are our ideas on sexual relationships outdated?
given that our views of sex have changed from its primary function (reproduction) to its secondary function (pleasure ), should our views change to reflect that?
lets dress the first part first. when sex is mentioned the first thing you think about is not "ooh,the act in which genes are passed on through an offspring" it is more likely "ooh, the act two adults perform for fun". with a world where phrases such as accidental/ unwanted pregnancies (excluding rape) are used doesn't that mean that we focus more on the pleasure side of sex rather than its primary function?
okay now the second part. if it is all for pleasure shouldn't any two adults be able to engage in it? the key word here being any. for example step siblings or siblings for that matter...now before you have sex with your brother/ sister and say "but spider said it was okay" please don't ..this is all hypothetical. i hear what you are saying "what if they get pregnant or an STI? " to that i say what if they are safe? "well its evolution. it is there to stop mutations from relative reproduction". to this i say haven't we learned to over come reproduction with modern medicine? can we over come the instinct of disgust?
please note i chose people of equal emotional maturity to avoid the response of pruning say in the case of mother/ father and offspring.
another out dated concept i was thinking about is jealousy. now both of these are safety features of evolution. but now that we are wiser haven't we out grown these feature. is it time to take the the training wheels off?
lets dress the first part first. when sex is mentioned the first thing you think about is not "ooh,the act in which genes are passed on through an offspring" it is more likely "ooh, the act two adults perform for fun". with a world where phrases such as accidental/ unwanted pregnancies (excluding rape) are used doesn't that mean that we focus more on the pleasure side of sex rather than its primary function?
okay now the second part. if it is all for pleasure shouldn't any two adults be able to engage in it? the key word here being any. for example step siblings or siblings for that matter...now before you have sex with your brother/ sister and say "but spider said it was okay" please don't ..this is all hypothetical. i hear what you are saying "what if they get pregnant or an STI? " to that i say what if they are safe? "well its evolution. it is there to stop mutations from relative reproduction". to this i say haven't we learned to over come reproduction with modern medicine? can we over come the instinct of disgust?
please note i chose people of equal emotional maturity to avoid the response of pruning say in the case of mother/ father and offspring.
another out dated concept i was thinking about is jealousy. now both of these are safety features of evolution. but now that we are wiser haven't we out grown these feature. is it time to take the the training wheels off?
Original post by Silver_Spider23
okay now the second part. if it is all for pleasure shouldn't any two adults be able to engage in it? the key word here being any. for example step siblings or siblings for that matter...now before you have sex with your brother/ sister and say "but spider said it was okay" please don't ..this is all hypothetical. i hear what you are saying "what if they get pregnant or an STI? " to that i say what if they are safe? "well its evolution. it is there to stop mutations from relative reproduction". to this i say haven't we learned to over come reproduction with modern medicine? can we over come the instinct of disgust?
okay now the second part. if it is all for pleasure shouldn't any two adults be able to engage in it? the key word here being any. for example step siblings or siblings for that matter...now before you have sex with your brother/ sister and say "but spider said it was okay" please don't ..this is all hypothetical. i hear what you are saying "what if they get pregnant or an STI? " to that i say what if they are safe? "well its evolution. it is there to stop mutations from relative reproduction". to this i say haven't we learned to over come reproduction with modern medicine? can we over come the instinct of disgust?
The thing is, this is simply not an issue. People don't want to have sex with their siblings or parents. It just simply doesn't happen. How many people do you know who are in long term elationships with their siblings of parents? Yeah, none, and it isn't because it is socially unacceptable, it is because people don't do this. Even in third world hellholes where children get married off to adults, it's never between child and parent or brother and sister. Really the only instances where incest actually occurs are child abuse cases and rape of family members.
You had a point when you said 'this is all hypothetical', because it really is. Nobody above the age of 6 wants to marry their mommy.
Original post by driftawaay
The thing is, this is simply not an issue. People don't want to have sex with their siblings or parents. It just simply doesn't happen. How many people do you know who are in long term elationships with their siblings of parents? Yeah, none, and it isn't because it is socially unacceptable, it is because people don't do this. Even in third world hellholes where children get married off to adults, it's never between child and parent or brother and sister. Really the only instances where incest actually occurs are child abuse cases and rape of family members.
You had a point when you said 'this is all hypothetical', because it really is. Nobody above the age of 6 wants to marry their mommy.
You had a point when you said 'this is all hypothetical', because it really is. Nobody above the age of 6 wants to marry their mommy.
you missed a couple of points of the question:
1) i know people don't want to , the question is why not?
2) nowhere in my question did i say marry anyone intact humans have made it a point to avoid marriage and reproduction , as i mentioned.
Original post by Silver_Spider23
you missed a couple of points of the question:
1) i know people don't want to , the question is why not?
2) nowhere in my question did i say marry anyone intact humans have made it a point to avoid marriage and reproduction , as i mentioned.
1) i know people don't want to , the question is why not?
2) nowhere in my question did i say marry anyone intact humans have made it a point to avoid marriage and reproduction , as i mentioned.
1, because nature clearly intended mother and child o love each other as mother and child, not lovers....
2, then replace the 'marry' with 'relationship', no need to be nitpicky...
Original post by Silver_Spider23
given that our views of sex have changed from its primary function (reproduction) to its secondary function (pleasure ), should our views change to reflect that?
lets dress the first part first. when sex is mentioned the first thing you think about is not "ooh,the act in which genes are passed on through an offspring" it is more likely "ooh, the act two adults perform for fun". with a world where phrases such as accidental/ unwanted pregnancies (excluding rape) are used doesn't that mean that we focus more on the pleasure side of sex rather than its primary function?
okay now the second part. if it is all for pleasure shouldn't any two adults be able to engage in it? the key word here being any. for example step siblings or siblings for that matter...now before you have sex with your brother/ sister and say "but spider said it was okay" please don't ..this is all hypothetical. i hear what you are saying "what if they get pregnant or an STI? " to that i say what if they are safe? "well its evolution. it is there to stop mutations from relative reproduction". to this i say haven't we learned to over come reproduction with modern medicine? can we over come the instinct of disgust?
please note i chose people of equal emotional maturity to avoid the response of pruning say in the case of mother/ father and offspring.
another out dated concept i was thinking about is jealousy. now both of these are safety features of evolution. but now that we are wiser haven't we out grown these feature. is it time to take the the training wheels off?
lets dress the first part first. when sex is mentioned the first thing you think about is not "ooh,the act in which genes are passed on through an offspring" it is more likely "ooh, the act two adults perform for fun". with a world where phrases such as accidental/ unwanted pregnancies (excluding rape) are used doesn't that mean that we focus more on the pleasure side of sex rather than its primary function?
okay now the second part. if it is all for pleasure shouldn't any two adults be able to engage in it? the key word here being any. for example step siblings or siblings for that matter...now before you have sex with your brother/ sister and say "but spider said it was okay" please don't ..this is all hypothetical. i hear what you are saying "what if they get pregnant or an STI? " to that i say what if they are safe? "well its evolution. it is there to stop mutations from relative reproduction". to this i say haven't we learned to over come reproduction with modern medicine? can we over come the instinct of disgust?
please note i chose people of equal emotional maturity to avoid the response of pruning say in the case of mother/ father and offspring.
another out dated concept i was thinking about is jealousy. now both of these are safety features of evolution. but now that we are wiser haven't we out grown these feature. is it time to take the the training wheels off?
A good and controversial topic.
Can we really say that there's anything intrinsically wrong with incestuous relationships such as relationships between siblings?
As Peter Singer summarises: the psychologist Jonathan Haidt told experimental subjects about Julie and Mark, adult siblings who take a holiday together and decide to have sex, just to see what it would be like. In the story, Julie is already on the Pill, but Mark uses a condom, just to be safe. They both enjoy the experience, but decide not to do it again. It remains a secret that brings them even closer.
Haidt then asked his subjects whether it was okay for Julie and Mark to have sex. Most said that it was not, but when Haidt asked them why, they offered reasons that were already excluded by the story – for example, the dangers of inbreeding, or the risk that their relationship would suffer. Essentially, people don't appear to be able to give logical reasons as to why sexual relationships between siblings are wrong. Fallacious appeals to nature will abound, of course, but they're still fallacious.
Jealousy brings up another point: should polyamory be more accepted than it currently is? I know of a number of people who engage in polyamorous relationships, but it's still frowned upon by a significant proportion of the population, even in liberal Western societies. Again, people can't seem to bring up good objections to such relationships when the objections have already been dealt with in the scenarios, both hypothetical and real.
(edited 8 years ago)
Free love 
Original post by driftawaay
The thing is, this is simply not an issue. People don't want to have sex with their siblings or parents. It just simply doesn't happen. How many people do you know who are in long term elationships with their siblings of parents? Yeah, none, and it isn't because it is socially unacceptable, it is because people don't do this. Even in third world hellholes where children get married off to adults, it's never between child and parent or brother and sister. Really the only instances where incest actually occurs are child abuse cases and rape of family members.
You had a point when you said 'this is all hypothetical', because it really is. Nobody above the age of 6 wants to marry their mommy.
You had a point when you said 'this is all hypothetical', because it really is. Nobody above the age of 6 wants to marry their mommy.
Game of thrones says otherwise
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Game of thrones says otherwise
Literature clearly always reflects the actions of the world we live in,
Original post by Aria Enoshima
Literature clearly always reflects the actions of the world we live in,
I know. That's why I said it.
Incestuous relationships and inbreeding are very much a thing in aristocratic history. Keep the blood pure and all that.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
I know. That's why I said it.
Lol, lemme throw up some nice incest animu's then.
In all honestly, I have actualy thought on things like this. I mean, we live in a world when everything is becoming accepted and going against all of the preconceptions is 'cool'. Wouldn't this kind of development be that much of a leap (not to say all things are as seemingly wrong as incestual relationships)?
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
I know. That's why I said it.
Incestuous relationships and inbreeding are very much a thing in aristocratic history. Keep the blood pure and all that.
Incestuous relationships and inbreeding are very much a thing in aristocratic history. Keep the blood pure and all that.
Well, of course we all know the aristocracy is inbred, but not in a brother marries sister or mom marries son kinda way...
Original post by driftawaay
Well, of course we all know the aristocracy is inbred, but not in a brother marries sister or mom marries son kinda way...
I don't actually know because I am pretty ignorant when it comes to history. But I am willing to bet you a tenner Cercie and Jamie are based on real people. The author pretty much ripped out a load of stuff from history and stuck it in his fantasy world.
Original post by Silver_Spider23
given that our views of sex have changed from its primary function (reproduction) to its secondary function (pleasure ), should our views change to reflect that?
I know someone who could do with some of that but then... don't we all?
Sex is cool but love-making is the ultimate high.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by driftawaay
Well, of course we all know the aristocracy is inbred, but not in a brother marries sister or mom marries son kinda way...
Marrying sisters to brothers in aristocracy is ridiculously common in aristocracy. Cultures all throughout the world practiced this.
There is a whole believe in the Zoroastrian faith about the holiness of incestuous marriages.
Original post by Silver_Spider23
you missed a couple of points of the question:
1) i know people don't want to , the question is why not?
1) i know people don't want to , the question is why not?
It's an innate part of normal humans. Genes have much more impact on our behaviour then we give them credit for. The part of our code that leads us to dislike this behaviour is still around because those without those genes (or possess genes that actually caused an attraction to family members) have likely almost completely disappeared due to them producing offspring with genetic disorders, meaning they aren't likely to pass on the gene.
I think that it is more benefical for us as species to not have sex with relatives, for simple reason of that siblings or even cousins may both carry same recessive disease gene, and they then may have a offspring that the gene is expressed on. If gene is dominant, even still two people with disease X (it would be expressed on them) have 75% chnage to get sick offspring, albeit if its expressed on them they should have enough common sense to not reproduce anyway.
... My reply might be a bit off point, since kids werent the point, but what if they'd start wanting one later? Not saying all people would, but for biological reasons its more benefical for us, as species if we promote genetic diversity and not inbreeding. I don't understand having sex for fun anyway, I never did (I suppose I'm asexual) so maybe I'm not best person to answer anyway,
... My reply might be a bit off point, since kids werent the point, but what if they'd start wanting one later? Not saying all people would, but for biological reasons its more benefical for us, as species if we promote genetic diversity and not inbreeding. I don't understand having sex for fun anyway, I never did (I suppose I'm asexual) so maybe I'm not best person to answer anyway,
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