Pupillage to international students

Hi there

So basically I need a some information and your point of view will be more than highly appreciated.

is there any chance a law chamber offers me pupillage?

Please note that I am an international student and my law degree will hopefully be from LSE..

Thank you..

Reply 1

Polemos

It's absolutely possible to secure a pupillage as an international student. I'm an international student (of Australian nationality) and I've bagged a (deferred) pupillage at one of the London commercial sets. I don't think my international status was of any relevance whatsoever. Hope this helps!

Reply 2

petite_chaperon_rose

OP

1

Oh this is indeed very good :wink:

Congratulations and thank you :smile:

Reply 3

Evil_Genius

Congratulations. However, I think your example, however laudible, is rather irrelevant as the main obstacle to acquring pupillage would be a linguistic one. On that point, you are on precisely the same footing as Englishmen and women. The OP, however, clearly is not.

Reply 4

petite_chaperon_rose

OP

1

Evil_Genius

Congratulations. However, I think your example, however laudible, is rather irrelevant as the main obstacle to acquring pupillage would be a linguistic one. On that point, you are on precisely the same footing as Englishmen and women. The OP, however, clearly is not.

And Why on earth do you question my linguistic abilities, SIR? Is it because I hail from a tiny island in the midst of The Indian Ocean?

Reply 5

Evil_Genius

"So basically I need a few information and point of view.

Yes, Then is there any chance I am offered pupillage? "

That would be why. I do not mean it as a criticism, though, as you have plenty of time to learn before it becomes a problem. It does seem that English is your island's official language, so perhaps you were just being careless.

Reply 6

petite_chaperon_rose

OP

1

you are simply among those mean and evil persons around :P :biggrin:

Reply 7

praveeta

someone can't spell laudable...

Reply 8

chalks

12

Original post by praveeta

someone can't spell laudable...

Someone's resurrected a thread which is nearly 4 years old...

Reply 9

lea_law

2

Has petite chaperon rose been able to find a pupillage in the uk being an International student? I find myself in this same predicament, fast forward 10 years from the time this thread was created.We are now nearing the end of 2017 and I will be applying for pupillage in 2018. I would really appreciate some insight, since I gathered that the chances of an International student obtaining a pupillage now is much much harder?!

Reply 10

Forum User

19

Original post by lea_law

Has petite chaperon rose been able to find a pupillage in the uk being an International student? I find myself in this same predicament, fast forward 10 years from the time this thread was created.We are now nearing the end of 2017 and I will be applying for pupillage in 2018. I would really appreciate some insight, since I gathered that the chances of an International student obtaining a pupillage now is much much harder?!

I know a number of pupils at the commercial bar from Aus / NZ / India. I don't know much about other areas of law but it wouldn't surprise me if there were rather fewer international pupils in areas where the pupillage award is not enough to satisfy whatever the visa requirements with respect to minimum income are.

(edited 6 years ago)

Original post by lea_law

Has petite chaperon rose been able to find a pupillage in the uk being an International student? I find myself in this same predicament, fast forward 10 years from the time this thread was created.We are now nearing the end of 2017 and I will be applying for pupillage in 2018. I would really appreciate some insight, since I gathered that the chances of an International student obtaining a pupillage now is much much harder?!

As Forum User has alluded to, I expect the lower number of international students obtaining pupillage has more to do with tangible requirements than it does with the quality of candidates who tick the necessary boxes. Visa requirements is a good example, but standards of written and spoken English are obviously extremely important as well, by which I mean you need to speak and write English to a higher education native level. When doing talks regarding pupillage and such at universities it has surprised me how many foreign students have aspirations of becoming barristers whilst clearly not having a sufficiently high standard of spoken English. That's not to say they can't speak English very well or indeed fluently, but the reality is that advocacy is an elite skill that relies on high level communication and persuasion, and if you don't speak English well enough to do that, you're not going to become a barrister.

It is perhaps worth a quick note about accents, because I expect plenty of international students are concerned about their accent causing problems with securing pupillage. The answer to that question is actually the same as the one about the broader issue of standards of English. In other words, in my view at least accents aren't a problem unless they get in the way of your ability to communicate. Ultimately if your accent makes it difficult for people to understand you, that is going to be a serious difficult in securing pupillage. But accents broadly speaking are not a problem. I've come across other barristers with foreign accents and not thought twice about it, just as I know English barristers with strong regional accents as well. It's not a problem if it doesn't impact on your ability to communicate.

Of course I may be wrong about all of this, because I'm only going (as ever) off my own experience. But providing you get over some of the more obvious potential hurdles for international students (such as visa requirements and standard of English), I don't think you'd necessarily need to be concerned about your status as an international student at all.

Reply 12

lea_law

2

Original post by Crazy Jamie

As Forum User has alluded to, I expect the lower number of international students obtaining pupillage has more to do with tangible requirements than it does with the quality of candidates who tick the necessary boxes. Visa requirements is a good example, but standards of written and spoken English are obviously extremely important as well, by which I mean you need to speak and write English to a higher education native level. When doing talks regarding pupillage and such at universities it has surprised me how many foreign students have aspirations of becoming barristers whilst clearly not having a sufficiently high standard of spoken English. That's not to say they can't speak English very well or indeed fluently, but the reality is that advocacy is an elite skill that relies on high level communication and persuasion, and if you don't speak English well enough to do that, you're not going to become a barrister.

It is perhaps worth a quick note about accents, because I expect plenty of international students are concerned about their accent causing problems with securing pupillage. The answer to that question is actually the same as the one about the broader issue of standards of English. In other words, in my view at least accents aren't a problem unless they get in the way of your ability to communicate. Ultimately if your accent makes it difficult for people to understand you, that is going to be a serious difficult in securing pupillage. But accents broadly speaking are not a problem. I've come across other barristers with foreign accents and not thought twice about it, just as I know English barristers with strong regional accents as well. It's not a problem if it doesn't impact on your ability to communicate.

Of course I may be wrong about all of this, because I'm only going (as ever) off my own experience. But providing you get over some of the more obvious potential hurdles for international students (such as visa requirements and standard of English), I don't think you'd necessarily need to be concerned about your status as an international student at all.

I personally don't think that English is an issue here. First of all, passing the BPTC in itself is proof that the English standard is high. Second, I am in one of the only providers that makes sure you have the required English level before you are even enrolled. And I have even have a teaching certificate from the British Council. I think the only problem is too many applicants and one extra hurdle for an international student, a you mentioned, visa requirements. More paperwork for the chambers, which they could do without.

Original post by lea_law

I personally don't think that English is an issue here. First of all, passing the BPTC in itself is proof that the English standard is high. Second, I am in one of the only providers that makes sure you have the required English level before you are even enrolled. And I have even have a teaching certificate from the British Council. I think the only problem is too many applicants and one extra hurdle for an international student, a you mentioned, visa requirements. More paperwork for the chambers, which they could do without.

Paperwork relating to visa requirements isn't the issue for Chambers that you think it is. I'm not convinced that there would be that much more work involved at all, as Chambers are often asked to provide information on things such as prospective or actual earnings (for the purpose of accountants, for example). But even if there is notably more work, Chambers want the best candidates, and I simply cannot envisage any scenario at all where a person is considered the best candidate but is not offered pupillage due to the workload for Chambers in terms of visa requirements. When I spoke about visa requirements I was more referring to pupillage being sufficient to satisfy such requirements, not that fewer offers of pupillage will be made due to those requirements.

I also disagree that passing the BPTC itself is sufficient proof that a person's English standard is high, or at least high enough. I don't know what the required standard is of the provider that you're referring to, and it may be that that does make a difference, but the flaw in the theory that passing the BPTC is self evident of a sufficiently high level of English is that passing the BPTC does not even show that a candidate has sufficient skills to secure pupillage. As a mechanism for preparing students for pupillage, the BPTC really isn't very good. I've seen plenty of candidates who have passed the BPTC who aren't sufficiently good at advocacy/communication who are native English speakers. As I say, this is not so much about standards of English as it is about advocacy as an elite skill. British candidates have a decent chance of being found lacking in that area, let alone international candidates.

Reply 14

xyz94

12

Original post by Polemos

It's absolutely possible to secure a pupillage as an international student. I'm an international student (of Australian nationality) and I've bagged a (deferred) pupillage at one of the London commercial sets. I don't think my international status was of any relevance whatsoever. Hope this helps!

Congratulations, which Chambers is it? :smile:

Reply 15

Tom_Elliott

10

Original post by lea_law

I personally don't think that English is an issue here. First of all, passing the BPTC in itself is proof that the English standard is high. Second, I am in one of the only providers that makes sure you have the required English level before you are even enrolled. And I have even have a teaching certificate from the British Council. I think the only problem is too many applicants and one extra hurdle for an international student, a you mentioned, visa requirements. More paperwork for the chambers, which they could do without.

It is absolutely possible to secure pupillage as an international student. I have done so, and so have many others. You do not have to come from an English-speaking country either (I do not, and I only moved to the UK after university, for work).

You could do a lot worse than listen to @Crazy Jamie. Remember that the job is effectively working with language. For that, being merely fluent in English is not enough. Whilst native speakers undoubtedly have a head start, they too have to develop appropriate levels of articulacy, precision of expression, and fluency of speech. Your only difficulty is that you are starting behind them, but it certainly can be done.

There is little to no paperwork involved for chambers, as you will be self-employed, so you will be dealing with your visa application yourself (with the help of your accountants).

As a further point for reflection -- and I do not mean to be uncharitable here, but if you're asking for help, there's no point beating about the bush -- you may wish to rethink whether it is a good line to take in your applications to imply that you are so good that you would certainly be selected if only chambers could be bothered to deal with the paperwork. Some barristers may think it arrogant.

Reply 16

xyz94

12

Original post by petite_chaperon_rose

And Why on earth do you question my linguistic abilities, SIR? Is it because I hail from a tiny island in the midst of The Indian Ocean?

Spoiler

Reply 17

Lou25081977

1

Original post by lea_law

Has petite chaperon rose been able to find a pupillage in the uk being an International student? I find myself in this same predicament, fast forward 10 years from the time this thread was created.We are now nearing the end of 2017 and I will be applying for pupillage in 2018. I would really appreciate some insight, since I gathered that the chances of an International student obtaining a pupillage now is much much harder?!

Hey, I am currently doing the LLB and intend taking the bar course in Uk after which I will relocate to my home country in Africa to practice . Is pupillage a requirement for international students who don’t intend practicing in uk before they are called to any of the Inns? In other words, is pupillage a pre requisite to the call ceremony when new lawyers get to put on their lawyerly attire for the first time ?

Original post by Lou25081977

Hey, I am currently doing the LLB and intend taking the bar course in Uk after which I will relocate to my home country in Africa to practice . Is pupillage a requirement for international students who don’t intend practicing in uk before they are called to any of the Inns? In other words, is pupillage a pre requisite to the call ceremony when new lawyers get to put on their lawyerly attire for the first time ?

No, you don’t need to have secured pupillage to either pass the Bar course or be called to the Bar.

Pupillage to international students

Quick Reply

Related discussions

Latest

Trending

Trending

Articles for you