The Student Room Group

Drug Goes From $13.50 a Tablet to $750, Overnight

Scroll to see replies

You can't set up a system that allows companies to do this and then blame the executives. If there's a problem, it's the IP laws.

This guy has to make the best possible profit for his shareholders. He is not allowed to be generous at their expense. If he can do something that is in the financial interests of the company, he has to do it.
Original post by scrotgrot
If I had AIDS I wouldn't want my treatment to be dependent on the charity of some random man who I have never even met. I want the price of drugs to be uninflated and for it all to be run in the public interest by democratically elected governments.

"The left" do not believe in charity and with good reason.


That's your own pride getting in the way, and no one can cure that.

The reality is that it's not overinflated at all. Have you taken a look at how much medicines for Hep C and cancer cost? Solvaldi springs to mind. It's representative of the spiralling costs that result from the massive increase in regulation and the unwillingness of government to subsidize either R&D or medication directly.

Government won't touch this because it's still as toxic as it was 70 years ago, has around 5000 a year using it, and all it takes is one mishap to invite multi million dollar lawsuits.

Yes, no one works for free in this world sadly.
Original post by TimmonaPortella
You can't set up a system that allows companies to do this and then blame the executives. If there's a problem, it's the IP laws.

This guy has to make the best possible profit for his shareholders. He is not allowed to be generous at their expense. If he can do something that is in the financial interests of the company, he has to do it.


He owns no patents, just the brand and the FDA licence.

Any pharma company can come out with the same drug under a different name, but let's face it, no one wants to produce a drug that has roughly 5000 users a year and not be guaranteed complete market share. Regulatory fees and FDA fees would easily cost twice the revenue than thay would make.
Original post by Fullofsurprises


Ah well. It all kind of makes sense to libertarians I suppose.


I think you'll find that a lot of libertarians are sceptical about the sort of IP laws that make this kind of thing possible.

Of course the argument on the pharma side would be that without the promise of being able to market their product without the threat of competition for a while there would be no incentive for them to put in the R&D investment to develop new drugs. Whether or not you accept that argument, that too is a matter of 'basic human survival'.
Original post by Fango_Jett
He owns no patents, just the brand and the FDA licence.

Any pharma company can come out with the same drug under a different name, but let's face it, no one wants to produce a drug that has roughly 5000 users a year and not be guaranteed complete market share. Regulatory fees and FDA fees would easily cost twice the revenue than thay would make.


Really? That's interesting.

In that case it sounds to me like the regulatory and FDA fees are the problem to be honest.

In any event it's systemic and not just that this particular executive is a nasty man.
Original post by TimmonaPortella
Really? That's interesting.
In that case it sounds to me like the regulatory and FDA fees are the problem to be honest.
In any event it's systemic and not just that this particular executive is a nasty man.


Yep. Even for a 70 year old drug with a fairly good track record (albeit quite toxic), it would still take years for anyone else to get an FDA licence along with millions in costs to get it up and running. Put that together with a minute userbase, you can see why either A) no one would make it or B) they would charge hundreds per pill to recoup the costs and turn a profit. Government won't touch it.

I don't like his decision either, but it's an unfortunate consequence of the way increasingly prohibitive and anti-pharma regulations. Democrats love to rail on about how bad pharma is, but fail to admit that they are the for the most part the ones leading the charge for increasing regulation and regulatory fees, forcing pharmaceuticals to either work at a loss (not going to happen) or increase prices accordingly.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by TimmonaPortella
I think you'll find that a lot of libertarians are sceptical about the sort of IP laws that make this kind of thing possible.

Of course the argument on the pharma side would be that without the promise of being able to market their product without the threat of competition for a while there would be no incentive for them to put in the R&D investment to develop new drugs. Whether or not you accept that argument, that too is a matter of 'basic human survival'.


Ideally, Government would help cover the costs of R&D in the form of grants or tax breaks, but this is often not the case. They are more than happy to keep making millions of weapons that the Pentagon tells them every year they can't use or store, only in an effort to stop the Defence jobs from going away in their home constituencies.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Fango_Jett

I don't like his decision either, but it's an unfortunate consequence of the way increasingly prohibitive and anti-pharma regulations. Democrats love to rail on about how bad pharma is, but fail to admit that they are the for the most part the ones leading the charge for increasing regulation and regulatory fees, forcing pharmaceuticals to either work at a loss (not going to happen) or increase prices accordingly.


It does strike me as pretty stupid to set up a bunch of barriers to entry and then complain, when a company hides behind them to make a bigger profit, that 'unfettered capitalism' is exploiting people.

I guess like most other problems caused by regulation this one should be solved by more regulation, and, in the meantime, just flinging a load of bile at some individual executive :dontknow:
Reply 68
Original post by Fango_Jett
People were not getting it beforehand, that's the point. It's such a rarely used drug and generates almost no profits at all that the previous owners were barely making it. This is the first time this drug is even getting the slightest bit of attention from the industry.

This guy is literally making it more available by asking those with insurance and wealthy people to pay a little more so that he can pour money into research and hopefully develop a generic version, while at the same time giving away his drug to low income, uninsured people.


Not to mention that the old and young will get it on Medicaid and Medicare, and a lot of low-income families on Obamacare. And that's for free. People paying (who don't have insurance that will pay out) still pay considerably less for this drug than for other drugs for similar afflictions.
Original post by jape
Not to mention that the old and young will get it on Medicaid and Medicare, and a lot of low-income families on Obamacare. And that's for free. People paying (who don't have insurance that will pay out) still pay considerably less for this drug than for other drugs for similar afflictions.


But of course it's easier to simply sling mud as though he were jacking up the price of a coconut on a street stall, and listen to sensationalist headlines without thinking. :colonhash:

I don't like the fact that the price is going up so much, but it's a sad by product of the USA's increasing regulation that forces companies to either work at a loss or jack up their prices to cover. The FDA has become the bane of the welfare of the public.

Sooner or later, if the US doesn't stop to try to control the problems of unfettered regulation with more regulation, Pharma companies will just stop spending much on R&D.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Fango_Jett
That's the point. There are roughly 5000 users of the drug (nothing by pharma standards), and the previous owners were just giving them away for next to nothing because their losses were negligible (and would count as a loss they could put towards their net incomes to qualify for more corporate tax breaks) and produced them from time to time.

The old owners saw it as a non core asset, and stopped production whenever it suited them.

Shkreli doesn't own a patent for the drug (its like 70 years old). He just own the brand and the FDA licence.

Anyone pharma company could have come up with a competitor, but they don't because there's no money to be made.


Sorry Fango, you put forward good arguments and i'm aware of how much R&D costs for pharma and the limited demand pool but this drug has had no future potential, otherwise it would have been researched further.

This guy has no Pharma credentials, he's there to make money. No healthcare supply company will buy it in for that price and if they do, a company will pop up and undercut him as the drug will suddenly become profitable. It's listed as an essential medicine but it also has v high resistance, so it's not even that good.

He won't make money from it because no one will buy it at $750 a pill, they will seek alternatives so I don't see where he's going with it. As far as I can see, he seems to be shooting himself in the foot?

This is why patents exist anyway, to allow development costs to recoup over X years of exclusivity before it comes off-patent. It's already off patent, but demand is so low and will stay low. He doesn't have a monopoly and low demand coupled with high price doesn't get you very far in business.
Original post by TimmonaPortella
I think you'll find that a lot of libertarians are sceptical about the sort of IP laws that make this kind of thing possible.

Of course the argument on the pharma side would be that without the promise of being able to market their product without the threat of competition for a while there would be no incentive for them to put in the R&D investment to develop new drugs. Whether or not you accept that argument, that too is a matter of 'basic human survival'.


On the second point, I was referring to the need for regulation of prices in sectors where products or services are critical to human health. There are regulations like that for drugs, in this country and elsewhere, including the US, but they are mainly about what the state can buy in subsidised programmes. Trading in drug IP purely as a means of profiteering when those drugs are vital appears to be perfectly legal and outside the regulatory framework (hence my snide remark about libertarians), which is wrong. Yes, there probably does need to be a fundamental global review of how IP works for corporate interests, but it would probably be better if a lot of drug innovation were done by publicly funded labs and made open source.
Original post by Pegasus2
Sorry Fango, you put forward good arguments and i'm aware of how much R&D costs for pharma and the limited demand pool but this drug has had no future potential, otherwise it would have been researched further.

This guy has no Pharma credentials, he's there to make money. No healthcare supply company will buy it in for that price and if they do, a company will pop up and undercut him as the drug will suddenly become profitable. It's listed as an essential medicine but it also has v high resistance, so it's not even that good.

He won't make money from it because no one will buy it at $750 a pill, they will seek alternatives so I don't see where he's going with it. As far as I can see, he seems to be shooting himself in the foot?

This is why patents exist anyway, to allow development costs to recoup over X years of exclusivity before it comes off-patent. It's already off patent, but demand is so low and will stay low. He doesn't have a monopoly and low demand coupled with high price doesn't get you very far in business.



He is going to make money off of it. I don't see why he wouldn't. Most of it would just come off of insurance. At, 750 a pill, 100 for treatment, and around the same 5000 users, his net sales will cap out at $375m, which is still quite modest by pharma standards.

It's not really shooting himself in the foot. Many companies have done the same thing quite successfully. I don't think you seem to realize that 750 a pop for 1000 tablets is not a lot. He's correct when he says that it's still under priced. Even in the unlikely scenario that all 375M gets paid by insurance, when distributed into into the total pool paid for by insurers, it works out to minimal cost when distributed.

Quick Reply

Latest

Trending

Trending