Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing?

The views of the Scottish people aren't represented in London, don't let the the facts I mentioned change that for you. Scotland has something like 60 mps - I forget the actual number. So naming Scottish Mps as you so intelligently done doesn't show in anyway that the views of the Scottish people are represented. As i said above 91% of Scottish Mps voted aginst the bedroom tax yet it still gets past. The only way to ensure that the Scottish people actually get a say in how our country is run is to vote for independence.

Hmmm, well England has a more diverse mix of cultures, doesn't have its own parliament, and is far more economically powerful than the rest of the UK combined (specifically down to it being much more heavily populated).
As I semi-seriously said earlier, if any member of the UK should be pushing for a separation it should be England.

Only problem then is that certain members of the chip-on-shoulder community north of the border would play it as the greedy English deserting Scots. That is the only cultural difference between the two. Take watching 6 Nations rugby in a pub-if you're watching England v Italy in a Scottish pub, the locals are roaring their heads off for the Italians. If you're watching Scotland v Italy in an English pub, nobody really cares.

Oh dear, ironic that you should bring up national level, the SNP don't get voted in. What does it matter? The views of the Scottish people aren't represented at "national" level anyways. Scotland does not get any say in electing government after government which impoverish thousands of Scots. This is shown by the fact the Scotland has not influenced an election since the 1970's. Basically, most of Scotland voted for Labour but has gotten whatever the rest of the UK voted for. Furthermore, 91% of Scottish MPs voted against the bedroom tax which will impoverish thousands of Scottish people, another classical example of Scotland isn't listened to in Westminster. So how do we benefit immensely from being part of the UK? Or not having control of our own country, control or own economy, our own policy. Why on earth would anybody not want to give our selves the chance to decide for ourselves what's best for us and build or own economy?

The only thing in favour of the UK is a blue white and red "rag" on a pole.

The thing is, that reasoning applies to loads of places all over the world. For example, in the USA each state has their own laws, their own education system, their own governments, their own taxation, their own culture to some extent.

The fact that we happen to call the parts of the UK countries and not states, provinces, regions, etc. is irrelevant.

I have a dilemma for you as well if Andy Murray wins a match he is British if he loses he is Scottish ? Aha!

and I think your wrong about the pub thing ahaha!

I appreciate your reply but let's focus on scotland not America or any other country , balance my argument against yours. The reality is you know we could manage on our own.

You're close. 59 in total. 12 of which actually represent the current coalition government. When/if labour win the next general election we'll have 41 of those 59 in Government.

I wasn't just realing off names there. There were some major political hitters.

2 x Prime Ministers
2 x Chancellors of the exchequer.
1 x Foreign Secretary
2 Secretary for Defence
1 x Minister of Transport
1 x Foreign secretary
1 x Head of NATO

to name just a few. But lets not get facts get in the way.

Does Holyrood represent the views of Aberdeenshire. After all, they're a minority in Holyrood.

91% of Scottish MPs voted against the bedroom tax. 9% didn't. Do that 9% get ignored?

I hate to point to say it to you but we live in a democracy. Sometimes we don't get what we want.

I'm not massivly impressed with our cuts to college spending (Devolved). But guess what. It got through.

Andy Murray is possibly the dullest personality in sport-if he wins good for him, if he loses bad for him. As for the pub thing-I experienced it last weekend. I'm watching the decider against Wales in Edinburgh this weekend; I wonder who all the locals will be supporting?

Really people weren't saying that when he won gold for the Olympics were they ? As for the pub thing you'll just have to wait and see but you'll be surprised aha!

I don't see the Northern Irish or even the caravan burning Welsh complaining half as much. Sure you have Plaid Cymru in the latter, but the Welsh Assembly is still controlled by Labour, and this is reflected in the MPs Wales sends to Westminster too. NI gets even less say in Parliament than Scotland, but that doesn't stop it sending predominantly local party members along. Even your Anglophobic brethren feel no need to break away from UK tyranny.

I appreciate your reply but let's focus on scotland not America or any other country , balance my argument against yours. The reality is you know we could manage on our own.

Once again iam left thinking how rude can you be ? Stop trying to undermine people - you also won't win a debate with that language bit of maturity please? Thank you

Sorry but I don't think we are on the same page , you seem to lack passion about your point also can you answer WHY FLAGS EXIST THEN?

to define the country possible

look at it this why if we all had your Attitude we wouldn't get anywhere.

I have a dilemma for you as well if Andy Murray wins a match he is British if he loses he is Scottish ? Aha!

No I can't sorry.. I am being honest I don't know , I'll repeat it again for effect I. Don't Know. See below

What I do know is that scotland has a different educational system

So do Private schools.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Baccalaureate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Pre-U

Different Laws

Wow. I'll let Omaha knos so they can scede from the US.
Are you taking By Laws into account that vary from council to council?

Going to repeat this again but different cultures

Difference in Scottish Culture between English Culture? Scotland has a whole host of cultures as does England, as does Wales, as does Northern Ireland. All encompassed under British Culture. What are we doing about the 12% and growing number of the population that aren't Scottish? What about the Scots who are able to identify with both British and Scottish culture? Will we be ignoring the culture that has been imported by centuries of interaction?

The majority of the Scottish population (70%) can quite happily look outwards. For those that can't, I'd recommend studying, working or travelliung. You'll be suprised how much we have in common with the rest of the UK.


Different history

Would that be the the common history we've had for over three hundred years? Or would you prefer to live in the time before that.

Its own parliament which it only got in 1998

Then we're lucky. We have another layer of government to pay for. A layer of government that has a degree of tax raising payers to act as an economic lever that we seem to be very reluctant to use.

I think we should have the right to make our own decisions as OUR OWM COUNTRY! Interestingly you've stated above that you don't know. The reason you think I'm being hard on you is that I strongly suspect that you claim to be something you're not. i.e. interested in debate.

I'm fully aware that the SNP have learnt the art of modern day marketing techniques and buzz marketing using social media. The fact that party activists are trawling the internet pretending to be something their not worries me. I am merely here to act as a counter argument in order to allow for a balanced debate.
this is all I have to say about this. That's it. Done.

Looks like the oil has a long future for us btw
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2013/03/oil-analysis11032013

I won't win a debate by entertaining frankly unacceptable and barmy opinions. There is a limit after which the only rational tactic is befuddlement and ridicule. Consider it a modified version of the left-wingers 'No Platform' ideas which ends up being more fun for me.

Flags exist originally to symbolise armies on a battlefield. Today, outside of the shipping, they serve virtually zero practical purpose.

"complaining" Really, in debating positives and negatives of independence and you feel the need to inform me about Welsh and Northern Irish "not complaining" and about them having less say than us. That's nice.

Your point about Aberdeenshire and Holyrood only applies if you don't view Scotland as a country. It is.

Name dropping successful Scottish MPs doesn't show how the views of the Scottish people are represented.

It's worth bringing up other countries when you're using an argument that just as easily applies to them as it does to Scotland and the UK. If your argument is that Scotland should be independent because it already has it's own government, laws, etc. then the logical consequence of that is that many other countries should also break up because they also have parts with their own governments, laws, etc.

I'm sure Scotland could manage it on its own. The question is whether or not that would make people's lives better or worse. I don't think anyone believes Scotland would turn into Somalia if it was independent.

Oh my, the 9% get ignored? Well as you say...it's a democracy! I'm afraid i don't share your acceptance with sometimes we don't get what we want. Why should we stay in the union and "not get what we want" we could go independent and decide for ourselves.

Oh my, the 9% get ignored? Well as you say...it's a democracy! I'm afraid i don't share your acceptance with sometimes we don't get what we want. Why should we stay in the union and "not get what we want" we could go independent and decide for ourselves. There would Ineveability be some Scottish people some people who would disagree, that's democracy however, the views of the entire country should be not disregarded, we should have the right to decide for ourselves, not what those in London decide.

Your point about Aberdeenshire and Holyrood only applies if you don't view Scotland as a country. It is.
Name dropping successful Scottish MPs doesn't show how the views of the Scottish people are represented.