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UK shared exam system faces break up. Wales/NI students - how much do you know?

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Original post by meenu89
He will have plenty of Civil servants in that department who are from an education background. For the record I like him.


Even if he receives good advice, he shouldn't be the one making the final decisions on an area that he has no expertise in. I struggle to see what value he offers in this role.
If you want to have a look at how ministers ignore good scientific/knowledgeable advice from people who have a background in the respective area, look at our ridiculous drug policy.

You have Boris Johnson as your avatar, so honestly I don't really respect your judgement.
Reply 41
Original post by anonstudent1
Even if he receives good advice, he shouldn't be the one making the final decisions on an area that he has no expertise in. I struggle to see what value he offers in this role.
If you want to have a look at how ministers ignore good scientific/knowledgeable advice from people who have a background in the respective area, look at our ridiculous drug policy.

You have Boris Johnson as your avatar, so honestly I don't really respect your judgement.


Like Mrs. Thatcher said 'Advisers' advise, Ministers decide'.
I don't want you to respect my judgement, nor I have I sought it. I'm just telling you that someone doesn't need to be from an educational background to be Education Secretary. These positions are solely for the Prime Minister to decide upon.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by meenu89
Like Mrs. Thatcher said 'Advisers' advise, Ministers decide'.
I don't want you to respect my judgement, nor I have I sought it. I'm just telling you that someone doesn't need to be from an educational background to be Education Secretary. These positions are for solely the Prime Minister to decide upon.


Yes ministers decide, but I would like the minister in question to have some clue about the area hes involved in.
You said you liked Gove, I was just pointing out I think you have poor taste in what you think a good politician is. Didn't really expect you to care.
Original post by Ollie113
They are, Gove is trying to fix something that isn't even broken, the British Education system is one of the most rigorous and respected systems in the world, and certainly better than the US one. The problem is that the media portray A Levels and GCSE's as easy qualifications that the "arrogant youth can pass with minimal effort". This view is one that is firmly held by the older generations, who cannot understand why results are going up and why so many are going to university, especially when they did not have that chance. So they feel bitter about it. It can't be because the arrogant kids of today are more intelligent then the baby boomers and the result of a well functioning educational system, oh no, it must be because the exams are getting easier.
That is why when Gove appears to be coming down hard on a system that teachers and universities say doesn't need fixing, he is convincing the older generations that he's "toughening up the kids of
today and replacing exams that lazy teenagers do well in with rigorous old fashioned style tests, just like back in the days of condensed milk and when people actually use to buy spam and smash". It is literally being done so that the Tories can secure the vote of the Baby Boomer's generation, and not
because the education system is failing.


That's terrible.
Reply 44
Original post by Meat is Murder
Is that why the percentage of people getting A*s is the highest for Maths? This suggests it is an easier subject, actually.


The reason why such a large percentage of maths candidates get As in A levels is because the students who do it are in the main only those who are very strong in maths to start off with. It is extremely uncommon for students with less than an A in GCSE to attempt A level maths, and if they do so then they tend to flunk. In fact, around 80% of those taking maths A level got an A star at maths GCSE. I can think of no other subject bar physics which has as many incredibly competent students starting out on the A level course as maths, hence, that is why the top grades are achieved by so many. Furthermore most A level maths people are passionately mathy people and really enjoy their subject which is very mind immersive and all about understanding.
Lets be clear though; the A level qualification is still rigorous and those who get As or A*s deserve it, but something is wrong with GCSEs. The percentage of those coming out of my school now with all As or A*s is an exorbitant number compared to when I was at school.
Original post by Meat is Murder
Lets be clear though; the A level qualification is still rigorous and those who get As or A*s deserve it, but something is wrong with GCSEs. The percentage of those coming out of my school now with all As or A*s is an exorbitant number compared to when I was at school.


Its probably the module system. When I was doing exams, you had one chance to do all your examinations in on sitting.
Now they get as many chances as they want to do smaller exams over 4 sittings
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Meat is Murder
Wow some ignorant posters above. The AS level examination is far to easy as it is. What he is doing is right. Examine boards in England will have to break away from those of NI and Wales as the English qualifications will be more rigorous.

Level up = good thing.

Put it this way: I had a university exam this morning that was on a whole years content, and about 1000 years of history. A levels don't set students up for that sort of workload.


I found the first year of uni easier than A2... :dontknow:
Original post by Barden
I found the first year of uni easier than A2... :dontknow:


...says the person doing Zoology at Bangor. Says everything about the academic rigour of lesser unis.
Original post by Meat is Murder
...says the person doing Zoology at Bangor. Says everything about the academic rigour of lesser unis.



Some would consider Bangor to be a 'lesser uni', and rightly so in terms of facilities and equipment, but we are no ex-poly and rank in the middle of the overall league table. I won't deny that many uni's are intrinsically better, however there's no proof that the first year exams at Bangor for my course are any easier than those set by the likes of Cambridge or Imperial.


I don't see what my subject has to do with your point. I suggest you actually look up what zoology is before you disparage it, as you are embarrassing yourself...
Reply 50
Haven't formed much of an opinion on the actual reforms proposed. But I do agree with him that fracturing the UK education system(s) is a natural occurrence of devolution. If Wales and Northern Ireland don't want to split the education system, they should un-devolve (what's the word for that? :confused:) those powers. As it is, the UK education minister is primarily responsible for the English education system. That's what you get with devolution.
Original post by Psyk
Haven't formed much of an opinion on the actual reforms proposed. But I do agree with him that fracturing the UK education system(s) is a natural occurrence of devolution. If Wales and Northern Ireland don't want to split the education system, they should un-devolve (what's the word for that? :confused:) those powers. As it is, the UK education minister is primarily responsible for the English education system. That's what you get with devolution.


revoke? :wink:
Reply 52
Original post by Barden
revoke? :wink:


Yeah that works. Maybe "repatriate" works too?
Original post by Ollie113
No more people get A*s in maths because it's the sort of A level that is usually taken only by people who are really good at the subject or who need it to study STEM related subject at uni. This introduces a statistical bias and hence a positive slant in the results, but you won't understand that because you didn't do maths so I'll put it simply and in a tone which you are more accustomed to:

It is lyk, only taekn bi clevr peepl and peeps who ar realy motivated to do weel in da subject, so not many fail it as dey studi harder den de rest


Congratulations for showing the level of your own ignorance.
I myself live in Wales. If this whole reform meant that I obtain a second class qualification compared to someone in England, how is that fair? I didn't choose to sit these exams, I mean how are they going to regulate and ensure equal standards amongst the different exams?

I personally think he's trying to reinvent the wheel, or trying to make a policy by which he'll he remembered by, well, he'll certainly be remembered, for being a douche.

A Levels do their jobs, if he wants to make them more rigorous perhaps he should look into the actual content as opposed to the structure.

Hopefully, people won't be too badly affected.
Gove is genuinely the best man in the Government.
Original post by L'Evil Fish
I myself live in Wales. If this whole reform meant that I obtain a second class qualification compared to someone in England, how is that fair? I didn't choose to sit these exams, I mean how are they going to regulate and ensure equal standards amongst the different exams?

I personally think he's trying to reinvent the wheel, or trying to make a policy by which he'll he remembered by, well, he'll certainly be remembered, for being a douche.

A Levels do their jobs, if he wants to make them more rigorous perhaps he should look into the actual content as opposed to the structure.

Hopefully, people won't be too badly affected.


The thing is that that's not Michael Gove's fault. It's the Education Minister for Wales' fault. Gove would love to have a shared system, in which the GCSE and the GCE were of the same quality and integrity throughout the UK. However, devolution means that local ministers who disagree with Gove's reforms can simply ignore them.

Gove won't stand for a GCSE which is easier for some than it is for others.
Original post by Psyk
Haven't formed much of an opinion on the actual reforms proposed. But I do agree with him that fracturing the UK education system(s) is a natural occurrence of devolution. If Wales and Northern Ireland don't want to split the education system, they should un-devolve (what's the word for that? :confused:) those powers. As it is, the UK education minister is primarily responsible for the English education system. That's what you get with devolution.


Exactly. As with a lot of things, the ultimate blame goes to Tony Blair and his misguided devolution.
Original post by the1akshay
The thing is that that's not Michael Gove's fault. It's the Education Minister for Wales' fault. Gove would love to have a shared system, in which the GCSE and the GCE were of the same quality and integrity throughout the UK. However, devolution means that local ministers who disagree with Gove's reforms can simply ignore them.

Gove won't stand for a GCSE which is easier for some than it is for others.


What are Gove's changes going to do though, in all honesty? They're not going to improve anything, are they?

We shall see what the future holds.
Original post by L'Evil Fish
What are Gove's changes going to do though, in all honesty? They're not going to improve anything, are they?

We shall see what the future holds.


I think they are.

Making exams linear reduce the amount of "teaching the test" and require a deeper knowledge of subject matter.

Adding SPaG marks to exams promotes their good use, which is incredibly important in life. Without good SPaG, nobody will take you seriously.

Single exam boards would have (it's not going ahead now) stopped competitve dumbing down, which, yes, is a thing. There was a big scandal a while ago about the Edexcel Chief Examiner promoting Edexcel by saying that their exams were the easiest (on BBC News and everything).

Too many academically able students are taking courses which they are, for want of a better phrase, too good for.

The proportion of A*s is too high. The GCSE, which aims to help employers/colleges discriminate between different people's ability, can't do this at the top end of the spectrum, due to grade inflation.

The UMS system (part of modularisation) means that the proportion of Cs, Bs and As are set by the exam board. They're trivial. They're not innately based on the achievement of the candidate, they're based on the achievement of the candidate with regards to everybody else's achievement.

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