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Why are maths degrees held in such high regard?

In the 'what are the easiest degrees?' thread, people sarcastically (and, anecdotal-y, inventively - I mean seriously, where's the wit?!) posted maths.

One would assume that this implies people see it as the most difficult degree:
Is it because of people's experience at GCSE and A Level where the numbers scared them? If so, university maths is nothing like that. Physics is probably more so;

Do people wrongly equate opportunities after graduation with the difficulty of the degree? Engineers have more or less the same prospects in similar fields to mathematicians after graduating, for example;

I think it's because of the reputation of Cambridge mathematics in particular. It's seen as an almost iconic course and I think people assume that since Cambridge's maths degree is their hardest then it must be the case that it's difficult everywhere else too, even if not to the same level as at Cambridge.

Maths teaches you to become a master of abstract thinking and logic but so do (analytic) philosophy, economics (game theory) and computer science.

So, again, I ask: Why are maths degrees held in such high regard?
(edited 10 years ago)

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Simply because an awful lot of people aren't very good at the very basic maths taught at an early age; in fact it is very socially acceptable to boast about not being good at maths, sadly (however, being proud of not being able to read does not have the same effect).

In terms of career prospects, maths students often do quite well. However, I am not sure whether most of the jobs they take are jobs in which a maths degree is a requirement, or whether it's just the case that people who study maths at university are very intelligent and hard working. To be honest, there aren't an awful lot of jobs that actually use much maths, let alone actual degree level maths. It would be quite interesting to see what kind of jobs maths graduates actually go into.

Physics also has a very similar level of respect, too, and amongst university educated people engineering also enjoys a lot of respect.

It would also be interesting to see how much the career prospects of a maths graduate varies between different universities. I would suspect that the ones at the top who can get into careers like investment banking bring the average up.
Because, to me, it seems like a foreign language that I'd never be able to make sense of; thus, I respect anyone who has the ability to study such a challenging subject :tongue:

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Reply 3
In this country it does, but in most less developed in countries it wouldn't be regarded as highly because it is not as vocational as subjects such as medicine and engineering.
Reply 4
I'd say its a transferable skill to many aspects of jobs. People over here aren't particularly good at either compared to the rest of the world.
Its a degree like an Arts or History one...the opposite side of the same coin.

People think it is more difficult than the other side of the coin but its the same difficulty IMO.



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Reply 6
Original post by Smack
Simply because an awful lot of people aren't very good at the very basic maths taught at an early age

So I guess ignorance plays a big role. I hate to sound like I'm 'tooting my own horn' so I hope it doesn't come across that way but I I think I am a pretty good mathematician but suck at some of the more basic 'maths' - ie. number manipulation - while finding proofs and real maths comes naturally.
My point is that they are nothing alike and so to give maths the high regard it has based on childhood experience of elementary mathematics does not make a lot of sense.

Original post by Lucy96
Because, to me, it seems like a foreign language that I'd never be able to make sense of; thus, I respect anyone who has the ability to study such a challenging subject :tongue:

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Do you have the same appreciation for languages like Arabic or Japanese or is it the abstract nature that makes maths seem difficult to comprehend?
Reply 7
I think it's because for most people, they either 'get' maths or they don't. A lot of people seem to have had bad experiences with maths at GCSE/A level and see it as a really hard subject that only the super clever can understand, so people regard it more highly. I think the difficulty of maths at Cambridge also helps maths as a degree more highly regarded than some other degrees.:smile:
Original post by Oxford Blues
So I guess ignorance plays a big role. I hate to sound like I'm 'tooting my own horn' so I hope it doesn't come across that way but I I think I am a pretty good mathematician but suck at some of the more basic 'maths' - ie. number manipulation - while finding proofs and real maths comes naturally.
My point is that they are nothing alike and so to give maths the high regard it has based on childhood experience of elementary mathematics does not make a lot of sense.


Okay, but very, very few people are exposed to what a mathematician would call "real" maths, and it is elementary maths that a lot of people struggle with.
Reply 9
i think maths is the most intellectual subject. maths tests your problem solving ability more so than any other subject
Reply 10
Though I don't do maths, I can quite happily admit its probably the hardest subject there is, purely in terms of conceptual difficulty
Reply 11
Original post by Oxford Blues
So I guess ignorance plays a big role. I hate to sound like I'm 'tooting my own horn' so I hope it doesn't come across that way but I I think I am a pretty good mathematician but suck at some of the more basic 'maths' - ie. number manipulation - while finding proofs and real maths comes naturally.
My point is that they are nothing alike and so to give maths the high regard it has based on childhood experience of elementary mathematics does not make a lot of sense.


Do you have the same appreciation for languages like Arabic or Japanese or is it the abstract nature that makes maths seem difficult to comprehend?


I'm better at the simple math, and actually really horrible at finding proofs. This is why i'm not doing maths at uni.
Reply 12
Original post by Oxford Blues
In the 'what are the easiest degrees?' thread, people sarcastically (and, anecdotal-y, inventively - I mean seriously, where's the wit?!) posted maths.

One would assume that this implies people see it as the most difficult degree:
Is it because of people's experience at GCSE and A Level where the numbers scared them? If so, university maths is nothing like that. Physics is probably more so;

Do people wrongly equate opportunities after graduation with the difficulty of the degree? Engineers have more or less the same prospects in similar fields to mathematicians after graduating, for example;

I think it's because of the reputation of Cambridge mathematics in particular. It's seen as an almost iconic course and I think people assume that since Cambridge's maths degree is their hardest then it must be the case that it's difficult everywhere else too, even if not to the same level as at Cambridge.

Maths teaches you to become a master of abstract thinking and logic but so do (analytic) philosophy, economics (game theory) and computer science.

So, again, I ask: Why are maths degrees held in such high regard?


Because the vast majority of people could not get a first in a maths degree. I could never have done my bfs degree (maths) but he could have done mine (biology) well enough. Everyone I know who studied maths could have easily excelled at a number of other subjects, they're all just really clever.
The reason mathematics is held in high regard is because a lot of the population find it difficult. The reason they find it difficult is because they have no interest in it and do not excel, the reason they have no interest in it is because they cannot see its application to life. I would guess that the vast majority of the population never have to use any mathematics beyond addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, fractions, percentages, angles, shape? All things you learn in primary school and I think quite a lot of kids still enjoy it at that age. It all goes topsy turvy is secondary school.

So those who go on and do a degree in mathematics are deemed the elite of the elite by those who didn't make it, which is true in a sense. However they are the elite of a subject which is drilled into us from a young age to be of utmost importance by schools and the government. This, despite having little relevance to 'real world math' which is done mostly on a piece of equipment we all have access to...

A smartphone calculator.

For those of you that study Math academically, this isn't meant as a slight on your subject, I just find it bemusing that we subject students to years of mental mathematics training that can be done instantaneously on a piece of technology. If anything, I would prefer students to use that technology as young as possible to solve more complex mathematical problems, which have some real world application.
(edited 10 years ago)
Entry requirements always highest for Maths at top unis.
Maths is not difficult in general. What it is is slow, and precise. You can't learn the next level without having mastered the previous one. Maths is for people who are prepared to spend hours practicing techniques methodically, and who have been encouraged to do so since a young age (even 'maverick' mathematicians have that background). A small amount of time and pressure build up to something with the illusion of immense difficulty, and it is very hard for someone without that background to 'break into' higher level mathematics later on.

Other subjects are not necessarily less academically rigorous, but they all have a slight 'give'; the best philosophers will be as precise as the best mathematicians, but the worst mathematicians will fail, whilst the worst philosophers can sometimes get by on a small amount of information and their wit.

Maths is the academic rigour of all subjects, but laid bare with no escape.
Original post by redferry
Because the vast majority of people could not get a first in a maths degree. I could never have done my bfs degree (maths) but he could have done mine (biology) well enough. Everyone I know who studied maths could have easily excelled at a number of other subjects, they're all just really clever.


I am biased, but I would agree with this statement.

There's no good method to compare difficulty of subjects, but one way you may try to be objective about it is to consider how easy students doing other degrees would find it. For example, I think most mathematicians would do at least passably well on a history degree, but a high percentage of historians would outright fail a maths degree.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Octohedral
Maths is not difficult in general. What it is is slow, and precise. You can't learn the next level without having mastered the previous one. Maths is for people who are prepared to spend hours practicing techniques methodically, and who have been encouraged to do so since a young age (even 'maverick' mathematicians have that background). A small amount of time and pressure build up to something with the illusion of immense difficulty, and it is very hard for someone without that background to 'break into' higher level mathematics later on.


Being a subject of precision, rigour and with stringent requirements on understanding the material sequentially sounds pretty difficult to me :wink:.

Anyway, maths is not just about being methodical and slow. Problem solving often requires lateral thinking and novel insight - though you do get better at this with practice.
Its considered difficult by arts and humanities students because the fact we are doing arts and humanities means we are not very good with numbers. There are quite a lot of people with dyscalculia that haven't been diagnosed, just as many as with dyslexia which is more commonly diagnosed. Its quite staggering how awful some science students are at basic spelling, reading and writing, on the same token.
Reply 19
Original post by Copperknickers
Its considered difficult by arts and humanities students because the fact we are doing arts and humanities means we are not very good with numbers. There are quite a lot of people with dyscalculia that haven't been diagnosed, just as many as with dyslexia which is more commonly diagnosed. Its quite staggering how awful some science students are at basic spelling, reading and writing, on the same token.


Every science student I know that has gone to a good university has also been extremely good at English (to the point where most of them could have studied it at an RG uni). An extremely small number of people that are intelligent will be bad at spelling or writing, look at the admissions stats for Oxford: most people will have A*A* in GCSE English Lit. & Lang, including science students. From my experience people studying humanities subjects at worse universities are nowhere near as good at writing as science students at better universities.

You're generalising too much.

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