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Response to terrorism - have we all gone crazy?
A post in the 9/11 thread raised a topic which I have thought about previously and deserved its own thread.
My point in a nutshell is nobody hates terrorists. I define terrorist in this situation as individuals that would attempt, or plan to, randomly and non-purposefully take innocent lives. Obviously that first sentance wasnt completely true but im going out of my head about were everyone seems to point the finger not at the terrorists, but the goverment who seem to be able to do no right.
I belive laughing at something is the greatest insult you can do. A few months ago I had the pleasure to watch a sketch which showed a fake news report in which a bunch of would-be terrorists sent out a message of hate to viewers, only before continuing to be humiliated pubicly in about every way conceivable. It was well done and hillarious. Unfortunatley it is a rare breed.
Anyone whos even slightly into the popular music scene knows the bangwaggon of "rock against bush". I detest Bush as much as the next sensible person, but on hearing yet anouther "Head like a Hole" I ask myself if there is any scrap of originality left. When the Stones sang "Satisfaction" or the Sex Pistols sang "God save the queen" the messages of civil disobedience were revolutinary and profound. Now the same old stuff sounds, well, old.
Im still shocked to see the pictures of protestors in the UK holding placards reading "Kill those who insult us" like somehow THEY have the right to govern the county though murderous force that has given then citizenship over their religion, and their religion only. Though I will leave out the discussion on what they think alows them to make statements like this, I have seen no backlash by the media and society as a whole to this. When Blair is getting the third degree by seemingly the "goverment is the root of all evil" population of the UK (it seems to be really in fashion at the moment) I never seem to hear of some brave soul who stands up and says "You know what really pisses me off? Terrorists."
So I plead with you, please just for a moment direct your attention from Bush, Blair and the illegal and unjustifiable way in Iraq. Terrorists HAVE taken lives in disgusting, pointless ways over the last few years, in both other countries and our own. They ARE evil people who cannot keep to the morals of modern society. Please take some times to discuss the real root of our situation. If your an artist of any sort and you feel the same way as I do, please express your feelings, the result will be exciting and new I promise you. And whatever you do, dont be a sheep, formulate your OWN opinions, dont just take someone elses.
My point in a nutshell is nobody hates terrorists. I define terrorist in this situation as individuals that would attempt, or plan to, randomly and non-purposefully take innocent lives. Obviously that first sentance wasnt completely true but im going out of my head about were everyone seems to point the finger not at the terrorists, but the goverment who seem to be able to do no right.
I belive laughing at something is the greatest insult you can do. A few months ago I had the pleasure to watch a sketch which showed a fake news report in which a bunch of would-be terrorists sent out a message of hate to viewers, only before continuing to be humiliated pubicly in about every way conceivable. It was well done and hillarious. Unfortunatley it is a rare breed.
Anyone whos even slightly into the popular music scene knows the bangwaggon of "rock against bush". I detest Bush as much as the next sensible person, but on hearing yet anouther "Head like a Hole" I ask myself if there is any scrap of originality left. When the Stones sang "Satisfaction" or the Sex Pistols sang "God save the queen" the messages of civil disobedience were revolutinary and profound. Now the same old stuff sounds, well, old.
Im still shocked to see the pictures of protestors in the UK holding placards reading "Kill those who insult us" like somehow THEY have the right to govern the county though murderous force that has given then citizenship over their religion, and their religion only. Though I will leave out the discussion on what they think alows them to make statements like this, I have seen no backlash by the media and society as a whole to this. When Blair is getting the third degree by seemingly the "goverment is the root of all evil" population of the UK (it seems to be really in fashion at the moment) I never seem to hear of some brave soul who stands up and says "You know what really pisses me off? Terrorists."
So I plead with you, please just for a moment direct your attention from Bush, Blair and the illegal and unjustifiable way in Iraq. Terrorists HAVE taken lives in disgusting, pointless ways over the last few years, in both other countries and our own. They ARE evil people who cannot keep to the morals of modern society. Please take some times to discuss the real root of our situation. If your an artist of any sort and you feel the same way as I do, please express your feelings, the result will be exciting and new I promise you. And whatever you do, dont be a sheep, formulate your OWN opinions, dont just take someone elses.
Hmm, what a badly thought out thread, if you don't mind me saying. 
How about both? The government do a bloody hard job and, it's got to be said, make a bit of a mess of it at times, but the country's still holding together.
Convince me.
I'm sure you'd do a much better job as the President of the most powerful country in the world... oh, you wouldn't? Guess we'd better detest you too then. This is a little bit intolerant, isn't it? Again, he might **** up occasionally, but they wouldn't be the most powerful nation in the world without a bit of leadership.
"Only" is a big word. For some people, their religion is their life.
Heh, probably because terrorists aren't a big group in charge of our country. Sure, one or two of them come along every so often and kill a few people but they take themselves along with them. Terrorist comes along, bang, people dead, but no more terrorist. It's one of those things - either we catch them before they do anything, or they do something terrorist-y but then go and kill themselves. Besides, this is like saying "you know what really pisses me off? Murder, theft and rape". Ridiculous. Of course it pisses people off.
So have Bush and Blair.
So are... no, I won't say it.
Ok. Well, I'm not taking your opinion, because it's crap. Terrorists are bad. Wars in Iraq are bad. Killing is bad in general. There is no one "real root of our situation" - if anything, it's plural, by a long way.
Edit: oh, and back to:
Next time I see someone wielding a knife/gun/bomb/death device, I'll just laugh at them. They'll be so insulted they'll die on the spot. Or, no, maybe I'll phone the police, put my trust in the country, and actually live through the situation.
Kristafon
My point in a nutshell is nobody hates terrorists. I define terrorist in this situation as individuals that would attempt, or plan to, randomly and non-purposefully take innocent lives. Obviously that first sentance wasnt completely true but im going out of my head about were everyone seems to point the finger not at the terrorists, but the goverment who seem to be able to do no right.
How about both? The government do a bloody hard job and, it's got to be said, make a bit of a mess of it at times, but the country's still holding together.
Kristafon
I belive laughing at something is the greatest insult you can do. A few months ago I had the pleasure to watch a sketch which showed a fake news report in which a bunch of would-be terrorists sent out a message of hate to viewers, only before continuing to be humiliated pubicly in about every way conceivable. It was well done and hillarious. Unfortunatley it is a rare breed.
Convince me.
Kristafon
Anyone whos even slightly into the popular music scene knows the bangwaggon of "rock against bush". I detest Bush as much as the next sensible person
I'm sure you'd do a much better job as the President of the most powerful country in the world... oh, you wouldn't? Guess we'd better detest you too then. This is a little bit intolerant, isn't it? Again, he might **** up occasionally, but they wouldn't be the most powerful nation in the world without a bit of leadership.
Kristafon
Im still shocked to see the pictures of protestors in the UK holding placards reading "Kill those who insult us" like somehow THEY have the right to govern the county though murderous force that has given then citizenship over their religion, and their religion only.
"Only" is a big word. For some people, their religion is their life.
Kristafon
Though I will leave out the discussion on what they think alows them to make statements like this, I have seen no backlash by the media and society as a whole to this. When Blair is getting the third degree by seemingly the "goverment is the root of all evil" population of the UK (it seems to be really in fashion at the moment) I never seem to hear of some brave soul who stands up and says "You know what really pisses me off? Terrorists."
Heh, probably because terrorists aren't a big group in charge of our country. Sure, one or two of them come along every so often and kill a few people but they take themselves along with them. Terrorist comes along, bang, people dead, but no more terrorist. It's one of those things - either we catch them before they do anything, or they do something terrorist-y but then go and kill themselves. Besides, this is like saying "you know what really pisses me off? Murder, theft and rape". Ridiculous. Of course it pisses people off.
Kristafon
So I plead with you, please just for a moment direct your attention from Bush, Blair and the illegal and unjustifiable way in Iraq. Terrorists HAVE taken lives in disgusting, pointless ways over the last few years, in both other countries and our own.
So have Bush and Blair.
Kristafon
They ARE evil people who cannot keep to the morals of modern society.
So are... no, I won't say it.
Kristafon
Please take some times to discuss the real root of our situation. If your an artist of any sort and you feel the same way as I do, please express your feelings, the result will be exciting and new I promise you. And whatever you do, dont be a sheep, formulate your OWN opinions, dont just take someone elses.
Ok. Well, I'm not taking your opinion, because it's crap. Terrorists are bad. Wars in Iraq are bad. Killing is bad in general. There is no one "real root of our situation" - if anything, it's plural, by a long way.
Edit: oh, and back to:
Kristafon
I belive laughing at something is the greatest insult you can do.
Next time I see someone wielding a knife/gun/bomb/death device, I'll just laugh at them. They'll be so insulted they'll die on the spot. Or, no, maybe I'll phone the police, put my trust in the country, and actually live through the situation.
Kristafon
I agree.... I am actualy pro Blair on many accounts. A lot of the point of this thread was how it annoys me how people constantly blame the goverment for anything, but didnt want to alienate people by saying I was 100% pro goverment, which I am not.
Fine. I'm not "pro-Blair" at all. I agree with what he does well and disagree with what he does badly. War against Iraq was ****ing dumb. On the other hand, our country's standing and so's theirs, so he can't be that awful.
Kristafon
I cant prove that I find something powerful or not! Its my opinion, if you choose not to accept it, fine.
You also can't use it as a logical argument.
Kristafon
Powerful is not always good, powerful can be anything but fair. If anything Bush in the long run could diminish his countrys power if he goes about pissing off the rest of the world much longer. It seems that he is only really standing on the shoulders of giants. Im not a president, and dont want to be. I belive there other politicans that could have done a much greater job than he has done.
Right. Does that mean he's doing the terrible job everyone says he is? See my comment on Blair.
Kristafon
He's not the best in the world, but he's certainly not endangering America. By the end of his term the only difference will be a slight and natural inflation and hundereds of millions of people living in a country where their rights to choice, freedom of sexuality and right to equality have gone back a few decades. I think thats pretty poor leadership
Yeah. But then the country is still, you know, the most powerful thing on this planet. Solar system. Whatever.
Kristafon
It still does NOT justify murder. End of.
In your opinion. Some people would say that (insert anything here) does not justify blasphemy against the creator of the entire universe.
Kristafon
The point of this thread is the under represenation it receives. Its hard to construct and argument here because I cannot see where you are really heading.
It was two separate points. Firstly, terrorism isn't an established power - we'll always have the government and so on, but there's no "House of Terrorists" standing over us dictating what we do killing on a regular basis. It's hard to hate something that doesn't exist in that respect. On the other hand (and my second point), it's fine to hate individual terrorists in the same way you can hate murderers and rapists. But then, if that's what you mean, I don't see where you are really heading. (Besides - again, many terrorists would say it's for their religion. And there have been plenty of people or all religions or none who've both killed and died for their faith.)
Kristafon
Casulties of the illegal war have been due to attempts to acheive military goals. As bad as the intentions are, the during the conflict to civilians have not been random or done through hatred. The mind of a terrorist and the mind of someone organising a military operation is different. If you belive people have been killed by the UK and USA in the same way that a terrorist would, then you are a sheep and need to seriously rethink what is going on here.
Ahem... an illegal military operation, begun because we wanted their oil. And it incited terror. That's what terrorism is.
Kristafon
Once again you miss the point entirely. Dont be stupid. Insulting someone over the long run is different from protecting yourself from a particular incident and you know it. This is deffinatley not what I meant, your attempting to pick holes where you cant.
Oh, I think you'll find I just did. Twice.
Kristafon
Terrorists HAVE taken lives in disgusting, pointless ways over the last few years, in both other countries and our own. They ARE evil people who cannot keep to the morals of modern society. Please take some times to discuss the real root of our situation. If your an artist of any sort and you feel the same way as I do, please express your feelings, the result will be exciting and new I promise you. And whatever you do, dont be a sheep, formulate your OWN opinions, dont just take someone elses.
If interpret this correctly, you are calling on people to express their sentiments about terrorism, and it annoys you that people don't do enough of this.
Yes, years ago, the establishment was rocked by the Sex Pistols et al, but you're right - songs that shout about what's wrong with the world are not as effective any more. I think the reason is that people realise you don't get things done by just shouting about them. Plus, shouting about terrorism doesn't do anything - who are you shouting at? The terrorists? I don't really understand what that would achieve.
Plus, in terms of general popularity of such works: I don't need someone to tell me that they hate terrorism - it has no artistic merit because everyone feels the same way. If they tell me how they have been affected by terrorism personally, I might start to listen.
EDIT: Ah, I forgot about this right at the start:
Kristafon
My point in a nutshell is nobody hates terrorists.
I was initially intrigued by such a bold statement which is clearly untrue, and was waiting for the arguments which would show this to be true. Would you like to justify this statement?
I would respond initially by saying that I am happy with the fact nobody hates terrorists. Hate is what drives those people to commit acts of terrorism, and it is in no way a bad thing that we aren't hearing shouts in the street of "death to the terrorists", it be completely hypocritical.
And on your point about comedy, I love references to the alleged foiled plots last month as a "bloody nuisance"! If there's one thing that the Brits have demonstrated in the past when faced with threats to our way of life, it's a sense of humour. There's no better way to reject all that the terrorists stand for than by mocking them with irony and satire that shows them they're wasting their time.
Kristafon
So I plead with you, please just for a moment direct your attention from Bush, Blair and the illegal and unjustifiable way in Iraq. Terrorists HAVE taken lives in disgusting, pointless ways over the last few years, in both other countries and our own. They ARE evil people who cannot keep to the morals of modern society. Please take some times to discuss the real root of our situation. If your an artist of any sort and you feel the same way as I do, please express your feelings, the result will be exciting and new I promise you. And whatever you do, dont be a sheep, formulate your OWN opinions, dont just take someone elses.
Pretentious and sanctamonius twaddle.
I belive laughing at something is the greatest insult you can do. A few months ago I had the pleasure to watch a sketch which showed a fake news report in which a bunch of would-be terrorists sent out a message of hate to viewers, only before continuing to be humiliated pubicly in about every way conceivable. It was well done and hillarious. Unfortunatley it is a rare breed.
The solution to the war on terror: laughing at their cocks.
NSiky
The solution to the war on terror: laughing at their cocks.
*laughs, unconvincingly*
Yes, everyone has gone crazy about terrorism.
I think a lot of people have gone crazy. The "severe" terrorist threat level maybe something to do with it. If you want to stop terrorsim why put sever in front of it, it makes it seem worse. Anti-terrorsim people need to do their job without creating terror in the process. I wasn't there but I gather it was the same kind of thing during the cold war when countries did actually have nuclear weapons aimed at us...
For the so called "War on Terror" (awful all-inclusive phrase meaning whatever the user wants it to mean) to work people need to be less terrified than they were.
The Governement pisses people off becasue it's policies effect every aspect of our life and if our life isn't perfect, it's the Government's fault. Terrorism plays an almost insignificant part in most people's lives and the Government's to blame for causing it (the general population didn't decide to attack and dethrone major islamic countries) and also for not stopping it if it's successful.
Additionally terrorists always get what they deserve i.e. death, torture, imprsionment. What more do you want. On the other hand it's the Government's fault for not recognising when someone is not a terrorist after sending them to Guantanamo Bay.
All Governments are always wrong in some way people need to recognise to force them to improve. However too often the media is a double edged sword which can influence opinions which may well be flawed. However if they write too much rubbish, people will stop buying their newspapers in theory. Then this breaks down becasue most newspapers sold are tabloids whose major selling points are celebrity news, royal scandals and free DVDs.
That my friends is why we are all going to hell on a handcart...
For the so called "War on Terror" (awful all-inclusive phrase meaning whatever the user wants it to mean) to work people need to be less terrified than they were.
The Governement pisses people off becasue it's policies effect every aspect of our life and if our life isn't perfect, it's the Government's fault. Terrorism plays an almost insignificant part in most people's lives and the Government's to blame for causing it (the general population didn't decide to attack and dethrone major islamic countries) and also for not stopping it if it's successful.
Additionally terrorists always get what they deserve i.e. death, torture, imprsionment. What more do you want. On the other hand it's the Government's fault for not recognising when someone is not a terrorist after sending them to Guantanamo Bay.
All Governments are always wrong in some way people need to recognise to force them to improve. However too often the media is a double edged sword which can influence opinions which may well be flawed. However if they write too much rubbish, people will stop buying their newspapers in theory. Then this breaks down becasue most newspapers sold are tabloids whose major selling points are celebrity news, royal scandals and free DVDs.
That my friends is why we are all going to hell on a handcart...
The things that get me are those ticker things they have on Fox News. 'Terror Level has been raised' with no explanation of why. Like, wow terror level up, better cancel my plans to go to the strip mall with 2 or 3 stores in case terrorists target it.
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