No tolerance for bigotry on TSR
I appreciate current efforts to maintain TSR as a space and collection of discussions and information that all students can contribute to and be involved in. Regrettably, I don't think TSR does enough.
There is definitely an air of jungle law being the prevailing one, with moderators doing the difficult task of trying to clean up the mess, with the help of users who are vigilant or so inclined.
TSR's overwhelming silence in the face of sustained racism, sexism and bigotry is as bad as the actions of perpetrators because it culminates in the same forum, where the most popular threads are the most oppressive.
I suggest TSR takes a stance akin to Oklahoma University's recent no tolerance approach to their SAE fraternity branch, coupled with a series of articles which could be find under a tab on the menu bar after "Forums" labelled, Ground Rules". Here could be found the ground rules for the forum, the penalty system, and a series of articles explaining recurring issues on TSR. For example:
-What is sexism?
-What is racism?
-Why is only possible for white people to be racist?
-What is bigotry?
-Cornerstones to respectful and productive discussion (open-mindedness, respect, avoiding the above...)
-A potted British history, from 1500-1750 (and so on for different time periods until today)
TSR, could employ academics or freelance researchers to write these articles- I think it's important that the writers are vetted and the articles do not remain open for editting. Most people don't learn any of this at school or University, in Britain. Teenagers and young adults are working through these issues online, under what they feel is a veil of anonymity. Some posters of course are not so benign, and merely being provocative and abusive in ways they know they could not get away with in their everyday lives. It is unfortunate that TSR is enabling them to do so on this forum. It is a toxic space for some groups of people. It is normalising appalling attitudes and behaviours, which cannot fail to have a bearing on people away from this forum.
It may only be a minority of people who vocalise these ideas and opinions, but they currently dominate this forum. It is now an outpost for 'Red pill' disciples, and is not somewhere I would encourage GCSE students I mentor to seek advice on A level options, for example. And young people do rely on social media and internet forums today, more than ever, to inform themselves and placate anxieties.
Oklahoma University's no tolerance stance on racism:
" We don't provide student services to bigots."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/racist-chan...cid=fb_abcn_sf
The President of the University said he couldn't sleep after watching the video- could the same be said for TSR management?:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-31802738
I make this suggestion because on the whole TSR is great, it can a useful source of information for degree and careers information you can't find elsewhere, and a way for students to communicate with other students, socialise and help one another, filling the gaps other sources of information could not. I appreciate the efforts moderators and others make to ensure it is so and I'm sure I'm not alone in that. But I feel that if we can improve TSR we should. And if there's room for advertisements, I feel there is definitely room for more prominent ground rules, informative articles and a revision to the penalty system.
TL DR: I think bigotry is counterproductive to the raison d'etre of a discussion forum.
Edit:
http://mic.com/articles/113674/one-of-the-biggest-reasons-harassment-persists-on-social-media-is-one-we-never-talk-about
Interesting article which iterates the need for social media to distinguish between hate speech and free speech, and actively make sure gender and raced based attacks are prevented and punished. TSR is failing on all counts, the longer the software developers and managers of the site continue to do nothing, the longer you are implicitly supporting the racism and misogyny which now characterises TSR. There is no such thing as a neutral social media website, or neutral management - you need to put yourself in the shoes of our societies lowest common denominators, because chances are if you are a white boy, you have no idea how distressing and harmful to one's mental health something as simple as surfing the internet can be. The question is how much you care, the answer to which will be demonstrated by what you choose do with the website.
There is definitely an air of jungle law being the prevailing one, with moderators doing the difficult task of trying to clean up the mess, with the help of users who are vigilant or so inclined.
TSR's overwhelming silence in the face of sustained racism, sexism and bigotry is as bad as the actions of perpetrators because it culminates in the same forum, where the most popular threads are the most oppressive.
I suggest TSR takes a stance akin to Oklahoma University's recent no tolerance approach to their SAE fraternity branch, coupled with a series of articles which could be find under a tab on the menu bar after "Forums" labelled, Ground Rules". Here could be found the ground rules for the forum, the penalty system, and a series of articles explaining recurring issues on TSR. For example:
-What is sexism?
-What is racism?
-Why is only possible for white people to be racist?
-What is bigotry?
-Cornerstones to respectful and productive discussion (open-mindedness, respect, avoiding the above...)
-A potted British history, from 1500-1750 (and so on for different time periods until today)
TSR, could employ academics or freelance researchers to write these articles- I think it's important that the writers are vetted and the articles do not remain open for editting. Most people don't learn any of this at school or University, in Britain. Teenagers and young adults are working through these issues online, under what they feel is a veil of anonymity. Some posters of course are not so benign, and merely being provocative and abusive in ways they know they could not get away with in their everyday lives. It is unfortunate that TSR is enabling them to do so on this forum. It is a toxic space for some groups of people. It is normalising appalling attitudes and behaviours, which cannot fail to have a bearing on people away from this forum.
It may only be a minority of people who vocalise these ideas and opinions, but they currently dominate this forum. It is now an outpost for 'Red pill' disciples, and is not somewhere I would encourage GCSE students I mentor to seek advice on A level options, for example. And young people do rely on social media and internet forums today, more than ever, to inform themselves and placate anxieties.
Oklahoma University's no tolerance stance on racism:
" We don't provide student services to bigots."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/racist-chan...cid=fb_abcn_sf
The President of the University said he couldn't sleep after watching the video- could the same be said for TSR management?:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-31802738
I make this suggestion because on the whole TSR is great, it can a useful source of information for degree and careers information you can't find elsewhere, and a way for students to communicate with other students, socialise and help one another, filling the gaps other sources of information could not. I appreciate the efforts moderators and others make to ensure it is so and I'm sure I'm not alone in that. But I feel that if we can improve TSR we should. And if there's room for advertisements, I feel there is definitely room for more prominent ground rules, informative articles and a revision to the penalty system.
TL DR: I think bigotry is counterproductive to the raison d'etre of a discussion forum.
Edit:
http://mic.com/articles/113674/one-of-the-biggest-reasons-harassment-persists-on-social-media-is-one-we-never-talk-about
Interesting article which iterates the need for social media to distinguish between hate speech and free speech, and actively make sure gender and raced based attacks are prevented and punished. TSR is failing on all counts, the longer the software developers and managers of the site continue to do nothing, the longer you are implicitly supporting the racism and misogyny which now characterises TSR. There is no such thing as a neutral social media website, or neutral management - you need to put yourself in the shoes of our societies lowest common denominators, because chances are if you are a white boy, you have no idea how distressing and harmful to one's mental health something as simple as surfing the internet can be. The question is how much you care, the answer to which will be demonstrated by what you choose do with the website.
(edited 9 years ago)
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I disagree. If people want to post bigoted things they have every right to do so. Far better to allow it to continue. I've seen this sort of thing on TSR a few times and what it results in bigoted views being challenged and destroyed very publicly, which is far better than simply silencing it.
Free speech works both ways - they have a right to post bigoted nonsense, other people have the right to condemn that.
Free speech works both ways - they have a right to post bigoted nonsense, other people have the right to condemn that.
I'm all for discussing anything (no, really) but that only works when everyone is willing to engage in that discussion respectfully and with an open mind. Respectfully and with an open mind. The frustrating thing about a bigot is that you can't actually discuss their views with them. Where do you go from there?
And of course I support free speech. I am British. Free to express your views without fear of death or abuse. But not free to speak without constraint to your rights, if what you say contravenes the values and rules the community to whom you belong have agreed upon. With rights come responsibilities. Wouldn't you agree?
And of course I support free speech. I am British. Free to express your views without fear of death or abuse. But not free to speak without constraint to your rights, if what you say contravenes the values and rules the community to whom you belong have agreed upon. With rights come responsibilities. Wouldn't you agree?
Tsr is fine, people can write what they wish if people complain hopefully the mods respond responsibly and by responsibly I do not simply mean ban any thread that either a small or large group of people find offensive we have the right to offend in Britain it's part of free speech. By responsibly I mean making fair well thought out decisions that are not just based of popular thinking but are instead logical and carefully considered.
If you really fear for your students and think they can not think critically enough to read through the bs perhaps they should not be using the internet in the first place. Instead of creating more censorship online and creating boring uncreative threads designed to appeal to very few people.
(edited 9 years ago)
You don't really see flat out bigotry on TSR. I think the issue is that sometimes harsh critisim can be mistaken for bigotry. People interpret things differently depending on their viewpoint. If someone brings up an issue about false rape claims for example many might intepret the individual as a sexist, others see it as a valid thing to Bring up. You see the ambiguity. It gets to the point where people are severely retricted in what they can say, because one or two people disagree with their viewpoint and dismiss them as a bigot. That's the issue, what if it gets to the point where someone's emotionally charged viewpoit gets in the way of them rationally determining whether someone is being a Bigot or not.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Mancini
I find it sad and sort of laughable that you are a mentor and perhaps teacher who is promoting further censorship. We get enough of that on YouTube from feminist and other female groups who through mass complaining and awful bias get certain channels banned. This destroys places of communication online that some people enjoy all because one annoying vocal group thinks they can set the agenda and tell others what they can and cannot see.
Tsr is fine, people can write what they wish if people complain hopefully the mods respond responsibly and by responsibly I do not simply mean ban any thread that either a small or large group of people find offensive we have the right to offend in Britain it's part of free speech. By responsibly I mean making fair well thought out decisions that are not just based of popular thinking but are instead logical and carefully considered.
If you really fear for your students and think they can not think critically enough to read through the bs perhaps they should not be using the internet in the first place. Instead of creating more censorship online and creating boring uncreative threads designed to appeal to very few people.
Tsr is fine, people can write what they wish if people complain hopefully the mods respond responsibly and by responsibly I do not simply mean ban any thread that either a small or large group of people find offensive we have the right to offend in Britain it's part of free speech. By responsibly I mean making fair well thought out decisions that are not just based of popular thinking but are instead logical and carefully considered.
If you really fear for your students and think they can not think critically enough to read through the bs perhaps they should not be using the internet in the first place. Instead of creating more censorship online and creating boring uncreative threads designed to appeal to very few people.
Prime example of bigotry. There is nowhere to go in this conversation. Close-minded, insulting, rude, patronising. Also limited comprehension skills, but that is not a reason to criticise someone.
Aside from the fact that I disagree with much of what you have said, it's your intolerance close-mindedness which I find most disruptive, on a discussion forum.
Original post by Ikidyounot.
-Why is only possible for white people to be racist?
Well that sounds like a rather bigoted and racist statement to me. Oh yeah I forgot, It's not racism when it's being done to white people, that's how the Cultural Marxist's like to spin it, right?
No, we certainly do not need a bunch of haughty, academic, social justice types dictating what opinions can and cannot be discussed on TSR, and silencing people who hold views contrary to their politically correct narrative. We deal with the minority of genuine bigots here by debating and debunking their views, only the persistant trolls who are particularly abusive require banning. That's what makes this forum great, more or less any subject can be openly discussed in a respectful manner, no matter how controversial or contentious.
I'm also bemused to find that of all my threads, the one about bigotry has attracted the most attention, and of all users, it's people that support bigotry who are motivated to comment.
Maybe it's this sort of person that is more likely use TSR on a more regular basis.
If this is the case, perhaps this should be made more clear in the community rules and the homepage. Students and young people come here with certain expectations- I suspect many wouldn't if they knew what the majority of users are here for.
Maybe it's this sort of person that is more likely use TSR on a more regular basis.
If this is the case, perhaps this should be made more clear in the community rules and the homepage. Students and young people come here with certain expectations- I suspect many wouldn't if they knew what the majority of users are here for.
Original post by Ikidyounot.
Prime example of bigotry. There is nowhere to go in this conversation. Close-minded, insulting, rude, patronising. Also limited comprehension skills, but that is not a reason to criticise someone.
Aside from the fact that I disagree with much of what you have said, it's your intolerance close-mindedness which I find most disruptive, on a discussion forum.
Aside from the fact that I disagree with much of what you have said, it's your intolerance close-mindedness which I find most disruptive, on a discussion forum.
Look in a mirror, I am open minded you are the person who thinks only your view is important and those views you do not like should be banned to make you feel better. You are an embarrassment and the definition of what's wrong with modern Britain.
Also a great example of the pot calling the kettle black in your response, a hypocrite to the core. Remember everyone this is the sort of closed mind who may be mentoring your children, closed and uninspiring.
Original post by Mancini
Look in a mirror, I am open minded you are the person who thinks only your view is important and those views you do not like should be banned to make you feel better. You are an embarrassment and the definition of what's wrong with modern Britain.
Also a great example of the pot calling the kettle black in your response, a hypocrite to the core. Remember everyone this is the sort of closed mind who may be mentoring your children, closed and uninspiring.
Also a great example of the pot calling the kettle black in your response, a hypocrite to the core. Remember everyone this is the sort of closed mind who may be mentoring your children, closed and uninspiring.
^Perfect example of the chaos almost every thread I see descends into.
I don't tend to associate with people who address another person this way irl, and would not condone or accept it amongst children. I'm not yet convinced of why any of us should do so online.
Original post by Ikidyounot.
Prime example of bigotry. There is nowhere to go in this conversation. Close-minded, insulting, rude, patronising. Also limited comprehension skills, but that is not a reason to criticise someone.
Aside from the fact that I disagree with much of what you have said, it's your intolerance close-mindedness which I find most disruptive, on a discussion forum.
Aside from the fact that I disagree with much of what you have said, it's your intolerance close-mindedness which I find most disruptive, on a discussion forum.
strong hypocrisy.
Original post by ChickenMadness
strong hypocrisy.
Thank you so much chicken madness, glad it's not just me who can see it.
Original post by ChickenMadness
strong hypocrisy.
Exactly, lol.
Original post by Mancini
Only the politically correct brigade can support this thread. It's a joke, if you support free speech you know I am right.
I started this thread, clearly I am open to dialogue. You could have apologised for being rude, then we could have talked. It is possible to hold an opposing opinion without insulting someone. Now look. Where does that leave us and what have you/we achieved?
In the same position as before and precisely nothing, in my opinion.
TSR acts on directed hate, but it would be awful (and impossible to enact with their tiny force of free workers) if they tried to control everything on here with an iron fist.
People expressing different views is vital for charged discourse, if they are dicks about it then just let them embarrass themselves, string them up with wordplay and move on.
edit: you seem to take issue with people disagreeing with you aggressively, did you know Greek democracy/discourse was incredibly rowdy and incredibly similar to the sort of stuff on here?
People expressing different views is vital for charged discourse, if they are dicks about it then just let them embarrass themselves, string them up with wordplay and move on.
edit: you seem to take issue with people disagreeing with you aggressively, did you know Greek democracy/discourse was incredibly rowdy and incredibly similar to the sort of stuff on here?
(edited 9 years ago)
Perhaps people that feel passionate about offending and upsetting people are more inclined to speak and be vocal, than people than just want to get along.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Architecture-er
TSR acts on directed hate, but it would be awful (and impossible to enact with their tiny force of free workers) if they tried to control everything on here with an iron fist.
People expressing different views is vital for charged discourse, if they are dicks about it then just let them embarrass themselves, string them up with wordplay and move on.
People expressing different views is vital for charged discourse, if they are dicks about it then just let them embarrass themselves, string them up with wordplay and move on.
You feel that rules that everyone agrees on constitutes an iron fist?
Also out of interest, is that how you view the President of Oklahoma's stance on racism at his university- an iron fist?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by RFowler
I disagree. If people want to post bigoted things they have every right to do so. Far better to allow it to continue. I've seen this sort of thing on TSR a few times and what it results in bigoted views being challenged and destroyed very publicly, which is far better than simply silencing it.
Free speech works both ways - they have a right to post bigoted nonsense, other people have the right to condemn that.
Free speech works both ways - they have a right to post bigoted nonsense, other people have the right to condemn that.
See post below yours for response.
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