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Are you a Feminist?

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Reply 40
As most of TSR know I am a meninist :wink:
Original post by Evening
I wouldn't be supportive of a lynch mob who'd demonise me, beat me down until I'm forced to kill myself:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11905639/Teenager-falsely-accused-of-rape-commits-suicide.html

If someone accuses me of rape, my initial reaction isn't going to be sympathetic, it's going to be defensive. If I know I'm innocent, how do I even know that they're telling the truth that someone else raped them?


No, I don't mean if you were accused, I mean the public generally. There should be support for the victim - especially given that false rape accusations are incredibly rare, but I'd also support anonymity of the accused until (if) proven guilty.
Original post by BobbyFlay
Just so I don't get labeled a misogynist *insert other insult here* I have advocated for and supported women's rights through multiple petitions and donations.

Given that the general definition is the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes, doesn't this suggest that men are already equal in society?
There are multiple laws in most western countries that literally systematically disadvantages men, such as the case with custody laws or sentencing. As far as I can tell these tend to be dismissed by the movement - refer to anything from the Guardian or Jessica Valenti. Yet feminism is considered to be a movement for equality. If feminism was defined as just the advocacy of women's rights, such behavior would make sense, but it is paraded under the banner of equality.
Also there's the argument that the definition does not matter. That the actions of the movement as a whole is what is important. In which case 3rd wave feminism seems to be using biased and flawed statistics to push their narratives, even if that narrative is right it has to be proven before action is taken. Such as patriarchy or the wage gap, normally I would cite studies for this but I've found a very well structured reddit post that compiles all these citations and gives a brief description for it too, this is from /r/mensrights, but this does not mean that the argument being presented is wrong or invalid, and no I do not consider myself to be an MRA.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2j2kgy/feminist_myths_theories_debunked/

Some more interesting links:
CDC study showing that more men are victims of domestic abuse-
http://www.saveservices.org/2012/02/cdc-study-more-men-than-women-victims-of-partner-abuse/

Pay Gap debunked from The Atlantic -
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/05/the-biggest-myth-about-the-gender-wage-gap/276367/


ahah some of the stuff Jessica Valenti comes out with makes a lot of sense, then she says something completely bat**** and it just loses its good effect haha

It depends who you talk to and how they'd interpret it imo - the way I and I know a lot of other feminists see it is as a movement to fight for the rights of both (/all, whatever) genders, especially with regards to mental health etc. Then there's stuff that would benefit both genders, such as arguing for maternity leave to be changed to parental leave. I'd love it if the UK adopted a system like Germany's, where new parents are given 2 years (I believe) time to split between themselves however they like, giving a lot more freedom for if the man wants to do the lion's share of childcare and the woman wants to work/the woman has a higher salary than her partner so it makes more sense for her to work/makes things a lot easier potentially for LGBT couples.

Yeah, I said that to someone else - imo as a social movement it's a lot more complicated and nuanced than a dictionary definition.
Reply 43
Original post by abruiseonthesky
ahah some of the stuff Jessica Valenti comes out with makes a lot of sense, then she says something completely bat**** and it just loses its good effect haha

It depends who you talk to and how they'd interpret it imo - the way I and I know a lot of other feminists see it is as a movement to fight for the rights of both (/all, whatever) genders, especially with regards to mental health etc. Then there's stuff that would benefit both genders, such as arguing for maternity leave to be changed to parental leave. I'd love it if the UK adopted a system like Germany's, where new parents are given 2 years (I believe) time to split between themselves however they like, giving a lot more freedom for if the man wants to do the lion's share of childcare and the woman wants to work/the woman has a higher salary than her partner so it makes more sense for her to work/makes things a lot easier potentially for LGBT couples.

Yeah, I said that to someone else - imo as a social movement it's a lot more complicated and nuanced than a dictionary definition.

Yep, I agree.
The thing is though, I'd much rather support an institution or movement that I know is very coherent in it's principles and actions that one that isn't (feminism).
For example, I support Human rights/secular humanism, so I donate and sign petitions from Amnesty international. Amnesty has done a lot, literally a lot, for human rights - including LGBT rights etc.
Original post by Evening
"I believe in equality, but I like having men buy me dinner, being let me first on a bus, getting to slap guys without repercussions, win the majority of custody battles, get sympathy over tweeting something like 'Life's so hard' whilst a guy kills himself every 2 seconds, get believed in rape accusation cases even if the man is innocent and have a place to go when I'm a vicim of domestic abuse because men have no male shelters."


:smile:


1. I ask to split the bill and only give up if it's getting to the point where it's causing a scene
2. Wtf no you queue, it's only polite
3. Violence is always wrong, whether it's male on woman, woman on man, man on man or woman on woman
4. True but that doesn't mean I agree with it - custody should go to the parent who is more able or likely to provide the care the child(ren) need(s)
5. Everyone tweets **** like that at some point - yes, there is a hell of a lot that needs to be done re: men's mental health, but/and a lot needs to be done in mental health generally - as someone whose GP told them almost 4 years ago that they'd 'get over it' and was recently diagnosed with depression, I can tell you there's a lot that needs to be done.
6. See other comment.
7. There definitely should be male shelters - we can start by demanding the government stop slashing funding to safe houses etc., there are barely any left full stop.

Any other points you'd like to make? You shouldn't tar us all with the same brush. It's just as bad as when some women say all men are the same, which I'm pretty sure you - quite rightly - get pissed over.
Original post by BobbyFlay
Yep, I agree.
The thing is though, I'd much rather support an institution or movement that I know is very coherent in it's principles and actions that one that isn't (feminism).
For example, I support Human rights/secular humanism, so I donate and sign petitions from Amnesty international. Amnesty has done a lot, literally a lot, for human rights - including LGBT rights etc.


Fair enough :smile: that's the thing, with massive things like this, unless it's organised in some way, e.g. a charity like Amnesty, it's always going to have different forms and factions and offshoots. Really odd if you think about it.

Plus, everyone has different priorities in life/views on what the best way to achieve something is. Variety's the spice of life and all that :tongue:
Original post by william walker
Well the only way sexist doesn't exist is if the government creates and enforces laws against it. So increasing the power of the government and creating tyranny.


No, the only way sexism doesn't increase is if people stop gripping onto bs like 'women are worse at science', 'men should go out and earn and women should be the primary child carers'. And that's only touching on Western issues, look at places like Saudi where women aren't allowed to drive - that's a pretty tyrannous government. What's your explanation for that, and for the widespread incidence of FGM?
The general problem lays in misogyny and not actual feminist principals. The difference is seperating and explaining your opinion I think.

Caitlin Moran writes/speaks very prominantly about it, if you're interested in stuff like that.
No, I'm not a feminist. I don't believe there should be equality between men and women. We all need to except both sexes are different. Men are more ruthless, generally stronger, and more suited to chasing the big bucks, whereas women are more emotion, more bitchy, and suited to being maternalistic.

By all means there should be equality in voting and paid the same for doing the same job but there shouldn't be the false modern equality in using quotas to force women into jobs, drama over sexism, free child care to dissuade women from looking after their children, and a stupid focus on getting women into work when women should be having children to keep the population going.
Original post by Evening
Probably. You enjoy an advantageous position where you can play the victim but hold onto other privileges whilst screaming 'MISOGYNY' at the first opportunity.


Okay...so because I'm a girl you think I think it's fine to hit a man, that they should pay everything, that I don't realise there are more homeless men than women (and everything else on your list)?

You're clearly delusional. I'm a feminist, that means equality of BOTH sexes. I care about men's rights as I do women rights. -

Yes misogyny exists, but I'm also just as aware that misandry exists.

You're an idiot if you don't realise I care for both genders
Original post by Madeline_H95
No, I'm not a feminist. I don't believe there should be equality between men and women. We all need to except both sexes are different. Men are more ruthless, generally stronger, and more suited to chasing the big bucks, whereas women are more emotion, more bitchy, and suited to being maternalistic.

By all means there should be equality in voting and paid the same for doing the same job but there shouldn't be the false modern equality in using quotas to force women into jobs, drama over sexism, free child care to dissuade women from looking after their children, and a stupid focus on getting women into work when women should be having children to keep the population going.


Whatever.

Women can chase 'bug bucks', men are generally physically stronger but that doesn't mean their aren't female exceptions. Not all women are emotional, I think it's just horrendous to tar us all with same brush, aren't men emotional too? why should they not cry? oh wait that isn't "masculine" is it. I have seen bitchy men as well as women.I have seen great stay at home fathers bringing up their children, why should that role only be applied to women?

Women aren't baby making machines. It's our bodies, we have the choice to have children. When I become a mother I certainly won't be a stay at home mother (fair enough if women want to do so) but I think I would be in the pit of deep sadness just staying at home all day taking care of a child.

And sexism still exists, there is no drama about it.

Also quotas aren't just for women, there are quotas for ethnic minorities too, and good we need more diversity.
Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes
Whatever.

Women can chase 'bug bucks', men are generally physically stronger but that doesn't mean their aren't female exceptions. Not all women are emotional, I think it's just horrendous to tar us all with same brush, aren't men emotional too? why should they not cry? oh wait that isn't "masculine" is it. I have seen bitchy men as well as women.I have seen great stay at home fathers bringing up their children, why should that role only be applied to women?

Women aren't baby making machines. It's our bodies, we have the choice to have children. When I become a mother I certainly won't be a stay at home mother (fair enough if women want to do so) but I think I would be in the pit of deep sadness just staying at home all day taking care of a child.

And sexism still exists, there is no drama about it.

Also quotas aren't just for women, there are quotas for ethnic minorities too, and good we need more diversity.


Generally speaking. There are always going to be the odd exception. Biologically men have more muscle mass and muscles in men are, pound for pound, 5-10% STRONGER than muscle in women. FACT! This is why men are physically stronger. It is science, feminists like to dismiss science though for their ideology.

When men start having equal say on abortions as women and equal rights when it comes to looking after the children following break ups then men can start to have a stronger roll. It is hypocritical for a women to want to have special rights when it comes to only them being allowed to choose to have abortions and being the default parents of the child after divorce but perfectly happy to want the father to babysit in equal amounts. Have equality or have no equality. I personally prefer the status-quo where I would be babysitting and my husband working.

Quotas are ridiculous. Things should be based on talent or elitism and some ridiculous false political correctness that belongs in the bin.
Original post by abruiseonthesky
No, the only way sexism doesn't increase is if people stop gripping onto bs like 'women are worse at science', 'men should go out and earn and women should be the primary child carers'. And that's only touching on Western issues, look at places like Saudi where women aren't allowed to drive - that's a pretty tyrannous government. What's your explanation for that, and for the widespread incidence of FGM?


Why are you talking to me about Saudi Arabia when I am British and a Loyal Protestant. No the only way people stop thinking or doing those things is if the government passes and enforces laws against it.
Original post by Madeline_H95
Generally speaking. There are always going to be the odd exception. Biologically men have more muscle mass and muscles in men are, pound for pound, 5-10% STRONGER than muscle in women. FACT! This is why men are physically stronger. It is science, feminists like to dismiss science though for their ideology.

When men start having equal say on abortions as women and equal rights when it comes to looking after the children following break ups then men can start to have a stronger roll. It is hypocritical for a women to want to have special rights when it comes to only them being allowed to choose to have abortions and being the default parents of the child after divorce but perfectly happy to want the father to babysit in equal amounts. Have equality or have no equality. I personally prefer the status-quo where I would be babysitting and my husband working.

Quotas are ridiculous. Things should be based on talent or elitism and some ridiculous false political correctness that belongs in the bin.


Why have you just REPEATED what I said? I already said men are generally physically stronger. smh :colonhash:

Abortions happen in the WOMANS body. So no, men should not have a equal say on abortions, how would that even work. Equally It's like saying my husband wants a vasectomy, but I want children, it's the womans place to say what a man should do with his sperm.

Custody battles are different, blame out justice system NOT feminism but it's all a generalisation and just statistics, there are times when children are not safe with their fathers and equally their are times they aren't safe with their mothers.

Well that's what you prefer, I would hate it. I want to work and I want to be a mum, just like the father of my child can do both roles.
I refuse to label myself as feminist or non-feminist until the lines as to what truly constitutes feminism are no longer blurred.

Do I support equal rights for men and women, doing away with gender roles and so on? Absolutely.

Do I believe women should be given more rights than men to balance out the historical oppression of women, making the modern man a second class citizen in the process? Absolutely not, why would I support such backward thinking??? Unfortunately, this is what feminism is all about to many whether or not they like to admit it, which causes me to refrain from labeling myself a feminist.
Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes
Well that's what you prefer, I would hate it. I want to work and I want to be a mum, just like the father of my child can do both roles.


The problem with feminists is they want children for status symbols. It's impossible to be a feminist and properly love and parent a child. A child deserves to be raised by its parents and not carted between different babysitters because both parents are too busy working. It is practical to have one parents who doesn't work to take care of the household. It is ideal for women to be this parent.

Ok but with abortion if the women chooses to not have an abortion when the father wants one the woman should receive no child payments after from the man as that is unfair. She can look after her own child, she's the one who wanted it. Feminists give us women a bad name.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes
Why have you just REPEATED what I said? I already said men are generally physically stronger. smh :colonhash:

Abortions happen in the WOMANS body. So no, men should not have a equal say on abortions, how would that even work. Equally It's like saying my husband wants a vasectomy, but I want children, it's the womans place to say what a man should do with his sperm.

Custody battles are different, blame out justice system NOT feminism but it's all a generalisation and just statistics, there are times when children are not safe with their fathers and equally their are times they aren't safe with their mothers.

Well that's what you prefer, I would hate it. I want to work and I want to be a mum, just like the father of my child can do both roles.


And why not?

If he is financially incapable of supporting and nourishing a new born baby, then should he not have a say, considering it's his child as well, so his hear say should count as much as the mothers.
While I do support the broad ideology of feminism, I think it's kind of outdated in today's day and age. Egalitarianism is far more of an appropriate term for gender equality movements now.

Sure you can throw dictionary definitions at me. Sure you can call me an attention seeker with internalised misogyny. But the truth is, FEMINISM in itself thrives to bring women up to the level of men, but in the world we live in now, women are held above men in as many aspects as they are held below. It's a proven fact. Third wave feminism is not what we need today.

Also, frankly, it is movements like these that give rise to all these quotas and special consideration for women in STEM fields. I'd rather get a scholarship for engineering because I'm a good student rather than because I have a vagina, thank you very much.
Original post by Madeline_H95
The problem with feminists is they want children for status symbols. It's impossible to be a feminist and properly love and parent a child. A child deserves to be raised by its parents and not carted between different babysitters because both parents are too busy working. It is practical to have one parents who doesn't work to take care of the household. It is ideal for women to be this parent.

Ok but with abortion if the women chooses to not have an abortion when the father wants one the woman should receive no child payments after from the man as that is unfair. She can look after her own child, she's the one who wanted it. Feminists give us women a bad name.


I completely agree with the bit highlighted in bold. But what a man shouldn't have is an equal or a more dominant decision what a woman does with her body, it's her body and it is certainly her choice if she wants to grow a baby inside it.

So because a woman works she incapable of loving her child? It's pathetic that you actually think this. Yes a child deserves to be raised by it's "parents" that means 2 and that means that both mother and father have equal responsibility, it doesn't mean a woman needs to be at home day and night with the child/children.

Why is it ideal for a woman to fulfil this role? men can do it just as well.
Original post by Ya Dunno
And why not?

If he is financially incapable of supporting and nourishing a new born baby, then should he not have a say, considering it's his child as well, so his hear say should count as much as the mothers.


I already said why, it's because it's the woman body. That is why there isn't an equal say.

And I have already said I don't think there should be any need for a man to pay child support if he didn't want the baby. I have said it's unfair.

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