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UK Hindus are appealling for recognition

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My point was the statistics used are far from 100% accurate, I wasn't even claiming the Israeli ones were true, I was just trying to point out that statistics can be used to make a bogeyman out of any group. My point was, the only things you can be certain of, from the UK survey, are what I said, anything else is inferred. I wasn't saying the data make Israelis evil, I was showing you how the data about british muslims could have been twisted.

Reply 61

Longshoredrift80

apd35

My point was, the only things you can be certain of, from the UK survey, are what I said, anything else is inferred.

That's how statistics work. And the groups that carry them out spend much time trying to ensure those inferences will be as accurate as possible, usually to within a couple of percentage points.

Reply 62

apd35

JonathanH

That's how statistics work. And the groups that carry them out spend much time trying to ensure those inferences will be as accurate as possible, usually to within a couple of percentage points.

Or that they only report the statistics relevant to their story? God forbid, a news agency has an agenda.

Reply 63

Longshoredrift80

Would you like to enlighten me what sort of hidden statistics could possibly mitigate '20% of muslims have no problem with a family member joining Al Qaeda' - even if they don't publish all the results (and most of the time they actually do), how does that mitigate that one?

Reply 64

apd35

JonathanH

Possibly could have been a leading question or they got a bad sample, or the people asked were not answering truthfully (thinking they were being clever), or possibly down to not fully understanding the implications.

If you survey young people regarding drugs and sexual matters, most will exaggerate, so, could it not be the case that some young people interviewed exaggerated in this case?

Reply 65

Longshoredrift80

apd35

If you survey young people regarding drugs and sexual matters, most will exaggerate, so, could it not be the case that some young people interviewed exaggerated in this case?

And you don't think there's a difference between the two matters? Between changing the amount of people you've slept with, and changing your view on international terrorism?

Reply 66

Akhoza

rrai

I'm Hindu myself and I agree with the notion that there definitely has to be more awareness. Compared to Sikh's and Muslims alot of people aren't very aware of Hinduism (where I live anyway).

I had some Jehovah's witness's come to my door and they said, "I'm assuming your Muslim?", I responded "no", then immediately afterwards they said "Oh, so your Sikh", again I said "no". Then there was an awkward silence, I wanted them to try and work it out for themselves ....... eventually they said in a puzzled manner "Buddist?". I finally told them and they said "ohhhhhhhhhhh yeah ........".

Additionally, that stuff about becoming "Militant" is highly unlikely. Indian Hindu's have had so many problems with religious tension between Sikhs and Muslims yet they have scarcely (if ever) resorted to any extremist and terrorist tactics. I think the very nature of Hindism itself serves as a barrier to this.

Absolute crap Hindus have turned to extremists in situations like the Gujurat riots and the anti-Sikh riots of 1984.

Reply 67

El Scotto

Akhoza

I just think that Hindus, Muslims and Sikh are vastly different communities and they are all unfairly categorised under the same banner as Asian

the term asian is in a different catagory to that of hindu, muslim and sikh though,

Hindu muslim and sikh come under the religion banner? not the race? surely?

Reply 68

Rashid

John

Considering almost every person in Israel personally knows someone who has been killed or wounded in a terror attack perpetrated by an Arab, that is much lower than you might expect. Still unfair, but as long as they do not act on it, understandable.

So if you can understand the situation of the Israelis, then you can surely understand the situation of the 20% of Muslims, who have had 30,000 brothers and sisters KILLED in Iraq by the Euroamerican forces. You can understand the situation of those who support al-Quaida, which played a fairly large role (allegedly) in the organisation and operation of the Chechen mujahideen against the godless Russians, who killed 35,000 Muslim civillians (in the first chechen war). You can understand why some Muslims feel hatred and suspicion towards non-Muslim britons, who stare at them when they walk down the street, swear, spit, and even physically attack, just for being Muslim.

Either you do. Or you're just a plain hypocrite.

-Rashid

Reply 69

Longshoredrift80

Rashid

So if you can understand the situation of the Israelis, then you can surely understand the situation of the 20% of Muslims, who have had 30,000 brothers and sisters KILLED in Iraq by the Euroamerican forces.
Sorry? Actually, the vast vast majority of those deaths have been caused by OTHER MUSLIMS. According to IraqBodyCount - a leftist, anti-war group, US forces have killed roughly 51 Iraqi civilians so far in 2006. Muslim terrorists have killed approximately 5,100 so far in 2006. The muslims in Iraq aren't dying at the hands of 'Euroamerican forces', they're dying at the hands of other muslims. At the rate of about 100:1.

Rashid

Chechen mujahideen against the godless Russians
And now we're back to the 'infidel' stuff. We know, it's the 'godless Russians', the 'satanic Americans', the 'infidel Jews', the 'awful Hindus'. Once again, fighting everyone and saying it's everyone else's fault.

Rashid

understand why some Muslims feel hatred and suspicion towards non-Muslim britons, who stare at them when they walk down the street, swear, spit, and even physically attack, just for being Muslim.
You're talking about a TINY minority. A few hundred incidents a year ina country with over 1.5million muslims. Sorry, the fact that they 'stare' and a tiny proportion 'swear' doesn't justify hatred.

Reply 70

Rashid

John

Sorry? Actually, the vast vast majority of those deaths have been caused by OTHER MUSLIMS. According to IraqBodyCount - a leftist, anti-war group, US forces have killed roughly 51 Iraqi civilians so far in 2006. Muslim terrorists have killed approximately 5,100 so far in 2006. The muslims in Iraq aren't dying at the hands of 'Euroamerican forces', they're dying at the hands of other muslims. At the rate of about 100:1.

Tell that to them.

John

And now we're back to the 'infidel' stuff. We know, it's the 'godless Russians', the 'satanic Americans', the 'infidel Jews', the 'awful Hindus'. Once again, fighting everyone and saying it's everyone else's fault.

Uh huh. Still doesn't counter the fact that the Russians DID kill 35,000 Muslim civillians in Chechnya, and al-Quaeda (allegedly) played a part in their resounding defeat in the first Chechen war.

John

You're talking about a TINY minority. A few hundred incidents a year ina country with over 1.5million muslims. Sorry, the fact that they 'stare' and a tiny proportion 'swear' doesn't justify hatred.

Hypocrite.

-Rashid

Reply 71

Longshoredrift80

Don't even think those pitiful answers need a response.

Reply 72

Rashid

JonathanH

Don't even think those pitiful answers need a response.

-Rashid

Reply 73

Longshoredrift80

What? They really don't. Your first isn't even an answer, neither is your third. Your second is utterly irrelevant because instead of responding to my point that you quote, you just say something else. So no response is needed.

Reply 74

Rashid

John

Your first isn't even an answer

You're trying to say that the hatred of the US/UK is unjustified/wrong (with regards to Iraq) because most of the people that are dying are as a result of other Muslims, not the Euroamerican forces. Well, that doesn't matter to those 16% or whatever it was, as far as they're concerned, it IS the US/UK's fault. My point wasn't that it was their fault (not that im saying it wasn't either), my point was that is what those 16% FEEL. Youre "rebuttal" was irrelevant. (thats why I said tell that to them; the 16%)

John

Your second is utterly irrelevant because instead of responding to my point that you quote, you just say something else

No, thats what you did. What I am trying to say is, in a lot of people's eyes, al-Quaida IS, or at least WAS, heroic. They (allegedly) played a major role in the resounding defeat of the Russians (who killed 35,000 civillians) in the First Chechen War, so became heros. So if you can understand why Israelis feel like they do about Arabs, why can't you understand people's admiration for the role al-Quaida (supposedly) played in Chechnya?

John

neither is your third.

That was the best bit :biggrin:

John

You're talking about a TINY minority. A few hundred incidents a year ina country with over 1.5million muslims. Sorry, the fact that they 'stare' and a tiny proportion 'swear' doesn't justify hatred.

Thats what you said. Its a MINORITY. The EXACT same could be said for the Israelis. Even if it FEELS like most Arabs are suicide bombers or whatever, its only a minority that ARE. And that hatred isn't justified (just like the hatred for ALL Britons isn't justified-i never said it was)

Hence your hypocrisy. You can understand and sympathise with the position of the Israelis, but not the Muslims in Britain who are in a situation where you can draw some strong paralells.

-Rashid

P.S. RE: the staring, sorry, but when someone STARES at you, and gives you dirty looks, it means they HATE you. When almost EVERYONE does that as you walk down the street, you begin to feel hatred for EVERYONE. Try being a Muslim in the immediate aftermath of 7/7 and see what its like. Fortunately, where I live at least, things are much more calmer now, one year on.

Reply 75

Longshoredrift80

Rashid

You're trying to say that the hatred of the US/UK is unjustified/wrong (with regards to Iraq) because most of the people that are dying are as a result of other Muslims, not the Euroamerican forces.

Well, I do think the hatred is wrong, but that was not my point. My point was simply to counter your false accusation that muslims were dying at the hands of 'Euroamerican forces' by demonstrating that 99% are dying at the hands of other muslims.

Rashid

my point was that is what those 16% FEEL.

Firstly what the hell is this "16%"? Secondly, as I have often said here, discussing 'feeling' is pointless. Feelings are often irrational and baseless, thus talking about them contributes nothing to what should be a reasoned debate.

Rashid

No, thats what you did. What I am trying to say is, in a lot of people's eyes, al-Quaida IS, or at least WAS, heroic.

See, back to what people "feel" etc.

Rashid

why can't you understand people's admiration for the role al-Quaida (supposedly) played in Chechnya?

Where did I say anything about any of this?

Rashid

Even if it FEELS like most Arabs are suicide bombers or whatever, its only a minority that ARE.

Maybe only a minority are bombers, but the majority of palestinians support the bombers. And it is quite clear nothing like a majority would support offensiveness towards muslims on the streets of this country.

Rashid

Hence your hypocrisy. You can understand and sympathise with the position of the Israelis, but not the Muslims in Britain who are in a situation where you can draw some strong paralells.

Strong parallels between:
1) People who SUICIDE BOMB you with the supoort of a MAJORITY of the population; and,
2) People who stare (or maybe spit) at you to the disgust of much of the population.

I don't see them. Calling me a hypocrite on that basis is a mighty stretch.

Rashid

P.S. RE: the staring, sorry, but when someone STARES at you, and gives you dirty looks, it means they HATE you.

Er... if you insist... I don't agree.

Rashid

When almost EVERYONE does that as you walk down the street, you begin to feel hatred for EVERYONE.

Please, not everyone stares at you or hates you when you walk down the street :rolleyes:

It's this type of advanced persecution complex that annoys a lot of people - "He looked at me funny, I HATE HIM!"

Rashid

Try being a Muslim in the immediate aftermath of 7/7 and see what its like.

Well, I can't try being a muslim, but I'm darker skinned than most people in this country to the point where I do sometimes get looks and airport security take me to the side and ask me questions pretty much everytime I fly. I've even been stopped and name-checked by the police at an airport. Honestly, doesn't bother me.

Reply 76

conservativebohemian

Sorry but are you all a bunch of idiots?
Since when has Hindusm been a race?
Ignorant fools.

Reply 77

The Green Manalishi

How did this thread descend into this? :hmpf:

Reply 78

Longshoredrift80

conservativebohemian

Sorry but are you all a bunch of idiots?
Since when has Hindusm been a race?
Ignorant fools.

Who said it was?

Reply 79

SolInvictus

JonathanH

Who said it was?

Techically it is. The term Hindu applied to the native peoples of the Indian subcontinent who spoke either an Indo-Aryan or Dravidian language. Only later did it become the designation of a religion.