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There is no evidence for God

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Original post by TrueBruce
A chair doesn't necessarily need a creator- 'random' processes could easily create something comfy to sit on. However if the chair is made of wood, one should ask where the wood has come from. If the chair has nails one should ask where they came from. If there are no ways that the components could have come together without exterior influence, then there probably was a creator.

If there are no ways that the components could have come together without exterior influence, then there probably was a creator. If the chair has nails one should ask where they came from.
You said it better than me.
Original post by ABeingOnEarth
OK then, If you look into a microscope and you see an atom, would you say it has an intelligent creator created that atom? Or did it just come out of nowhere?


But atoms didn’t come from nothing, nor does science “say” this. All the matter and energy that particles are made from was already present in the singularity, whose origins are currently unknown.

Isn’t it you who believes that Allah created the universe from nothing?
Reply 1182
Original post by Ninja Squirrel
searching for some kind of purpose and creator.
Well, if you want to find god, you'll probably find him. There are plenty of people out there who will tell you what you want to hear.

I think those things are taken our of context or only applied during specific times such as war from my understanding. I don't understand why god (if it's all true) would sentence someone to death for conducting homosexual acts but then I'm not god so I cannot answer those questions.
If you have decided that you want to be a Muslim, you will obviously find some justification for all the unpleasant bits. As I said, there are plenty of people who will tell you what you want to hear.
You've already adopted the "Allah Knows Best" mantra when faced with inexplicable puzzles, so mashallah!
Original post by ABeingOnEarth
If you walk into a room and you see a ball floating and rotating, would you say it has an intelligent creator who placed it there? Or did it just come out of nowhere?


I have no way of knowing. You assume that the ball was placed or appeared there. Why can't it have always been there?
Original post by QE2
It was idiot who presented the study as evidence that atheists don't have higher IQs.

And in a subject like average national educational attainment, not much will change in 4 years.
However, if you claim that the current situation is significantly different, please present the evidence.


Im not sure if you read the other counter- arguments but its fine, i shall repeat again!! The article provided was more than 10 years ago and i'm sure you will agree a LOT has changed. From technology to access for education, lots has changed. In addition, i don't claim the current situation is different, im just saying we can not simply assume the case that was in 2003 is the same now. It may be or it may not but we can't just assume.
Reply 1185
Original post by TrueBruce
When did anyone say infinitely?
No one claimed anything other than that the article idiot posted showed that atheists have average higher IQs than religionists.
I even said that I don't consider IQ to be a good indicator of anything.

He's just massively butthurt because he posted a link that disproved his own argument!
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
It’s not a rule book. What we call the laws of nature are simply the physical manifestation of how particles and energy interact in many different ways.

It seems that your argument is basically thus: “all of this complexity must have a creator”. But then by the same token, God, who is the most complex being in existence, must also require a creator.


It is a rule book though if you think about it. Gravity doesn't cause the laws of gravity to manifest, rather the laws of gravity cause gravity to manifest.

If there is ultimately some set of laws that detail how the universe came into existence then the only explanation is that those laws existed before the universe which means they must have been created by a supernatural entity 🙄


Original post by QE2
Well, if you want to find god, you'll probably find him. There are plenty of people out there who will tell you what you want to hear.

If you have decided that you want to be a Muslim, you will obviously find some justification for all the unpleasant bits. As I said, there are plenty of people who will tell you what you want to hear.
You've already adopted the "Allah Knows Best" mantra when faced with inexplicable puzzles, so mashallah!


I'm not even a Muslim... I'm just learning about it and I'm not just accepting what anyone tells me. I'm contemplating it and doing my research and deciding if it's possible or not.
Original post by arizonaidiot
If there are no ways that the components could have come together without exterior influence, then there probably was a creator. If the chair has nails one should ask where they came from.
You said it better than me.


The thing is scientists do see how the earth formed and how life evolved so there is no need to resort to a creator yet.
Original post by arizonaidiot
Why does a chair need a creator?


This is a fallacious and disingenuous version of Paley’s Watchmaker argument.

We know chairs are created because 1) they don’t occur in nature and 2) we can observe them being made.

No one has ever created a universe or observed one being made and so you cannot assume that it has a creator.
Reply 1189
Original post by arizonaidiot
I know,I burst out laughing too.
How could you have. Because I never said that. or anything like it.

Look, I understand that you are upset and embarrassed because you posted a link that disproved your own argument (and yes, I genuinely did laugh when I read it), but carrying on like this only makes it worse.
Original post by Ninja Squirrel
It is a rule book though if you think about it. Gravity doesn't cause the laws of gravity to manifest, rather the laws of gravity cause gravity to manifest.

If there is ultimately some set of laws that detail how the universe came into existence then the only explanation is that those laws existed before the universe which means they must have been created by a supernatural entity 🙄




I'm not even a Muslim... I'm just learning about it and I'm not just accepting what anyone tells me. I'm contemplating it and doing my research and deciding if it's possible or not.


Gravity is just the physical manifestation of mass distorting space-time.

What?! You are jumping to ridiculous and unsupported assumptions. Explain why the laws of nature cannot have always existed in some form or other and why a supernatural creator is necessary?

And you still haven’t explained why the universe’s complexity needs a creator but God’s doesn’t.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
This is a fallacious and disingenuous version of Paley’s Watchmaker argument.

We know chairs are created because 1) they don’t occur in nature and 2) we can observe them being made.

No one has ever created a universe or observed one being made and so you cannot assume that it has a creator.


But obviously they would not be made without us.
I'll rephrase the question,how does a chair form itself?
Reply 1192
Original post by ABeingOnEarth
If you walk into a room and you see a ball floating and rotating, would you say it has an intelligent creator who placed it there? Or did it just come out of nowhere?
So you are claiming that because the universe exists, it must have a crerator?
Reply 1193
Original post by ABeingOnEarth
OK then, If you look into a microscope and you see an atom, would you say it has an intelligent creator created that atom? Or did it just come out of nowhere?
The answer is neither of those.
Have you never studied physics?
Original post by Plantagenet Crown

No one has ever created a universe or observed one being made and so you cannot assume that it has a creator.

I used to find this idea really hard to accept because everything I know and understand in the universe has a creator. Humans created the "supernatural" which is the only way most people can accept that certain things don't need creators. It's like tricking our brains in a way.

The limits of the human brain make it hard to be an atheist :smile:
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Gravity is just the physical manifestation of mass distorting space-time.

What?! You are jumping to ridiculous and unsupported assumptions. Explain why the laws of nature cannot have always existed in some form or other and why a supernatural creator is necessary?

And you still haven’t explained why the universe’s complexity needs a creator but God’s doesn’t.


Well because god is a conscious entity who is able to decide and make choices, inanimate matter, energy and the laws of nature cannot...

You're missing the point though, how does space-time know to distort in the first place? Because the laws tell it how to, without the laws nothing would happen and nothing would exist.

I think the universe needs a creator because the first mover cannot be inanimate and I don't believe the laws have always existed.
Reply 1198
Original post by lak11
Im not sure if you read the other counter- arguments but its fine, i shall repeat again!! The article provided was more than 10 years ago and i'm sure you will agree a LOT has changed. From technology to access for education, lots has changed. In addition, i don't claim the current situation is different, im just saying we can not simply assume the case that was in 2003 is the same now. It may be or it may not but we can't just assume.
At time t, the position was x.
At time t+10 the position may be different, it may not, but it does not change what the position was at time t.
Reply 1199
Original post by Ninja Squirrel
I'm not even a Muslim... I'm just learning about it and I'm not just accepting what anyone tells me. I'm contemplating it and doing my research and deciding if it's possible or not.
I didn't say you were, just that it looked like you want to be one. You certainly seem to be accepting the Islamic doctrine without question. You even said that even though you disagreed with executing homosexuals, you would accept it because Allah knows best, FFS!

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