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Reply 60
dyslexic_banana


Mathematics A-level students are what you might describe as a 'self-selecting sample'; they're amongst the most intelligent A-level students, and would have GCSE grades considerably higher, on average, than those of the average Media Studies student; I'd say that the two groups of students represented the top and the bottom ends of A-level students, respectively, in terms of academic prowess. Were you to take the I.Q.s of the two groups, I assure you that the formerly-mentioned group would score significantly higher than the latterly-mentioned group. Mathematics is one of those subjects, ability at which correlates the most with intelligence, out of all subjects; to be good at that, on average, is to be more intelligent than to be good at any other subject. I've known some stupid people achieve average grades in English, Art and languages, but stupid people never succeed in Maths; it's just unheard of. Ability at Maths tends to correlate the most with ability at all subjects.

What does the average intelligence of the students in each subject have to do with anything? If maths students are on average so vastly intelligent then why do they have a considerably lower pass rate than Media Studies and vice-versa? This may display Media students to be on average less intelligent than Maths student's but does not show Media Studies in itself to be an 'easier' subject.

Humanities and sciences are completely different disciplines and in my experience most of those people who are adept at science (ad usually the ones who scoff at the 'easier' humanities) lack the ability to succeed in essay based subjects anyway. Funnily enough it is rare to encounter a humanities students attacking the sciences.

What is it with people's inabilit to respect different areas of study than their own? Yes, a minority of scientists go on to produce world enhancing inventions, but what percentage of A-Level and degree-level science students actually achieve that? Media and Social sciences are far more pertinent to the modern world and workplace than complex mathematics. Why can't people respect these subjects? It's utter snobbery and nothing more.
Laika
What does the average intelligence of the students in each subject have to do with anything?


Well, the more intelligent the student, on average, the higher his/her exam performance; that's what.

Laika
If maths students are on average so vastly intelligent then why do they have a considerably lower pass rate than Media Studies and vice-versa?


I don't see what relevance this bears, to the topic at hand, and I don't know it to be true, anyway, so I won't comment.

Laika
This may display Media students to be on average less intelligent than Maths student's but does not show Media Studies in itself to be an 'easier' subject.


I never said it was, although, come to think of it, I would say it was.

Laika
Humanities and sciences are completely different disciplines and in my experience most of those people who are adept at science (ad usually the ones who scoff at the 'easier' humanities) lack the ability to succeed in essay based subjects anyway. Funnily enough it is rare to encounter a humanities students attacking the sciences.


Maybe the last part tells us all something?

Laika
What is it with people's inabilit to respect different areas of study than their own?


Technically, I haven't said I disrespect arts subjects.

Laika
Yes, a minority of scientists go on to produce world enhancing inventions, but what percentage of A-Level and degree-level science students actually achieve that?


I don't know, but it's higher than that of A-level and degree-level arts students.

Laika
Media and Social sciences are far more pertinent to the modern world and workplace than complex mathematics. Why can't people respect these subjects? It's utter snobbery and nothing more.


If you think this, then go find employment statistics, for both arts and science graduates. I don't disrespect arts subjects, as such, but do think that science subjects tend to be more worthwhile, as they lead to better jobs for their graduates, which is surely what getting a degree is all about.
Reply 62
But what a boring world it would be without arts graduates!
Reply 63
dyslexic_banana

Maybe the last part tells us all something?

Yes...that humanities students aren't elitist arseholes who belittle everyone elses subjects. We're pretenscious arseholes too self-obsessed to care about that.

If you think this, then go find employment statistics, for both arts and science graduates. I don't disrespect arts subjects, as such, but do think that science subjects tend to be more worthwhile, as they lead to better jobs for their graduates, which is surely what getting a degree is all about.

That wasn't my point. Statistically I'm sure science degrees are more likely to land you a job. But the skills aquired from sciences don't equip you any more for life and employment than humanities (unless you're going to be a scientist or something obviously). It is the 'mickey mouse' subjects like media, sociology and psychology that most likely equip you with the most relevant and useful skills for employment and life in general (if you actually think about it practically rather than regurgitating ideas that have been automatically drummed into you by the education system).

And by the way, no I don't think the point of getting an education and a degree is for the purpose of getting a good job, though that is another common attitude amongst science students I find. I always figured getting an actual education was a pretty big part of the deal as well.
Reply 64
and I certainly think something somewhere has gone wrong when we have students being admitted on rubber-stamped BSc and BA courses holding DDD at A-level (which are defunct qualifications in themselves).


You mean like polytechnics did 30 odd years ago?
Laika
If maths students are on average so vastly intelligent then why do they have a considerably lower pass rate than Media Studies


Wasn't the exact opposite of this point argued futher up in this thread?! :confused:
Reply 66
I don't even know anymore.
I hate the term 'Mickey Mouse subjects' as many people link Media Studies with this term.

Many people assume that with subjects such as media studies, all the degree involves is film-watching, which is completley absurd.

I wanted to do a media degree, but I was fed up with the snobbery concerning the subject, and the lack of employmeny opportunities, that I decided not to do it. This is what I think will happen with many other students. Due to the stigma attached to so-called 'mickey mouse degrees' I feel that students will no longer want to apply for them, as many people feel that degrees such as media studies are worthless, when, in fact, they are just as important as any other subject.
Laika
That wasn't my point. Statistically I'm sure science degrees are more likely to land you a job. But the skills aquired from sciences don't equip you any more for life and employment than humanities (unless you're going to be a scientist or something obviously). It is the 'mickey mouse' subjects like media, sociology and psychology that most likely equip you with the most relevant and useful skills for employment and life in general (if you actually think about it practically rather than regurgitating ideas that have been automatically drummed into you by the education system).


Science degrees are more likely to land you a job, but the skills acquired from them don't equip you any more for employment than humanities? Contradictory stuff...
Reply 69
dyslexic_banana
Science degrees are more likely to land you a job, but the skills acquired from them don't equip you any more for employment than humanities? Contradictory stuff...

That's not remotely contradictory.

You know when you're having a debate and suddnely you get distracted from your main point and sucked down an irelevant and eendless avenue of bickering? This is one of those.

This is my point. Consider a career outside a specialist area (i.e. one that isn't directly pertinent to the knowledge gained in your degree, which given the abstract nature of most academic study, is a likely scenario.) Are you telling me the person who has spent 3 years studying science or maths is more qualified than someone who has studied a humanity - particularly if that humanity was in an area like sociology or media which is more relevant to day to day life than complex scientific theory?

My point is that you can't deem one area of study more valuable than another without valid reasoning. The fact that the study of science is more traditional is not a valid reason. Society evolves. Media and psychology play a major role in the modern world. Why should the study of these area be considered a joke?
Laika
Are you telling me the person who has spent 3 years studying science or maths is more qualified than someone who has studied a humanity - particularly if that humanity was in an area like sociology or media which is more relevant to day to day life than complex scientific theory?


You told me that Science subjects were more likely to land graduates jobs; hence, surely the graduates of the said subjects are seen as the most qualified?
Reply 71
But what a boring world it would be without arts graduates!

There'd be less alcoholics, I'm sure.
Reply 72
dyslexic_banana
You told me that Science subjects were more likely to land graduates jobs; hence, surely the graduates of the said subjects are seen as the most qualified?

Yes exactly, seen as the most qualified, not necassairly the most qualified in practice. And why is this? Because of the elitist attitudes to 'mickey mouse' subjects displayed in this thread.

Furthermore there are a number of other factors that could account for differences in employment statistics. Science graduates are probably more likely to go into a field directly related to their area and there are a lack of science graduates. Meanwhile Media Students would be competeing for jobs with graduates of other humanities and the media industry is already saturated. So it's not that simple.

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