The Official Funding questions/moans/possible joy Thread

So what I don't understand is if, say, Cambridge decideds on academic merit to award 25 of its scholarships to UK students and 25 to EU students, it can't, as far as I understand, use the leftover money to create an extra 10 (or however the math works out) UK studentships. Where does that money go? The only possible way I can see it working without returning the EU stipends to the research councils unused would be to have a quota system (say, 25 scholarships for UK students and 25 for EU students, every year), but I've never come across any sort of suggestion of the sort and the official line is that allocation is on academic merit alone.

If allocation really is on academic merit, then it creates some bizarre circumstances because of the unattractivness of fees-only awards. If, for example, I was the top ranked applicant for a studentship and was given the offer, I would have to turn it down (unless I manged to get some other funding source to plug the gap) because I couldn't afford to support myself for three years. With me having turned it down, the reserve candiate is a UK student and is offered around 300% more money than I was, and accepts the offer. So you have the better candidate rejected in order to pay the same amount of money it would cost to support the number one candidate to the reserve candidate. It's bonkers and I can't actually get my head around how it works. Maybe it is actually as dysfunctional as it seems, but I hope for the sake of Humanities PhDs everywhere that they sort it out soon.

X

So what I don't understand is if, say, Cambridge decideds on academic merit to award 25 of its scholarships to UK students and 25 to EU students, it can't, as far as I understand, use the leftover money to create an extra 10 (or however the math works out) UK studentships. Where does that money go?

not to give awards to EU students - unless they are truly outstanding applicants. This way they won't have to bother giving them stipends on their money.

I am an EU student with a fees-only award, in History. I would also love to know where the money from my non-stipend went. My award was given under the old block grant system though.

I think Oxford and Cambridge are exceptions to the rule, as like you say, they have the money lying around to give an EU student a stipend to allow them take the offer up.

Your standard university that's running on empty finance wise (which a lot of them are), just do not have the spare capital to fund a student for three years. Perhaps if they all stopped paying their VCs six figure salaries...

I've asked myself this question since last year, and I asked several academics - they don't know.


I've been told by the manager of a consortium that the university usually gives a stipend on its money if a EU student has been awarded a fees-only award, otherwise he would probably reject his offer and the studentship would go to another uni of the consortium. I therefore suppose that there is a consensus among the AHRC committee members not to give awards to EU students - unless they are truly outstanding applicants. This way they won't have to bother giving them stipends on their money.

I am an EU student with a fees-only award, in History. I would also love to know where the money from my non-stipend went. My award was given under the old block grant system though.

In my case, I was in the very fortunate position that my university 'plugged the gap' for my maintenance, from several different sources. My supervisor has told me before that when EU students are offered AHRC fees awards, the university tries very hard to find them maintenance money as they don't want them to turn down the award. However, as I'm at Cambridge, they often have the resources to do this, whereas I don't know whether every university would have the means to do this.

I know of at least two other EU students who have/had AHRC fees awards here at Cambridge; they also received maintenance money from different sources, thus anecdotally proving my supervisor's theory. However, now that I think about it, each of us is in a different year group and, as far as I know, were the only EU students to receive fees awards in our year, so perhaps History at Cambridge routinely used one scholarship for EU students every year, or something like that? I also knew another woman with an EU award while I did my AHRC International Placement Fellowship, a woman from Italy studying literature. All of this is pure conjecture on my part though, and as I said I was under the Block Grant system.

Ellie.rew & Josb, you have my absolute sympathies for having to wait to hear, and the attendant headaches about finding other pots of money. Best of luck!

X

Your standard university that's running on empty finance wise (which a lot of them are), just do not have the spare capital to fund a student for three years. Perhaps if they all stopped paying their VCs six figure salaries...

Thank you for the encouragement too, although I'm out of the running for all AHRC competitions now, unless I apply to that funded project. They still havn't gotten back to me as to whether there are other pots of money which would allow me to apply, despite a week and a half and a follow up email, so I'm not hopeful.

I'm out too. 0/4
I should have applied to Warwick.

While I agree that Oxford & Cambridge are likely exceptions, I still don't think there are too many EU students with AHRC awards here. Probably more than at most other universities (i.e. maybe one or two a year in most faculties), but most of the other EUs I know (apart from the ones I mentioned before) are funded via their college, or a scholarship from their home country, rather than from a research council, in the humanities at least.

It's definitely a big problem though, as it does hold back EU applicants from taking up places.

There's probably a big room in AHRC headquarters which is stuffed full of returned EU maintenece cash or something like that. It seems like on of these eternal mysteries in any case.

It depends on the university, Warwick and LSE have built their own funding schemes that match the number - if not higher - of scholarships given by comparable universities. A fee+stipend award is only worth £20K, so 60K a year; they can fund 16 new students per year with 1 million - on a 500 million budget (Warwick).

You're the first one I've ever come across, but as noted above, I think Oxbridge have a definate advantage in terms of plugging gaps, although the London AHRC consortium (KCL, UCL and SAS) have commmitted to doing it too now. I still don't see why they continue with the practice though, as it discourages applicants from taking up any offers the AHRC actually makes. Maybe it is the case that EU students are unofficially held to a much higher standard or that there are unofficial (maybe even unspoken) quotas to make sure money isn't wasted. On the whole though, I don't know why they don't just restrict it to UK applicants in that case, or open it up to everyone. The half-hearted acceptance of EU students is just silly and, I think it's been established at this point, doesn't seem to make any sense from a financial perspective.

Thank you for the encouragement too, although I'm out of the running for all AHRC competitions now, unless I apply to that funded project. They still havn't gotten back to me as to whether there are other pots of money which would allow me to apply, despite a week and a half and a follow up email, so I'm not hopeful.

Thanks for the feedback. As you said, you're in Cambridge under the old system, so it's different from the current situation with the consortia. Oxbridge still works that way now because they have their own AHRC pot.

The opacity of their proceedings really p***es me off, why don't they tell that EU students have almost no chance to get an award?

Indeed, think you're a rare breed



It does but I think the UK HE system will always look after its own first. That's the way of the world. What funding, if any would a UK student get if they applied to study for a PhD in Central Europe?

It does but I think the UK HE system will always look after its own first. That's the way of the world. What funding, if any would a UK student get if they applied to study for a PhD in Central Europe?

Also, I noted that the AHRC has now stated that it has NO part in the selection process, it is solely down to the university department in question.

I'll try take comfort in my rarity

I have no idea about Central Europe, but I know that postgraduate funding in my home country (Ireland) is open to all EU students, and all nationalities are treated the same with regards to the award. It seems strange and not a little unfair that the UK discriminates in this way when other countries don't. And students of all nationalities do receive awards under the Irish scheme, off the top of my head I can think of two Italians and a Spaniard studying with Irish Research Council money at my old department. But of course I accept your point that people will look after their own first, it's a natural instinct.

Afaik, EU students are eligible to the same bursaries as home students in France. The fact that they would have to write a 500p thesis in French turns them off from applying.

I am so confused. My process included passing one departmental interview and one interdisciplinary assessment panel before it was "submitted" to CHASE. As far as students are concerned the consortiums ARE the AHRC. So, are you saying the consortiums doled out the money and the universities decided in-house? Why all the opacity around who is actually selecting us? I was completely under the impression that the consortium assessment panels were external to the universities who essentially nominated more of their students than could possibly succeed.

Am I just getting this all twisted? I find it utterly ridiculous that I don't understand this, even after going through the process!

CHASE and LAHP will be made up of the group of universities involved, and have academic staff from each individual university sat on their organisation panel effectively. So take the History/Heritage/Culture panel for LAHP - it'll have academics on it from King's, UCL and SAS. It is those people who are deciding which students then get the available studentships, NOT the AHRC. The AHRC has washed their hands completely of deciding which students get the funding. The AHRC are barely involved at this point, they've done their bit of giving the money to the consortium.

Why did SAS get such a unfair share of the money pot if their academics are in the selection committee? They just watch UCL and KCL harvesting scholarships?

Thank you. That makes so much sense! I guess in my mind I just conflate the AHRC and the Consortium because, well, with the exception of whoever sits on the panel from my uni, final decisions are an external process.

Best of luck with the outstanding applications, hopefully a college will pick you up. You applied to John's right?

Are you Irish by any chance? You mentioned the research council back home, so I wondered if it was the IRC (when I applied to them it was still the IRCHSS).

Nope. Once the AHRC money is allocated to a university, it's in the university's own bank account I can assure you (seeing as I had to pay back an over payment and it went to my uni, not the AHRC).