware of what was going on. In addition, the experience of thinking that the world as he knew it had ended and that all his family were dead would be extremely traumatic and whilst Derren kept repeating that psychologists were monitoring him, they could not see what was going on in his head and a severe psychological trauma such as this could have easily triggered a complete mental breakdown. Derren could have quite easily found himself being sued for very substantial damages.
Add to this the fact that the guy was listed on an actors register and considering the various practical issues that there were seemingly no safeguards to protect against (what if he had picked up a weapon and smashed one of the 'infected' on the head?) and I simply cannot see how this could have possibly been genuine.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Futility
The guy must have been an actor in my opinion.
To undergo something like this, a participant is legally required to have given full and informed consent, which is obviously impossible if the guy was genuinely unaware of what was going on.
To undergo something like this, a participant is legally required to have given full and informed consent, which is obviously impossible if the guy was genuinely unaware of what was going on.
On the other side of the fence, Derren Brown has said that Channel 4's lawyers were heavily involved in the whole thing, and to have faked it would have been legally (as well as practically) problematic.
Original post by Futility
The guy must have been an actor in my opinion.
To undergo something like this, a participant is legally required to have given full and informed consent, which is obviously impossible if the guy was genuinely unaware of what was going on. In addition, the experience of thinking that the world as he knew it had ended and that all his family were dead would be extremely traumatic and whilst Derren kept repeating that psychologists were monitoring him, they could not see what was going on in his head and a severe psychological trauma such as this could have easily triggered a complete mental breakdown. Derren could have quite easily found himself being sued for very substantial damages.
To undergo something like this, a participant is legally required to have given full and informed consent, which is obviously impossible if the guy was genuinely unaware of what was going on. In addition, the experience of thinking that the world as he knew it had ended and that all his family were dead would be extremely traumatic and whilst Derren kept repeating that psychologists were monitoring him, they could not see what was going on in his head and a severe psychological trauma such as this could have easily triggered a complete mental breakdown. Derren could have quite easily found himself being sued for very substantial damages.
Has there been any psychiatric harm though? Derren ended it with that call, so he merely thought he was sleeping. That was done to ensure that no psychiatric problems would occur from transition into the real world. So there was no psychiatric harm.
Physical harm? None
Economic loss? None - he's gained from this.
Unjust enrichment? Perhaps, but he would have known what Derren was like. By going to the selection process, he would have realized that anything can happen - and I presume that Derrens solicitors would have made quite a nifty disclaimer for him to sign (and I bet in the small print included all the details of what would have happened
)So overall, I'd say that regardless of the entire consent, that guy would never have been able to sue successfully - and even if they did, I'm sure Derren would have took out some insurance to protect himself.
I was at the recording of his live show Svengali and I can vouch that what you see with Derren Is what you get.
As for how he was able to be put to sleep, he was put to sleep in the audition and while he was asleep was made more susceptible to commands to go to sleep in the future. This effect can last several months.
And when he answered the mobile as well as Derrens voice he would have heard a subliminal sound. Both of these couldn't be shown on camera due to legal restrictions on what hypnotic procedures can be shown. As there are idiots out there who will try what they see at home.
Everything else can be put down to clever FX work (I have been a FX artist since I was six so I do know what I am talking about) controlled cameras and conditions and clever actors and scripting used to put Steven on the right path. Derren also has a video on his YouTube channel answering the questions about Steven being an actor or stooge. The channel is DerrenBrownBlog. As for him being able to pick up a weapon to 'attack' the infected all sharp objects and objects that could be used as a weapon were REMOVED from the locations AND he was NEVER in close contact with the infected actors. And when he was they were behind a fence. Also he was thoroughly screened during the audition to make sure he was robust enough for what was coming. I do speak as someone who has worked on 12 live horror events when I say the mind is stronger than people give it credit for. He would be terrified yes, but never in any emotional or physical danger.
As for how he was able to be put to sleep, he was put to sleep in the audition and while he was asleep was made more susceptible to commands to go to sleep in the future. This effect can last several months.
And when he answered the mobile as well as Derrens voice he would have heard a subliminal sound. Both of these couldn't be shown on camera due to legal restrictions on what hypnotic procedures can be shown. As there are idiots out there who will try what they see at home.
Everything else can be put down to clever FX work (I have been a FX artist since I was six so I do know what I am talking about) controlled cameras and conditions and clever actors and scripting used to put Steven on the right path. Derren also has a video on his YouTube channel answering the questions about Steven being an actor or stooge. The channel is DerrenBrownBlog. As for him being able to pick up a weapon to 'attack' the infected all sharp objects and objects that could be used as a weapon were REMOVED from the locations AND he was NEVER in close contact with the infected actors. And when he was they were behind a fence. Also he was thoroughly screened during the audition to make sure he was robust enough for what was coming. I do speak as someone who has worked on 12 live horror events when I say the mind is stronger than people give it credit for. He would be terrified yes, but never in any emotional or physical danger.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by zaliack
Has there been any psychiatric harm though? Derren ended it with that call, so he merely thought he was sleeping. That was done to ensure that no psychiatric problems would occur from transition into the real world. So there was no psychiatric harm.
I'm guessing you didn't watch the programme in its entirety? At the end Derren goes back to his house and reveals that his 'dream' was actually 'real' but set up to make him realise the value of everything he has. Whether there has been any psychological harm done to him (assuming he isn't an actor) who knows? The long term effects on his mental well-being will not become apparent for some time.
Original post by zaliack
Unjust enrichment? Perhaps, but he would have known what Derren was like. By going to the selection process, he would have realized that anything can happen - and I presume that Derrens solicitors would have made quite a nifty disclaimer for him to sign (and I bet in the small print included all the details of what would have happened )
So overall, I'd say that regardless of the entire consent, that guy would never have been able to sue successfully - and even if they did, I'm sure Derren would have took out some insurance to protect himself.
)So overall, I'd say that regardless of the entire consent, that guy would never have been able to sue successfully - and even if they did, I'm sure Derren would have took out some insurance to protect himself.
The key word is informed consent. There is no way that he could have been fully informed about the process he was to undergo without giving the game away. And without being fully informed you cannot sign a legally binding disclaimer. There's little doubt that if he were to suffer a complete mental breakdown as a direct result of Derren's deception and the ordeal he was put through, Mr Brown could be held accountable.
Original post by PythianLegume
It's not fake; Derren Brown selects people who are susceptible to hypnosis. Many people aren't susceptible and so he can't use them for his experiments.
Studying Clinical Hypnosis myself, this statement is slightly incorrect. Almost EVERYONE can be put into a Hypnotic `trance`; the main differences between the people is the deepness of the trance that they allow themselves to go into; a skilled Hypnotist can force a trance to be deepened; however some people just do not go deep enough for their overall perception to be changed to the extent that Derren Brown's subject did.
There are 6 `general` levels of Hypnotic trance, there are more sub-categories however, placing them into 6 will be the simplest way for everyone on TSR to understand.
•
Stage 1: No trance (Unwilling or unsusceptible) - Most Hypnotist's are in this category; as they know when someone is trying to force or induce a trance like state, however some members of the public also land here too, about 5%, you can force someone out of this stage by using Covert Hypnosis or by building a rapport and trust and consent!
•
Stage 2: Hypnoidal - This stage is where people start to relax and signs of Hypnosis are visible to a professional Hypnotist. This stage is perfect for Accelerated Learning abilities.
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Stage 3: Light - This stage is where the patient further relaxes and physiological signs of trance become slightly more apparent. This stage is often used for Suggestion Therapy.
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Stage 4: Medium to Deep - This is where further physiological signs occur and is normally used for more Advanced Clinical Hypnosis - essentially this is the stage where you can start to change someone's perception to make them feel and think differently - Whilst correcting more advanced psychological issues.
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Stage 5 - Deep and Somnambulisic - This stage is where Stage Hypnosis or Waking Hypnosis occurs, this is the level Derren Brown's subject would have being at throughout the "Derren Brown Apocalypse show" ... this is the stage where you can totally change someone's perception of right and wrong; and even make them do things that they wouldn't normally do, this stage can be misused more so than the other stages... however only about 20% of people can enter this stage naturally, without pre-hypnosis.
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Stage 6 - Deeper states of Somnambulisic - For example Coma, Catatonic and Ultra Depth Extreme flaccidity.
So to answer your question, yes it properly is real, however ... it is not as simple as he makes out.
(edited 11 years ago)
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