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Does England have no culture?

lebanon85

I would say England has had a pretty incredible impact on music considering the size of the place.

The Beatles aside, I cannot think of any major examples, and even then, the Beatles would not exist without American music.

Reply 81

fran.ha

17

calvinuk

This.

I think we've become too accustomed to letting other people embrace their own culture, that we're scared to do it ourselves and look like we're imposing it on others.

Well said. I recently decided I might like to stick an English flag on the back of my car. All my friends begged me not to do it. It seems anyone trying to stand up and say 'I'm English and proud' is automatically deemed a member of the BNP.

I also don't get the whole 'British' thing. Yes I am British but I consider myself English more. I can't say for definate but I'm sure if an Scottish person was asked by an American 'So what nationality are you?' they would say Scottish, and rightly so. However, when I went to America and someone asked me the same question I replied 'English'. They said 'Oh, so, you're like, British then?'

Reply 82

lebanon85

Gelliant Gutfright

The Beatles aside, I cannot think of any major examples, and even then, the Beatles would not exist without American music.

OK so I lazily copy and pasted this from wikipedia but I complete agree with the entry:-

"The United Kingdom has had an influence on modern music worldwide which is disproportionate to its population. Indeed, the United Kingdom has produced many of the world's most influential artists and bands, such as The Beatles, The Clash, Iron Maiden, Pink Floyd, The Sex Pistols, The Who, Deep Purple, Queen, Genesis, Rod Stewart, The Prodigy, Elton John, Oasis, Blur, Led Zeppelin, Radiohead, Depeche Mode, Black Sabbath, The Rolling Stones The Smiths.

The UK has also been credited with the creation of many different musical genres, these include drum and bass, garage, acid house, punk, industrial, oi, grime, heavy metal, britpop, power electronics, new-wave, grindcore and goregrind among others."

Reply 83

Philster07

Gelliant Gutfright

I did not say there are no English films that are instantly recognisable. My point is that American cinema has far more examples than English cinema, and I would also debate that Hot Fuzz and Shaun of the Dead are both instantly recognisable on an international level. A quote from either of those films is not as likely to have its source recognised as something like "I made him an offer he couldn't refuse" from the Godfather, "Luke, I am your father" from Star Wars or "you looking at me?" from Taxi Driver. If a quantitative comparison of iconic films from England and America is made, I doubt England would come close to being as prominent as America.

Also note that without Romero (Italian/American cinema), Shaun of the Dead would not exist. A lot of the references made in the Wright/Pegg films relate to American culture.

I'm not even going to rise to this ^ purley because it will just end up as a fight over which is better the UK or US

Reply 84

Gelliant Gutfright

1

lebanon85

OK so I lazily copy and pasted this from wikipedia but I complete agree with the entry:-

"The United Kingdom has had an influence on modern music worldwide which is disproportionate to its population. Indeed, the United Kingdom has produced many of the world's most influential artists and bands, such as The Beatles, The Clash, Iron Maiden, Pink Floyd, The Sex Pistols, The Who, Deep Purple, Queen, Genesis, Rod Stewart, The Prodigy, Elton John, Oasis, Blur, Led Zeppelin, Radiohead, Depeche Mode, Black Sabbath, The Rolling Stones The Smiths.

The UK has also been credited with the creation of many different musical genres, these include drum and bass, garage, acid house, punk, industrial, oi, grime, heavy metal, britpop, power electronics, new-wave, grindcore and goregrind among others."

The problem is that every band from that list has American roots. If it was not for jazz and blues, modern pop music would not exist (or at any rate, it would be very different) because the standard chord progressions would would not exist. This covers all forms of rock music, including heavy metal and similar styles.

I cannot think of an English punk band who are not influenced by the Velvet Underground, MC5, the Stooges or the Modern Lovers, all of whom predate the 1976-78 punk fad in the UK. It was very much an American creation.

Industrial music is the only one from the list that really stands out as a definite English style, created by the likes of Throbbing Gristle and Cabaret Voltaire before Americans had even considered it. Grime, grindcore and dnb, too, but they are have roots in American styles.

As for electronic music, that owes more to European experimentation than America. Stockhausen and Varèse were probably the most influential early electronic musicians, and it's rare that I hear of an electronic musician who is not directly influenced by Stockhausen (even then, their influence will usually cite him as an influence!). Electronic pop music was brought to popularity by Giorgio Moroder, Kraftwerk and various German bands like Harmonia and NEU!, who were not particularly well known amongst consumers but have been cited as a major influence by countless electronic groups.

English musicians in most of these genres are fundamentally derivative of styles invented by others, but that does not make them bad. They are creative, but they are not truly original.

Philster07

I'm not even going to rise to this ^ purley because it will just end up as a fight over which is better the UK or US

It shouldn't, because I don't think either of the two is superior. They both have their own unique qualities, and there are things about both that I love and hate.

Reply 85

Carmen_2008

Gelliant Gutfright

The problem is that every band from that list has American roots. If it was not for jazz and blues, modern pop music would not exist (or at any rate, it would be very different) .

Does this not mean that it has it's roots in Africa and not America? African slaves used to sing the blues to "cope" with oppression. and Jazz was an underground movement for poor african american's before it inflitrated the mainstream market.

Reply 86

Gelliant Gutfright

1

Carmen_2008

Does this not mean that it has it's roots in Africa and not America? African slaves used to sing the blues to "cope" with oppression. and Jazz was an underground movement for poor african american's before it inflitrated the mainstream market.

Yes, a primitive form of jazz has its roots in Africa. Theoretically, it did not evolve into something more than just a form of folk music until the 1920s/'30s, by people whom identified themselves as American and lived in America. You are right, but things like bebop, swing, modal jazz and cool jazz all have their own specific musical theories that only have vague harmonic similarities with roots music, and it was these forms of jazz that led to the creation of pop music as we now know it.

I'd accredit it to both Africans and African-Americans, but only the latter made it into an actual theory of music that was capable of competing with diatonicism.

Reply 87

JamesGoodwinB

Of course England has it's own culture, the oldest in western Europe in fact. Trouble is, the British Government has sought to suppress English culture since 1707 (when it formed the United Kingdom of realms) because it was so utterly dominant before. In this way the British Government can hold on to the assets that Scotland and Wales possess - do you think they'd be so happy to go along with it if England was a much stronger, more confident neighbour? Of course not, so England has been deliberately downgraded for 300 years. We are 'encouraged' to think that flying the Cross of St George is inherently racist. Why? The French don't think like that, the Spanish don't think like that, even the bloody Germans are proud of their flag and identity. You don't see German media outlets exclaiming how boring oom-pah bands and leather shorts are, are they really any different to Morris dancers (to name the only English cultural reference anyone seems to be aware of). England invented half the sport in the world today, too many scientific innovations to mention, plus a ton of different foods (Yorkshire pud anyone? Followed by Apple pie?), not to mention parliament and of course our language, which in the dark ages was known as the "free thinking language of rebellion" because of how adaptable and useful to science and literature it was. If England has no culture then shame on you and me, because it had one before - we just let it wither and die because that was what we were told to do.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 88

capitalismstinks

1

English culture has probably shaped the modern world more than anyone other. It's so vast and so rich people forget that it's there. It's like the background culture, but without it, ther would be no culture that we recognise.

Does England have no culture?

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