What do you think about French schools and universities

Original post by Josb

Just read what tillytots wrote:

French universities are non-selective, so undergraduate degrees are oversubscribed (especially in the Arts, Humanities, Social Sciences and Medecine). You'll be one in hundreds, with many students only there for the generous social system, or because they heard that doing Law is cool, or "to get some chicks". You'll be better in the UK, unless you choose a particular degree, such as those I mentioned above, or a "double-licence", that are selective.
Not to mention that the administration is notoriously catastrophic, buildings are ugly (except for the Sorbonne and Strasbourg), and French campuses are just made for teaching - everything is closed past 6PM.

Of course that would never happen in the UK ... :wink:

(Yeah, maybe in the UK universities also provide you with social care and societies, but it is definitely not as UK universities would not know students who are only there for the experience ... )

And in Medicine everybody is learning for the exam after the first year, which is not easy and determines, wether you can stay on the course, so medicine is definitely not filled with people, who can't bother doing something serious. As well as law is definitely not a course, you can be very lazy. It all depends on university and course, yeah, but you are definitely wrong in your assumption, you can just go to university for fun, at least to a way larger extent, than in the UK. (I mean, it is really not the case that every university in the UK is the temple of academia with students learning all day round. Just look on TSR, how many people want to go to uni just for the experience ... )

Reply 22

yabbayabba

17

I studied at a French uni for a term during a year abroad, I wouldn't want to do my whole degree even if it is cheap. The courses are simply less challenging compared to UK courses of the same subject and level, administration is shocking and if you care about 'student life' it doesn't exist. From what I saw the concept of independent critical thinking doesn't exist to the French.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 23

Original post by Nathanielle

Of course that would never happen in the UK ... :wink:

(Yeah, maybe in the UK universities also provide you with social care and societies, but it is definitely not as UK universities would not know students who are only there for the experience ... )

And in Medicine everybody is learning for the exam after the first year, which is not easy and determines, wether you can stay on the course, so medicine is definitely not filled with people, who can't bother doing something serious. As well as law is definitely not a course, you can be very lazy. It all depends on university and course, yeah, but you are definitely wrong in your assumption, you can just go to university for fun, at least to a way larger extent, than in the UK. (I mean, it is really not the case that every university in the UK is the temple of academia with students learning all day round. Just look on TSR, how many people want to go to uni just for the experience ... )

As you pay a lot of money, I do think that the average English student is much more studious than French freshers, who for 50% could not care less about what they are studying.

In Medicine, the selection exam is at the end of the 1st year, therefore those who are repeating the year (because they failed) and already have attended the classes are making all the noise they can to prevent freshers from hearing the lecturer and make them fail.
[video="youtube;aqDjexDthus"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage& v=aqDjexDthus[/video]
(Yes, it's a class)
Do you have that in the UK?

Reply 24

Original post by Josb

Just read what tillytots wrote:

French universities are non-selective, so undergraduate degrees are oversubscribed (especially in the Arts, Humanities, Social Sciences and Medecine). You'll be one in hundreds, with many students only there for the generous social system, or because they heard that doing Law is cool, or "to get some chicks". You'll be better in the UK, unless you choose a particular degree, such as those I mentioned above, or a "double-licence", that are selective.
Not to mention that the administration is notoriously catastrophic, buildings are ugly (except for the Sorbonne and Strasbourg), and French campuses are just made for teaching - everything is closed past 6PM.

What exactly do you mean by non-selective?

Reply 25

Original post by tillytots

I went to french university on my year abroad, Paris IV sorbonne to be precise which has a pretty good rep.

Honestly it made me against 'free' higher education. I've bever seen such shocking admin and just appalling teaching. They were either not bothered or so strict and set out on humiliating the students. Poorly stocked libraries which were shut sundays and after 7 (except the pompidou but you have to queue for three + hours to get in there) no online resources, no structure to the lectures, it would just be classes of 200/300 pupils even in final year who obviously didn't want to be there. The university itself was in a stunning building but had nothing going for it except that.

This wasn't for economics or an haute ecole though, although there were lots of students who had done the 'prepa' for these

As far as I know, in France, you have the Grandes Ecoles and then below average underfunded universities. :/

Reply 26

Original post by Juichiro

What exactly do you mean by non-selective?

Everybody can go in the university of his choice, and enrol in the degree of his choice.

Reply 27

Original post by Josb

Everybody can go in the university of his choice, and enrol in the degree of his choice.

Regardless of the grades one has in high school?

Reply 28

Original post by Juichiro

Regardless of the grades one has in high school?

Yes...

Reply 29

Original post by Josb

Yes...

Woah!

So all it matters is that you pay for your course?

Reply 30

Original post by Juichiro

Woah!

So all it matters is that you pay for your course?

Education is free. The fees are ridiculous (~£200-300).

Reply 31

Original post by Josb

As you pay a lot of money, I do think that the average English student is much more studious than French freshers, who for 50% could not care less about what they are studying.

In Medicine, the selection exam is at the end of the 1st year, therefore those who are repeating the year (because they failed) and already have attended the classes are making all the noise they can to prevent freshers from hearing the lecturer and make them fail.
[video="youtube;aqDjexDthus"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage& v=aqDjexDthus[/video]
(Yes, it's a class)
Do you have that in the UK?

In the UK you can retake your A Levels modules and have only three courses, where you have to be really good to get into university. Impressive... So yeah, you can retake in the UK multiple times to reach the grades you need. I don't see, why Medicine in France should be different, just because you have an entrance exam ... You can go to a bad comprehensive in the UK and then want to study medicine, I bet the experience would be that different.

And no, there seem to be enough UK students, who take a loan out for drinking culture, not many contact hours, etc. ... (Studious, yeah ... )

And do me a favour, compare bad UK higher education to bad French higher education, but not Imperial to Valencienne.

Original post by Juichiro

What exactly do you mean by non-selective?

In a lot of courses you can enter, but after one year, you have a lot of drop-outs. So you are not selected by your A Levels, but by your actual performance at university. These means, that getting in might seem easy, but that does not mean, you get an easy ride. Then you have highly selective course as well, where you spent two years (or three) in Prepa, then proceed to a Grande Ecole, but those system does only apply to Engineering, Veterinary Medicine, Economics and the Science Po. (And ENS, to be precise, as there you have a wide range of subjects to choose from.) A Grance Ecole is a better funded university, so could be compared to the top of the league table in the UK. Law and Medicine are only taught at university.

Original post by Juichiro

Regardless of the grades one has in high school?

Yeah, but that does only count for non-selective courses. And discounting Prepa and all the highly recognized courses at University (mainly Law, Medicine, generally all courses you have no alternative in Prepa), then yeah, you end up with non-selective course, but honestly cut down Oxbridge, Imperial, etc. out of the British higher education system and you will end up with less impressive universities, too.

(Yeah, you have in France, some weired "traditions", but there are not allowed anywhere and most of the time - even in there worst form - only apply to some days, a part from some really strange Ecoles. They are more and more forbidden and trust me, French lectureres can get really easily angry towards those behaviour.)

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 32

Exceptional

21

Sciences Po. It's the French version of LSE.

Reply 33

Original post by Juichiro

Woah!

So all it matters is that you pay for your course?

That is rubbish. The Prepas are also free ... University in Scotland is free for EU and Scottish undergrads (I can't remember, that there only the English work and pay attention :wink:

) are free, Scandinavia, Germany, the list of states with free education is endless ...

Reply 34

Original post by Nathanielle

Yeah, but that does only count for non-selective courses. And discounting Prepa and all the highly recognized courses at University (mainly Law, Medicine, generally all courses you have no alternative in Prepa), then yeah, you end up with non-selective course, but honestly cut down Oxbridge, Imperial, etc. out of the British higher education system and you will end up with less impressive universities, too.

Warwick, Exeter, Manchester, Newcastle.. are still far better than any university in France. So it's not only about Oxbridge.

Reply 35

Original post by Josb

Warwick, Exeter, Manchester, Newcastle.. are still far better than any university in France. So it's not only about Oxbridge.

Really?

Reply 36

Original post by Juichiro

Really?

Yeah by far, unless if you go in one of the few special degrees I listed above.

Reply 37