opinions on scrapping GCSEs?
just wanted to hear everyone else's opinions on the idea of getting rid of GCSEs. i've always supported this; GCSEs just seem so out of date and inflexible and completely not what we need for students today.
sadly if they do get scrapped i'll still have to take them lol!
sadly if they do get scrapped i'll still have to take them lol!
Original post by fernducko
just wanted to hear everyone else's opinions on the idea of getting rid of GCSEs. i've always supported this; GCSEs just seem so out of date and inflexible and completely not what we need for students today.
sadly if they do get scrapped i'll still have to take them lol!
sadly if they do get scrapped i'll still have to take them lol!
Its a wonderful idea to get rid of all exams. Probably better too if we don't have any expectations, competition or demands of any student to have a good knowledge base at GCSE level? That way no one gets upset and everyone can avoid any pressure in life to do well? A lot of students leaving UK state schools seem to have a very limited bank of knowledge and facts to draw down on compared to other private or International schools. Probably best to close private schools in case they show up other failing schools? Perhaps gaming tips and how to apply for benefits and compensation would be a better vocational course for everyone?
But then how do businesses assess and decide which students reliably have a grasp of any required subject, if at all? The exam gold standards and quality of exams are crucial to the UK economy. If there are no coherent or reliable exam standards then we might just as well give up. Especially as politicians and educationalists can't resist fiddling with the numbers and meddle with grade inflation to avoid embarrassment.
Spain has the right idea.
Original post by fernducko
just wanted to hear everyone else's opinions on the idea of getting rid of GCSEs. i've always supported this; GCSEs just seem so out of date and inflexible and completely not what we need for students today.
sadly if they do get scrapped i'll still have to take them lol!
sadly if they do get scrapped i'll still have to take them lol!
GCSEs are brilliant. Think about it. If you go to a reasonable school that gives you a broad choice of options and in particular if you do the English Baccalaureate, you end up with a basic knowledge of all avenues of knowledge and skills required to go into any field you choose. Think about it - absolutely anything - isn't that amazing?
Who cares that you don't learn about mortgages, wiring a plug or servicing a car. All that is easy to learn because you have a foundation of maths, physics or problem solving plus hopefully, a curiosity to learn new things. School at GCSE level is not about giving you the skills for life. It is about giving you the skills and knowledge to go about obtaining the skills and knowledge you need for life and that is a much deeper and more valuable level or learning than what I think you are thinking about.
Good luck in your future - you have everything you need to make your own future. You shouldn't need a school to give that future to you.
(edited 9 months ago)
What would you have instead?
I think our education system (having just gone through it myself) is woefully out of date - and whilst I don't wish to self-aggrandise, I don't say this because I performed poorly in my GCSEs or A-Levels, but because I found the two systems to be wholly superfluous in the modern world!
GCSEs are, in essence, tests of memory. For each of my academic subjects, I collated all the information my teachers had given me, and all of the relevant information I could find online, into large Word Documents: these I then read, re-read, and re-read again until I could remember them by heart. I then performed very well in my GCSEs.
At A-Level, I didn't do precisely the same, for all the information I needed was in my textbooks! The relevant bits of these I ensured I knew - disregarding all other information that wasn't specifically listed on the specification - and again, they were tests of memory; with the odd, formulaic essay thrown in. These I also performed very well in - but why ought my ability to retain information by heart at the ages of 16 and 18 determine my future? How do two sets of memory tests prepare me for a world in which all information is readily available at the touch of a button, a world in which a computer can write an essay on any subject in a split-second?
Our education system is awfully analogue; our world is not - as I see the matter.
GCSEs are, in essence, tests of memory. For each of my academic subjects, I collated all the information my teachers had given me, and all of the relevant information I could find online, into large Word Documents: these I then read, re-read, and re-read again until I could remember them by heart. I then performed very well in my GCSEs.
At A-Level, I didn't do precisely the same, for all the information I needed was in my textbooks! The relevant bits of these I ensured I knew - disregarding all other information that wasn't specifically listed on the specification - and again, they were tests of memory; with the odd, formulaic essay thrown in. These I also performed very well in - but why ought my ability to retain information by heart at the ages of 16 and 18 determine my future? How do two sets of memory tests prepare me for a world in which all information is readily available at the touch of a button, a world in which a computer can write an essay on any subject in a split-second?
Our education system is awfully analogue; our world is not - as I see the matter.
Original post by Muttly
A lot of students leaving UK state schools seem to have a very limited bank of knowledge and facts to draw down on compared to other private or International schools. Probably best to close private schools in case they show up other failing schools?
Evidence? My school far outperforma the local Private school - their average A level grade is a C-.
Original post by Muttley79
Evidence? My school far outperforma the local Private school - their average A level grade is a C-.
Sadly this is usually the exception not the rule.
I personally think that we should keep GCSEs like is currently the case but let people completely (yes I mean completely like you can when you're 18) drop out of education once they are 16 if they've passed GCSE Maths and GCSE English Language.
Or scrap GCSEs but have pupils be in education until they are 18 years old rather than the current system where you effectively have to do GCSEs and still need to be in some form of education until you're 18.
As far as I'm aware we seem to be a unique case as country (having major exams at 16 that have this much importance (compared to other European countries), combined with me not being able to name a single other country where you can drop English, Maths and Science simultaneously before the legal school leaving age (if you don't go down a vocational/homeschooling route or not going to school all together) unless someone can educate me).
I'd support the scrapping of GCSEs if it meant everyone had to be in school until they are 18.
(the man who introduced GCSEs seems to be saying that they ought the scrapped because the leaving age is effectively 18 years old now and not 16, at least that's the case in England).
Or scrap GCSEs but have pupils be in education until they are 18 years old rather than the current system where you effectively have to do GCSEs and still need to be in some form of education until you're 18.
As far as I'm aware we seem to be a unique case as country (having major exams at 16 that have this much importance (compared to other European countries), combined with me not being able to name a single other country where you can drop English, Maths and Science simultaneously before the legal school leaving age (if you don't go down a vocational/homeschooling route or not going to school all together) unless someone can educate me).
I'd support the scrapping of GCSEs if it meant everyone had to be in school until they are 18.
(the man who introduced GCSEs seems to be saying that they ought the scrapped because the leaving age is effectively 18 years old now and not 16, at least that's the case in England).
If we educated all children at an early age to read, to write, to touch type, to spell, to speak, to debate, do mental maths (the usual add up, multiply (subtract, percentages etc) - then students could leave school at 14 Learning can be condensed very quickly if rhymes and repetition are used. Not memorising is laziness. Once everyone can read you can learn online or progress more learning later in life.
Students are all kept on for political reasons now to keep the out of work numbers low. We need to regain a work ethic. Teachers should not be 'baby sitters' for the disaffected unwilling students at 17/18 years of age. If at 11 to school leaving schools introduced an hour a day of sports or fun cardio work, taught home cooking, other interesting crafts, and skills and introduced whole food lunches (soup & a wholemeal roll & fruit) and then trained everyone to swim, to do lifesaving, first aid, money skills and offered practical skills such as building, decorating, electrics - all the usual house building skills then we might have a fitter, healthier and happier student population. We should not require students to have a degree to do shelf filling or picking, but a recognised English and Maths exam.
Students are all kept on for political reasons now to keep the out of work numbers low. We need to regain a work ethic. Teachers should not be 'baby sitters' for the disaffected unwilling students at 17/18 years of age. If at 11 to school leaving schools introduced an hour a day of sports or fun cardio work, taught home cooking, other interesting crafts, and skills and introduced whole food lunches (soup & a wholemeal roll & fruit) and then trained everyone to swim, to do lifesaving, first aid, money skills and offered practical skills such as building, decorating, electrics - all the usual house building skills then we might have a fitter, healthier and happier student population. We should not require students to have a degree to do shelf filling or picking, but a recognised English and Maths exam.
Original post by fernducko
just wanted to hear everyone else's opinions on the idea of getting rid of GCSEs. i've always supported this; GCSEs just seem so out of date and inflexible and completely not what we need for students today.
sadly if they do get scrapped i'll still have to take them lol!
sadly if they do get scrapped i'll still have to take them lol!
I think they’re outdated. The man who invented them has actually called for them to be abolished. It’s time to rethink the education system but how to go about doing that doesn’t look clear.
Original post by Muttly
Sadly this is usually the exception not the rule.
No - waiting for evidence please ... you cannot make sweeping statement without proof. Many Private schools are selective - most state schools aren't. You need to compare progress not just raw results.
Original post by Muttly
If we educated all children at an early age to read, to write, to touch type, to spell, to speak, to debate, do mental maths (the usual add up, multiply (subtract, percentages etc) - then students could leave school at 14
Students are all kept on for political reasons now to keep the out of work numbers low. We need to regain a work ethic. Teachers should not be 'baby sitters' for the disaffected unwilling students at 17/18 years of age. I
Students are all kept on for political reasons now to keep the out of work numbers low. We need to regain a work ethic. Teachers should not be 'baby sitters' for the disaffected unwilling students at 17/18 years of age. I
More crazy statements with no proof. Students in a sixth form aren't 'baby sat' - you don't have to be in school at this age - just 'in education' which can be an apprenticeship.
The country does not need 'robots' but young people who can think and problem solve - where does this fit with leaving school at 14?
(edited 9 months ago)
Original post by Muttley79
Evidence? My school far outperforma the local Private school - their average A level grade is a C-.
Probably the best study on this was done in 2019. I used to think that the discrepancy between the average private/state school student's results was almost all due to differences in socio-economic backgrounds and prior attainment. But this study compared students like for like and still found an 8 percentage point advantage for the average private school student which was surprising. It attributes this to private schools having three times the resources but I'm sure there are other reasons as well.
I don't have a high opinion of private schools but I can't escape the fact that for the average student in an average part of the country, going to a private school is an advantage academically. Of course there are exceptions like your school for example.
(edited 9 months ago)
Original post by Notnek
Probably the best study on this was done in 2019. I used to think that the discrepancy between the average private/state school student's results was almost all due to differences in socio-economic backgrounds and prior attainment. But this study compared students like for like and still found an 8 percentage point advantage for the average private school student which was surprising. It attributes this to private schools having three times the resources but I'm sure there are other reasons as well.
I don't have a high opinion of private schools but I can't escape the fact that for the average student in an average part of the country, going to a private school is an advantage academically. Of course there are exceptions like your school for example.
I don't have a high opinion of private schools but I can't escape the fact that for the average student in an average part of the country, going to a private school is an advantage academically. Of course there are exceptions like your school for example.
DfE data is more recent and of course private schools can manipulate results by making students pay for entries - state schools can't. They can also 'get rid' of students very easily.
Private schools are an abomination - if those parents sent their children to state schools then everyone would benefit. Parent apathy is almost exclusively absent for Private schools,
Original post by Muttly
If we educated all children at an early age to read, to write, to touch type, to spell, to speak, to debate, do mental maths (the usual add up, multiply (subtract, percentages etc) - then students could leave school at 14 Learning can be condensed very quickly if rhymes and repetition are used. Not memorising is laziness. Once everyone can read you can learn online or progress more learning later in life.
You would think that wouldn't you. Sadly, in my view as a teacher, now of A-level, the vast majority of students do not have the skills to be able to teach themselves. At 14 this diminishes even further. What's more, around half of children never reach a reading age of 15 and in the adult population, the average reading age is 9 years old which ironically is the level the Sun pitches itself. This issue of reading is much bigger than schools alone and more societal.
Original post by Muttly
Students are all kept on for political reasons
Students are all kept on for political reasons
Partly, but equally in a knowledge based economy we need highly educated people, not people who can perform manual labour as was the case 100 years ago. If a student leaves school at 14, honestly, what would they do? You suggest they might join a trade, but trades are now highly skilled jobs. Take a plumber - not only do you need to keep abreast of the latest standards and legal legislation around gas and building regulations (reading) but you also need to be able to work in a team and lease in a meaningful way with your clients, something many young people do not have the skills to do.
Take shop assistant - often mooted as a dead end job. Now picture in your head the kid from the sink estate with little or no ambition walking around in a hoodie getting into mischief. Can you see that person delivering outstanding service in Sainsburys? They don't have the skills or work ethic that would see them arrive in their job on time and stick with it.
Original post by Muttly
If at 11 to school leaving schools introduced an hour a day of sports or fun cardio work, taught home cooking, other interesting crafts, and skills and introduced whole food lunches (soup & a wholemeal roll & fruit) and then trained everyone to swim, to do lifesaving, first aid, money skills
If at 11 to school leaving schools introduced an hour a day of sports or fun cardio work, taught home cooking, other interesting crafts, and skills and introduced whole food lunches (soup & a wholemeal roll & fruit) and then trained everyone to swim, to do lifesaving, first aid, money skills
This all happens already in the school system. But there are simply not enough pools to allow everyone daily access to swimming and who would pay for it anyway. Most schools of a breadth of skill and craft based qualifications so I am not really sure how that is deemed to be missing. Similarly, schools do offer healthy nutritional meals now, but it is still produced to a price point. It is a sad indictment that in some schools as many as 50% of children have free school meals. I think we forget how much poverty there still is in our society.
For me, the problem with our society (and yes - I blame society) is that it does not value education. Parents consider that it is school's responsibility to educate where as in reality if education is to really thrive, it requires a partnership between school and home. I am fed up with the idea that it is cool or funny to not know basic knowledge about the world we live in or laugh about the fact they have the inability to do even basic arithmetic. It is easy to blame schools which are already the parents, pastoral, police, moral setting, social workers and feeders of society. And that is even before we start teaching.
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