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Muslims and SFE

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Reply 40
Original post by Sorcerer of Old
I repeat, I can give my opinion which I believe to be fact and the OP is free to accept or leave it, no one is forcing them to take anyone’s word as gospel. Taking the loan is perfectly permissible and OK.

It is not perfectly permissible. Loans are riba and riba is Haram, that is misleading. If I knew this at the beginning I would of taken gap year and applied to a different university which funds ur tution fee (scholarship) as my brother is doing. It’s too late for me and circumstance is quite specific, I haven’t found a clear answer due it (about maintence loans, not tution fee). I do not condone anyone who hasn’t started university yet, to take the loan without thought. I’m afraid ppl who stumble on this thread will think it’s perfectly fine now.
(edited 8 months ago)
Reply 41
Original post by Sorcerer of Old
False. Anyone can phrase anything as anything and no one can force OP to take anyone’s opinion.

I appreciate the input as it’s helped get attention from the right people but can I ask if you’re Muslim? “Sorcerer” connotes sihr, I don’t think any muslim should associate with it as a joke!
Reply 42
Original post by random_matt
A) Take out a loan and go to university.
B) Do not take out a loan and do not go to university.

Your choice buddy.

I stated if ur not speaking from an Islamic perspective, do not provide your unhelpful advice.
Reply 43
Original post by Zamestaneh
"Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim

As a preface, I would like to clarify I am not a scholar nor a student of knowledge and therefore I am open to being respectfully corrected on this issue with sufficient evidence. I hope this post serves as a clarification for everyone regarding the situation surrounding student finance in the United Kingdom at the time of me writing this (2018); obviously the nature of student finance in the United Kingdom can or might change in the future which is why I am clearly stating the date. It is very important, however, to state that this post will NOT give a yes or no answer regarding whether student finance in the UK is Haram or Halal, rather it is hoped that it will provide you students/future students with the relevant facts for you to be able to decide which opinion to follow yourselves as there is currently a lot of confusion and misinformation surrounding this topic.

Before we delve into the Fatwah issued by Sheikh Haitham Al Hadad, a learned Jordanian scholar currently situated in the UK and one of the students of Sheikh Bin Baz, it is very important to outline the key points about student finance as these are the working gears and cogs in any Fatwah for or against it being Haram or Halal.

(1) A contract is made between the government and the student.

(2) Money is paid directly to the university to cover tuition fees.

(3) The total amount that the government expects to receive back from the student increases by the rate of inflation per year up to several percent at the goverment's discretion.

(4) Once the student earns over a certain amount (£25,000 currently), the government takes a percentage of the salary over it (9%). E.g. if you earn £1000 above the threshold, the government will take £90. Once it falls below that threshold, no money is taken until your salary exceeds the threshold again.

(5) Once the amount of money the government has taken from the student equals the total amount of money the government has expected back from the student, the contract between the student and the government terminates, and the student keeps all of their salary thereafter.

Important Note: In the above, I have avoided saying the word 'interest' and 'loan'. The reason for this is because although these are used both by the government and people generally when discussing student finance, they have certain connotations which are conflated with Ribaa (usery), which is the crux of the problem being discussed.

Now we get to Sheikh Haitham's Fatwah stating that student finance in the UK is Halal. He likens the points above to a business transaction or an investment rather than a loan despite it being considered a loan by the government. If something looks like a duck, smells like a duck and quacks like a duck but you call it a frog, it doesn't make it a frog - similarly, his point is that the reality of student finance differs from the labels the government or people give them. Below is (my understanding of) his subsequent logic:

(1) The contract made between the government and the student is essentially akin to a business agreement rather than a loan.

(2) One does not give the government a fixed amount of money e.g. £50 per month.

(3) The amount the governement takes from the student is a fixed percentage of their salary - this is like two business partners splitting profits.

(4) Even if the £25,000 threshold (as of 2018) was not there, the student would not have to pay anything if they did not earn anything - this is like two businesses partners sharing the losses.

(5) The total amount of money the government expects from the student is effectively the value of a 'buy out' clause of the contract - this is like if one business partner said ''Once I have gained £50,000 from this business, our partnership is over and you can have full control of the business now''.

(6) If the students agrees to the term that the government can increase the value of the 'buy out clause' by a fixed percentage each year, this does not constitute Ribaa. Therefore even if the government paid £10,000 towards your tuition fees and they derive £15,000 from you, this is permissible, as you were simply continuing your business partnership of splitting your salary at a ratio of 91:9.

From this perspective, it is perfectly fine to take out student finance as there is no Ribaa involved in his opinion.

Has there been criticism or this Fatwah? Yes. Is all of that criticism valid though? That is the question that needs to be asked now.

Some more overzealous brothers, noteably Imran Bin Mansur (DawahMan) - who I have only named because people often come across his videos and he hasn't taken down things he has been advised are incorrect - hopefully intended good InshaAllah but unfortunately went on a blunderous and damaging tirade against Sheikh Haitham Al Hadad and accused him of not being a Sheikh, questioning his credentials and whether he was a student of Sheikh Bin Baz, accused him of permitting that which is Haram by consensus, and so on, with the end result being to discredit the Sheikh and to refute his Fatwah regarding student finance.

In attempting to address the issue, these brothers went to a scholar who specialises in finance from the Gulf to ascertain whether student finance in the United Kingdom is Haram. The scholar heard them describe the key points of student finance (like I listed at the start), then subsequently denounced the Fatwah saying it is permissible and denounced the one who issued it. The major issue with this, however, was that the key point that a percentage of the student's salary is taken rather than a fixed payment was missing from the brothers' explanation of student finance which is central to whether it would be considered a Halal transaction or Ribaa according to Islamic Financial principles, therefore the whole counter-Fatwah was rendered invalid - a Fatwah cannot be made more authoritative over another when it is based upon incomplete facts whilst the other is based upon complete facts.

Similarly, a dear brother of mine asked a scholar from Saudi Arabia but similarly made the same mistake of giving incomplete information, therefore the resulting Fatwah could not be used to counter the Fatwah of Sheikh Haitham Al Hadad. I highlight this issue because whilst doing research, you may come across criticisms like this or you may be forwarded messages from friends stating how this Fatwah 'makes Ribaa permissible' when Allah SWT has made it Haram, thus you should be aware that it is an invalid critique.



All of this said, I again must emphasise that it is still a valid opinion to say that student finance is Haram, but this is for you to personally research and decide - my only intention was to say that if you do choose to take out student finance in the UK, do not feel so conflicted about it as there is a valid opinion that it is fine; if you choose to err on the side of caution then may Allah SWT reward you for your sacrifice and facilitate your goals through other means.

As I conclude this post, a reminder to myself and you all is if there is a valid difference of opinion, we need to be mature in how we approach it - so if one follows an opinion that we do not follow, respectfully leave them to it and do not try to refute them, as that is for the scholars to discuss."


Jazakallu Khair for this. I would like to stay on the side of caution. May Allah guide us all, ameen.
Original post by Catlova67
I stated if ur not speaking from an Islamic perspective, do not provide your unhelpful advice.


Perspective is irrelevant, the two choices are your only ones regardless.
Reply 45
Original post by Catlova67
I stated if ur not speaking from an Islamic perspective, do not provide your unhelpful advice.

Nicely put. Is this a Muslim-only thread?
Reply 46
Original post by random_matt
Well then, I am not entirely sure what the purpose of this thread is and perhaps they just feel guilty. The OP has said it was OK to take the loan.

Did you guys even read my original post? You guys obviously have a certain agenda. I have not the loan yet, and wanted to know the Islamic opinions and directions…you wouldn’t understand. I realised and want to stress that any loan is not okay…it is Riba, and being comfortable taking it is not okay or normal or “perfectly fine”.

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