Additional Further Maths Discussion Thread

Hey everyone,

I don't think there are any threads on here to discuss additional further maths and yet there are literally dozens for each of the popular modules which seems unfair!

Hopefully I'm not the only one... :lol:

So anyway, how are people finding it so far? I'm the only people at my school doing the exams I'm doing and I'm having to teach myself. This makes for a very tedious exam preparation. Is anyone else having the same experience?

What modules is everyone doing? Which ones do you find tedious and which ones do you enjoy?

I'm doing Statistics 3, Statistics 4, Decision 2, Mechanics 4 and Mechanics 5. Can't say I find any of them particularly enjoyable unfortunately atm; I'm just doing it all a bit last-minute to meet my offers :/

Reply 1

cooldudeman

18

Additional fm seems kinda fake. It should be called hardcore stats and mechanics....

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 2

Jkn

OP

11

Original post by cooldudeman

Additional fm seems kinda fake. It should be called hardcore stats and mechanics....

Posted from TSR Mobile

Fake? Well there's no core syllabus so it's whatever modules you have left over. Some people might do FP3 etc.. :smile:

Reply 3

cooldudeman

18

Original post by Jkn

Fake? Well there's no core syllabus so it's whatever modules you have left over. Some people might do FP3 etc.. :smile:

Thats exactly why it seems unreal. Because of no core topics.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 4

username937760

16

Original post by cooldudeman

Thats exactly why it seems unreal. Because of no core topics.

Posted from TSR Mobile

M5 is arguably purer than the core modules - you have to be comfortable with both differentiation and integration from first principles, as well as both first and second order differential equations (Including deriving them from limits). You also get vector differential equations and so on. FP3 is pretty common to go with it as well.

I'm doing S3, S4, M4, M5 and FP3 this summer.

Reply 5

Jkn

OP

11

Original post by DJMayes

M5 is arguably purer than the core modules - you have to be comfortable with both differentiation and integration from first principles, as well as both first and second order differential equations (Including deriving them from limits). You also get vector differential equations and so on. FP3 is pretty common to go with it as well.

I'm doing S3, S4, M4, M5 and FP3 this summer.

Yay.. I was hoping you'd turn up :happy2:

In some ways, I suppose. The moments of inertia crap kind of ruin it for me though.. you into that stuff? :tongue:

Are there any big AFM threads I'm missing... or is this it? :| You better engage in some serious exam discussion the day after each exam! :colone:

Reply 6

username937760

16

Original post by Jkn

Yay.. I was hoping you'd turn up :happy2:

In some ways, I suppose. The moments of inertia crap kind of ruin it for me though.. you into that stuff? :tongue:

Are there any big AFM threads I'm missing... or is this it? :| You better engage in some serious exam discussion the day after each exam! :colone:

Moments of inertia are fun! I do find them very easy to make slips on though, as it's very easy to make a slight slip in arithmetic that brings the whole thing crumbling down on questions involving large composite bodies. They did take me the longest to get used to. Either those or Variable Mass would be my favourites.

(As for AFM, I've never really searched, I just tend to stick to the A Level Maths thread.)

Reply 7

Jkn

OP

11

Original post by DJMayes

Moments of inertia are fun! I do find them very easy to make slips on though, as it's very easy to make a slight slip in arithmetic that brings the whole thing crumbling down on questions involving large composite bodies. They did take me the longest to get used to. Either those or Variable Mass would be my favourites.

(As for AFM, I've never really searched, I just tend to stick to the A Level Maths thread.)

Variable mass is awesome! And the questions are normally so pure that I find them easy :smile:

Practice makes perfect I suppose... only tried one paper so far! In each module :tongue:

Havent barely opened my S4 book though :eek:

I feel it would be do irrelevant to everyone else to do that :tongue:

Hopefully other AFM-ers will spot this thread :tongue:

Reply 8

Jkn

OP

11

Original post by DJMayes

Moments of inertia are fun! I do find them very easy to make slips on though, as it's very easy to make a slight slip in arithmetic that brings the whole thing crumbling down on questions involving large composite bodies. They did take me the longest to get used to. Either those or Variable Mass would be my favourites.

(As for AFM, I've never really searched, I just tend to stick to the A Level Maths thread.)

S4, page 71/72, "Finding a pooled estimate for variance".

They haven't derived the formula correctly an when they apparently "prove" it is unbiased, they assumed the expectations of

S_x^2

and

S_y^2

are both equal which is the case if and only if the null hypothesis you might apply such a procedure to holds. Surely this is a circular argument as the validity of the estimate is not justified for the range of alternate hypotheses? Is there a correct way to justify it? (I'm only just reading through it so I've probably missed something daft.. :tongue:

)

Reply 9

__Student__

can someone explain the difference between further maths and normal maths please?

Reply 10

joostan

13

Original post by __Student__

can someone explain the difference between further maths and normal maths please?

More modules different content about sums it up, some of FM is more abstract/difficult.

Reply 11

__Student__

Original post by joostan

More modules different content about sums it up, some of FM is more abstract/difficult.

So for the first year what do you do in further that you wouldnt for normal?

Reply 12

joostan

13

Original post by __Student__

So for the first year what do you do in further that you wouldnt for normal?

It depends. I personally did A2 maths in a year, though others do AS FM and AS maths in a year.
However we appear to have hijacked Jkn's thread, there's plenty other threads to ask about maths v FM in, or failing that you can start your own. :smile:

Reply 13

Jkn

OP

11

Original post by __Student__

So for the first year what do you do in further that you wouldnt for normal?

You get an introduction, at a similar level of difficulty to Core 3/4, to abstract mathematics. This includes complex numbers and usually a development of the concept of a differential equation. You also get an opportunity to explore many areas of university mathematics such as differential geometry, graph theory, central limit theorem and applications of limit theory (to take a rather disconnected array of topics). In this sense, Further Maths is certainly a help in that it ill help you decide whether or not you are likely to enjoy maths once you get to university.

Additional Further Maths is the opportunity to explore all of these ideas rather than just a few> However, it is an utter waste of time because it is likely more detrimental to the development of mathematical ability than it is nurturing as time is best otherwise spent exploring more difficult problems rather than more sophisticated material.

Original post by joostan

It depends. I personally did A2 maths in a year, though others do AS FM and AS maths in a year.
However we appear to have hijacked Jkn's thread, there's plenty other threads to ask about maths v FM in, or failing that you can start your own. :smile:

Others also do AS/A2 FM plus A2 M :colone:

Reply 14

Mastermind2

1

Original post by Jkn

...

Subscribing :colone:

I will be sitting S3, M4 and FP2 as part of an AS in AFM. I'm also going to resit FP3 for the lulz :colone:

Have you already sat FP2 and FP3? If so, what did you achieve?

Reply 15

__Student__

Original post by Jkn

You get an introduction, at a similar level of difficulty to Core 3/4, to abstract mathematics. This includes complex numbers and usually a development of the concept of a differential equation. You also get an opportunity to explore many areas of university mathematics such as differential geometry, graph theory, central limit theorem and applications of limit theory (to take a rather disconnected array of topics). In this sense, Further Maths is certainly a help in that it ill help you decide whether or not you are likely to enjoy maths once you get to university.

Additional Further Maths is the opportunity to explore all of these ideas rather than just a few> However, it is an utter waste of time because it is likely more detrimental to the development of mathematical ability than it is nurturing as time is best otherwise spent exploring more difficult problems rather than more sophisticated material.

Others also do AS/A2 FM plus A2 M :colone:

Does the A level count as 1 or would it be 2?

Reply 16

Dilzo999

19

You people are crazy, I can barely do M1 without crying my eyes out XD.

Reply 17

Jkn

OP

11

Original post by __Student__

Does the A level count as 1 or would it be 2?

2

Though, in the case of AFM, few unis allow all 3 as part of a 3-a-level offer :tongue:

Original post by Dilzo999

You people are crazy, I can barely do M1 without crying my eyes out XD.

Tbh, the difficulty difference is very small. It's just a case of building upon the skills you've learnt :smile:

That said, the only people that manage to get to modules like M4 and M5 (unless their school offers them) tend not to be challenged at all (hence why it serves no purpose).

This is illustrated by the following data:
55-60% of students sitting a-level maths get A/A*,
this is 60-70% for further maths and 70-80% for additional further maths.

Everyone knows it's madness and yet nothing changes! Those who struggle with maths will likely never use what they learnt and those who will likely ever use what they learnt are not sufficiently challenged! Yesterday, when reading one the the examiner's reports for the STEP exam, there was an entire paragraph on how appalling the modular a-level system is and how it ruins peoples ability to both 'take a step back' when approaching problems as well as think creatively. He compares the way an a-level maths student does an exam to 'being on automatic'. What I don't understand is how, if this is the general attitude of the top mathematicians and university educators in the country, why the government continues the regime of rote learning in a-level mathematics :/ Rant over.

Reply 18

justinawe

19

Original post by Jkn

2

Though, in the case of AFM, few unis allow all 3 as part of a 3-a-level offer :tongue:

Tbh, the difficulty difference is very small. It's just a case of building upon the skills you've learnt :smile:

That said, the only people that manage to get to modules like M4 and M5 (unless their school offers them) tend not to be challenged at all (hence why it serves no purpose).

This is illustrated by the following data:
55-60% of students sitting a-level maths get A/A*,
this is 60-70% for further maths and 70-80% for additional further maths.

Everyone knows it's madness and yet nothing changes! Those who struggle with maths will likely never use what they learnt and those who will likely ever use what they learnt are not sufficiently challenged! Yesterday, when reading one the the examiner's reports for the STEP exam, there was an entire paragraph on how appalling the modular a-level system is and how it ruins peoples ability to both 'take a step back' when approaching problems as well as think creatively. He compares the way an a-level maths student does an exam to 'being on automatic'. What I don't understand is how, if this is the general attitude of the top mathematicians and university educators in the country, why the government continues the regime of rote learning in a-level mathematics :/ Rant over.