Britain mixed race yes or no?

Howard

The celts arrived about 4000 years ago - before that the island was occupied by the ancient Britons.

Much later than that. 2000-2500 years ago is more in line with the time range we know of. In addition, the celts genetic markers place them in closer alignmentment with Iranian, Chukchi, Indian and Lapp groups than with other Europeans.

Reply 63

shady lane

I'm paying full fees and subsidizing the education that the British undergraduates receive.

I'm sorry Howard, but there is no argument against immigration, as long as the immigrants contribute to the economy--which in the case of Britain they absolutely do--other than being a racist or a xenophobe. Then again, maybe you'd would annoyed by the fact that in London, you can't get served by anyone who speaks English as a native language, as they are all Polish. Perhaps that's not a problem, since they're white?

Let me put it this way Shady Lane. How would you feel about a massiv influx of whites to Twi and Yoruba speaking areas until they became the majority.... wait there is a special word for that... colonisation!

I am all against racial discrimination, but Britons do have a right to ensure and demand that their country has an ethnic balance and new peoples assimilate while they remain a strong majority.

Reply 64

Howard

I live here because I love the fun and adventurous lives led by Mormons and I want to be a part of it. :rolleyes:

(Actually, I'll be leaving in a few weeks as I'm being relocated to TX - thank the Lord!)

I'm from TX! Which part will you be living in?

Reply 65

Oswy

15

alio~

Do you think its fine for Britain to be a mixed race country? Or do you think it is better if overall people stick to there own countries? A lot of older people have said that people should stick to there own country but Ive noticed that many young people think this is appauling racism.

The concept of 'race' is a problematic and arbitrary one, it follows that 'mixed-race' is also so flawed. You're also conflating 'countries' with 'races', so I advise that you do some work in your university library to flesh out the way these concepts are variously understood and argued over. I'd also advise that you learn the difference between the use of 'there' and 'their'; it will improve your marks when writing essays.

As for all this talk of 'natives', humans have been travelling around the planet for a period much longer than written history. The first humans to settle in what is today called the 'UK', came thousands of years ago from what is now called 'Europe'. As we are all one species we all have common ancestors, so, yes, even the most ardent racist idiot has 'African' ancestry (the continent where our species emerged and migrated across and out of).

Globalisation has accelerated the movement of people across the world so as to make the idea of ethnocentric nationalism not only intellectually and morally vacuuous but technically unsustainable.

I'm always amused at how white racists like to think that they are 'Anglo-Saxons' or 'Britons' when these are peoples who actually lived many generations ago. Even terms like 'Briton', 'Anglo-Saxon' and 'Celtic' are problematic because they suggest a certain singular unchanging ethnicity which can't be sustained by the evidence. As someone has already highlighted, for example, the Celts can be traced back to central Europe but would not have lived their lives as, say, those in modern Ireland who consider themselves Celts. It's worth also pointing out that while distinctive cultural forms can be identified, such as 'Celtic' this in no way implies some kind of self-policing avoidance of biological mingling with other populations. In other words, people of the past speaking in Anglo-Saxon or wearing Celtic clothing doesn't dictate a certain genetic heritage, it only demonstrates cultural reproduction/transmission.

A little study in medieval urban history will show how there have been constant streams of people coming to these Islands from all over Europe and beyond. It's entirely possible that some of us in this forum, despite appearing to be and thinking of ourselves as 'white Anglo-Saxons' have a relatively recent African ancestor or two - such as black Roman soldiers who settled and married locally.

Oswy.

Reply 66

Oswy

15

blackswan

multiculturalism is doomed

Multiculturalism is a fact, and it's growing ever more complex and embedded with globalisation.

The thing about multiculturalism is that it's a much wider phenomenon than is popularly understood. Watching American TV in the UK is multiculturalism, as is listening to Hip-Hop, eating chinese food or playing with Japanese inspired toys. There are male cultures, female cultures, adolescent cultures (like 'Goths' for example) and childhood cultures. There are sexual cultures, cultures of language use, cultures of religion. There are regional cultures, urban cultures, country cultures. There are class cultures; demonstrated in tastes in clothes, musical tastes and tastes in leisure activities for example. So, you see, given all these diversities of cultures - which, by the way, are not monolithic and exclusive, we inevitably live in multicultural societies.

Oswy.

Reply 67

superbug

I don't care if I get banned or whatever for this. But, Howard, you really need to **** off. I love the way you evaded my response to my previous response to your racism in the UKIP thread, but i'll say it once again - you need to stop speaking for everyone else in Britain. Now pack your bags and sod off back to the stormfront forums, you abysmal troll.

One of the unfortunate things about the internet is the fact that racists seem to think they aren't in the minority as they can congregate easily.

You completely misunderstand Howard. He is very un-PC, it being part of his humour and a way of annoying people on TSR, but I assure you that he is no racist.

It was not too long ago that he stated in a similiar thread that as long as people assimilate culturally, race is of no particularly great problem.

Reply 68

soup_dragon87

shady lane

Ahh, the so eduated British people don't know where these languages are spoken.

Yoruba and Igbo - Nigeria
Twi - Ghana

It's not that we don't know, we just don't care.

You also said that they come over here seeking good education etc. So how do think native Britons feel when they're told their child can't go to the school they want because some quota-filling foreign kid has taken his space? Freeloading, that's what it is. I've lived here my whole my life, I pay tax, and I expect my children to be able to get into the school they want. Suddenly some Igbo-speaking family turns up and jumps the queue. They can sod off.

Reply 69

IAMAPERSON

soup_dragon87

It's not that we don't know, we just don't care.

You also said that they come over here seeking good education etc. So how do think native Britons feel when they're told their child can't go to the school they want because some quota-filling foreign kid has taken his space? Freeloading, that's what it is. I've lived here my whole my life, I pay tax, and I expect my children to be able to get into the school they want. Suddenly some Igbo-speaking family turns up and jumps the queue. They can sod off.

Give me evidence that this has happened.

Reply 70

City bound

It's highly likely to have happened, maybe not an Igbo family, the Daily Mail finds them all the time!

There is something to it though, joining the cue is fine but jumping in is simply not British. We are a proud cue forming nation!

Reply 71

I personally don’t give much of a toss whether people are black, white or anything else... as long as they have something to contribute and are willing to subscribe to a liberal belief system, what harm can their being darker or lighter than me do?

However, to utterly dismiss any anxiety over immigration as racist is to misunderstand the issues many people have. Culture is a very important thing, and everyone I would think, would grasp that many people would feel alienated if they were rapidly forced to live within an entirely alien culture. Is it so odd that white residents of East London who have been there for 70 years may have an issue with their entire area becoming predominantly Pakistani? They have a personal preference for their familiar culture, and there is nothing inherently wrong with that as far as I can see.

There is much to be said for the notion that overly rapid immigration, without allowing the previous immigrants to integrate, can lead to problems.

Further, the immigration of cultures that do NOT hold true to a liberal doctrine IS a problem in a liberal country in that they gradually and disproportionately effect the lives of others and the live and let live attitude that so many in the UK (or elsewhere) value.

If it's xenophobic to dislike an influx of such beliefs - then I sir am xenophobic. The only problem is that it isn't. Xenophobia implies fear BECAUSE they are foreign - ie regardless of the substance of the person or their culture... just simply on the basis that neither are native.

Reply 72

Arminius

its Queue.

Anyway, most of the time people that are pro-immigration simply state the economic reasons for it. Which in my opinion are a short term answer to a long term problem. Its quite obvious that our economy is not sustainable, we cannot keep importing people forever as that is impossible. therefore the solution is to readjust our economy to a "steady state economy". I.e constant population.

The reason politicians don't do this is because it creates political problems for them (pensions, cheap workers at tesco etc), most of which don't effect them in their nice house in the country.

So i am anti-immigration because i don't think the reason we are doing it is sustainable. Point one.

I am also against it because it brings foreign languages, religions, culture and genes into the country displacing the native population. Some of this enriches our culture, but too much displaces what we have and threatens our national identity.

These differences lead to racial and cultural tensions, segregation and ghettoisation. All of which is bad for the country, an increase in crime and also less community spirit. Its common sense that a society cannot function unless the vast majority all speak english. Increasingly we see immigrants isolating themselves through their inability to communicate.

Also, we (for some ****ed up reason) have been importing immigrants that bring problems of their own. Such as pakistani communities that marry their cousins and thus have 100 times the national average for birth defects. The cost of which is paid for by the NHS. People that come into this country need to abide by our cultural traditions too. People that ignore sound scientific advice should not be welcome as it costs us money to look after these sick kids.

Myths of the multiculturalists:

Migrants, including immigrants, have been a key factor for the economic success for the UK for almost the last 2 centuries and now some people are saying they are completely against the principle.

Lies, before about 1950 99.9% of the population was white. Infact if we are gonna look at some correlations you can see that britains demise as a world power started .... in about 1950! (just a joke that one :wink:

) our great military and technological strength during the 18th and 19th century and the defeat of the enemy intwo world wars is down to the hard work of brits as you can see from the fact that 99.9% of the population of those times were white.

Reply 73

Zebedee

Lies, before about 1950 99.9% of the population was white. Infact if we are gonna look at some correlations you can see that britains demise as a world power started .... in about 1950! (just a joke that one :wink:

) our great military and technological strength during the 18th and 19th century and the defeat of the enemy intwo world wars is down to the hard work of brits as you can see from the fact that 99.9% of the population of those times were white.

White and immigrant are not mutually exclusive.

Reply 74

It is an interesting point to put though - is the economic argument for immigration an immoral one? Does it not amount to nothing more than the plunder and pillage of human capital from LDCs?

Reply 75

City bound

Lol. Cheers Zebedee, not quite sure how that hapened! :rolleyes:

Lawz-

It is an interesting point to put though - is the economic argument for immigration an immoral one? Does it not amount to nothing more than the plunder and pillage of human capital from LDCs?

An abundance of people with low quality human capital is one of the greatest problems faced by LDCs. The low to negative marginal effect (on output) of their citizens makes development incredibly difficult. So no, I wouldn't say it is immoral. If anything we are doing them a favour by taking people off their hands.

Reply 76

Arminius

Ok, 99.8% were "natives". White "immigrants" counted for as small a fraction as non-white immigrants. You can see my point that the notion that we owe 2 centuries of economic progress to immigrants cannot be true.

As for the moral issue, if the immigrants choose to come here then i cannot see it. Its a bit like the private school creaming off the brightest pupils from the catchment area. All the pupils chose to go to the private school, so they got what they wanted and so did the private school but the other schools are left with a lower skilled pupils.

The effects of immigration on those african counties cultures does not amount to much though, for every person that leaves 10 more are born so they are not losing their population or being displaced. In biological terms these african counties are doing rather well, they are exporting their genes better than we are exporting ours, hence the unnatural situation we find ourselves in. Where the stronger country is actually decreasing its share of the gene pool and the weaker country increasing if (off the backs of the stronger country).

It never happens like that in nature.

Reply 77

City bound

An abundance of people with low quality human capital is one of the greatest problems faced by LDCs. The low to negative marginal effect (on output) of their citizens makes development incredibly difficult. So no, I wouldn't say it is immoral. If anything we are doing them a favour by taking people off their hands.

I am referring to highly skilled migrants, such as doctors, nurses, etc.

Reply 78