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Is Britain's sea border its biggest asset during this refugee crisis?

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Original post by HItchslapped
Sorry I waiting to hear where you obtained a figure of 20,000 migrants arriving in the UK?

I don't mind when people throw all the dirt.


Well if we are taking in 10,000 refugees as expected to be announced tomorrow due to the poor child washing up on a Turkish beach, you can bet the outcry and pressure on the government will be much higher if the incident happens again only this time on our own or France's coast. I dont understand why you're so fixated on the figure, yes its guesswork based of recent events but hardly unreasonable or outlandish
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Betelgeuse-
Well if we are taking in 10,000 refugees as expected to be announced tomorrow due to the poor child washing up on a Turkish beach, you can bet the outcry and pressure on the government will be much higher if the incident happens again only this time on our own or France's coast. I dont understand why your so fixated on the figure, yes its guesswork based of recent events but hardly unreasonable or outlandish



Because people who base their arguments on figures that are completely made up and unsubstantiated should not be taken seriously. By the way can you send the link in which 10,000 refugees will be accepted by the UK?
Original post by HItchslapped
Because people who base their arguments on figures that are completely made up and unsubstantiated should not be taken seriously. By the way can you send the link in which 10,000 refugees will be accepted by the UK?


So you don't believe you can predict future actions or behavior by looking at recent examples?

http://news.sky.com/story/1547608/syria-condemns-any-uk-military-interference


"Sky News understands that the Government is currently preparing to accept at least 10,000 people from camps on the Syrian border."
Original post by HItchslapped
I am going to be completely candid on this matter. With regards to Iraq, our country along with the US bombed and killed nearly a million people, leaving several more million in starvation and thus creating the circumstances in which ISIS emerged. We invaded Afghanistan killing hundreds of thousands of people, now it has the third largest number of refugees fleeing the country. We bombed Libya creating the largest uncontrolled border crossing from North Africa to Europe and have left that country devastated with no rule of law. And you're still contemplating whether we should even take in refugees we created?!

So the women of Afghanistan preferred it before we went in, when they were forbidden from attending school? When it was illegal to play football in the street?

Oh god what big bad nasty people we are.....
Original post by Vlad_Tepes
That's a hard number to figure out to be honest. Anyway, you should try to think why many services are under strain, like NHS for example. While many people like to point the finger at migration and immigrants living in this country (...)

Frankly, it doesn't matter what's causing it. Bringing in lots more people will make the problem worse.
We should subsidise boats for them to come in.
Original post by Betelgeuse-
So you don't believe you can predict future actions or behavior by looking at recent examples?

http://news.sky.com/story/1547608/syria-condemns-any-uk-military-interference


"Sky News understands that the Government is currently preparing to accept at least 10,000 people from camps on the Syrian border."


Only if you are an authority on the topic. If someone from a forum comes along without any credentials comes up with a figure after reading an article from sky news, then how would anybody take them seriously.

To be honest with you, 10,000 is a miserly number considering that Germany will and has taken in several times that number already and when poorer countries such as Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan and Turkey have taken in over 95% of Syrian refugees, we have people moaning about taking in a fraction the remaining 5% of refugees from Syria. We especially have a moral duty of accepting refugees that we created in Iraq and Libya and Afghanistan, the latter is now the third largest source of refugees.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by billydisco
So the women of Afghanistan preferred it before we went in, when they were forbidden from attending school? When it was illegal to play football in the street?

Oh god what big bad nasty people we are.....


Actually if you want to be serious the west actually supported and allowed the Taliban to exist in Afghanistan.

Besides I am interested to know how solving the issue of the Taliban was to bomb and invade the country killing hundreds of thousands of people as a result of the invasion and leaving the country devastated, millions in starvation. Now the Taliban and suicide bombing is rife and growing in popularity. Meanwhile Afghanistan is now the third largest source of refugees in the Middle east.

So far from being sarcastic.... I agree to your qualification Oh god what big bad nasty people we are.

If our government and the US wanted to stop the Taliban then they should of supported internal democratic forces since the Taliban was no popular at the time instead of bombing and invading the country.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by HItchslapped
To be honest with you, 10,000 is a miserly number considering that Germany will and has taken in several times that number already


Germany is much bigger, and we have a higher population density, so it's fair enough.
Original post by Skip_Snip
Germany is much bigger, and we have a higher population density, so it's fair enough.


We have a higher GDP. But that's besides the point. Comparatively speaking the number of refugees we are wiling to accept compared to the number Germany has and will accept makes any argument regarding population and land mass completely obsolete. I am not arguing we should take in the same numbers that Germany has done however we should take in our fair share, in particular the refugees we created, which our government has flat out rejected

It's certainly not fair enough that Lebanon which is around the size of Wales has, according to the UNHCR taken in nearly 2 million refugees.
Original post by HItchslapped
Comparatively speaking the number of refugees we are wiling to accept compared to the number Germany has and will accept makes any argument regarding population and land mass completely obsolete.


Not really. Why should we take more than we can fit?
Original post by Skip_Snip
Not really. Why should we take more than we can fit?


Who exactly is saying that the equal distribution of refugees in Europe based on population, GDP, unemployment would be taking in more than we can fit?
Original post by HItchslapped
Who exactly is saying that the equal distribution of refugees in Europe based on population, GDP, unemployment would be taking in more than we can fit?


Our low landspace and high population density, maybe? GDP isn't really relevant.
Original post by Skip_Snip
Our low landspace and high population density, maybe? GDP isn't really relevant.



In terms of Population density we are 51st in the world compare that to Germany which is 58th so if you argue that we have a so called 'high' population density then relativity speaking Germany also has a high population density since it is only 7 places from the UK. Lebanon is 21st. Furthermore why is GDP not relevant and more importantly I would like to know where you get your information from (a link perhaps?) that argues that the fair share of refugees we have been asked to take in by the UN is way way way off the charts?
Original post by HItchslapped
that argues that the fair share of refugees we have been asked to take in by the UN is way way way off the charts?


Any amount of refugees is a fair amount, becaused we have no obligation to bring them in.
Original post by Skip_Snip
Any amount of refugees is a fair amount, becaused we have no obligation to bring them in.


No the number is based on the criteria I gave you primarily GDP, population, employment and so on. If you don't want to answer the question it's fine, I'll know where we are at.

You don't think we have a moral obligation in taking refugees from Libya, or Iraq or Afghanistan. Two of which we invaded with ground forces and the other we bomb the country to rubble. Leaving the countries in devastation without rule of law and millions in starvation as a result of our acts. There's no right or wrong answer but if that is your moral standard then that's your moral standard.
Original post by HItchslapped
Actually if you want to be serious the west actually supported and allowed the Taliban to exist in Afghanistan.

Besides I am interested to know how solving the issue of the Taliban was to bomb and invade the country killing hundreds of thousands of people as a result of the invasion and leaving the country devastated, millions in starvation. Now the Taliban and suicide bombing is rife and growing in popularity. Meanwhile Afghanistan is now the third largest source of refugees in the Middle east.

So far from being sarcastic.... I agree to your qualification Oh god what big bad nasty people we are.

If our government and the US wanted to stop the Taliban then they should of supported internal democratic forces since the Taliban was no popular at the time instead of bombing and invading the country.

Britain killed hundreds of thousands of Afghans?
Original post by billydisco
Britain killed hundreds of thousands of Afghans?


The number of civilians who died as a result of the war is in the hundreds of thousands.

http://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians
Original post by HItchslapped
Two of which we invaded with ground forces and the other we bomb the country to rubble. Leaving the countries in devastation without rule of law and millions in starvation as a result of our acts. There's no right or wrong answer but if that is your moral standard then that's your moral standard.

We? I never did such a thing, and I'll assume you didn't either. And yet it's ordinary folk, not the politicians, who have to live among the refugees.
Original post by HItchslapped
We have a higher GDP. But that's besides the point. Comparatively speaking the number of refugees we are wiling to accept compared to the number Germany has and will accept makes any argument regarding population and land mass completely obsolete. I am not arguing we should take in the same numbers that Germany has done however we should take in our fair share, in particular the refugees we created, which our government has flat out rejected

It's certainly not fair enough that Lebanon which is around the size of Wales has, according to the UNHCR taken in nearly 2 million refugees.


Germany are not taking in 160,000,000 are they?? Thats the number of people they would need to match our population density...
We also have a considerably higher birthrate than Germany 12.2 / 1000 to 8.4 / 1000

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