The Liverpool FC Society

meskell

The only people who advocate Gerrard playing as a traditional CM are the people who's football experience amounts to one, or maybe both, of FIFA and FM. And people who love to rant on 606 and phone-ins.

He is a player who plays best running from deep with no defensive responsibilities.

Disagree - Do you watch games? He bosses quite a few of them at CM, he always has. He is also a great tackler and passer, hence WHY people want him there.

He's very good at AM behind the striker too but...we have no quality at CM (who else is going to spread the play, Lucas? Poulsen? Meireles who is always on the right wing?) who can have the affect on a game that Gerrard has and thus it makes more sense to have him at CM. Also in his auto-biography he makes the point that he loves to tackle and get stuck in, he is good at it and he can surge forward too then I see no reason to argue against him playing at CM other than the fact then we lack quality at AM (J.Cole just isn't doing it for me tbh).

And your statement is wrong, if he is good running from deep...that suggests he would be at CM rather than AM, cos that's a deep position.

Our lack of depth and talent is really making us pay.

Louis1991

I don't get your point. He was bought to replace Alonso, although they are very different players, and was a complete failure.

...He didn't even get a clear 90 minutes chance (other than 1 or 2 games) and that's hardly enough to adapt to the english game. See Nani and Malouda? (I guess you could also say Berbatov at United) they have each had 2/3 seasons each to develop into the PL.
Explain how he's a complete failure as opposed to those saying Ryan Babel needs more time! he hasn't had a chance.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 1982

Mess.

OP

20

Falcon91

Disagree - Do you watch games? He bosses quite a few of them at CM, he always has. He is also a great tackler and passer, hence WHY people want him there.

He's very good at AM behind the striker too but...we have no quality at CM (who else is going to spread the play, Lucas? Poulsen? Meireles who is always on the right wing?) who can have the affect on a game that Gerrard has and thus it makes more sense to have him at CM. Also in his auto-biography he makes the point that he loves to tackle and get stuck in, he is good at it and he can surge forward too then I see no reason to argue against him playing at CM other than the fact then we lack quality at AM (J.Cole just isn't doing it for me tbh).

And your statement is wrong, if he is good running from deep...that suggests he would be at CM rather than AM, cos that's a deep position.

Our lack of depth and talent is really making us pay.

...He didn't even get a clear 90 minutes chance (other than 1 or 2 games) and that's hardly enough to adapt to the english game. See Nani and Malouda? they have had 2/3 seasons each to develop into the PL.
Explain how he's a complete failure as opposed to those saying Ryan Babel needs more time! he hasn't had a chance.

Yes of course I do :facepalm2:

Gerrard is a competent CM but not a great one. His tackling is risky, last ditch and 'Hollywood'. He never looks fully in control when tackling but because he goes in 'fully blooded' the fans love him for it and think he is throwing good challenges in.

The 'running from deep' is meant more in the terms that his 'deep running' is better utilised playing at AMC because he is closer to box and can get more involved in finishing without leaving us in the lurch further back.

His tactical discipline is close to zero because he is more of a driving force. The same way you don't expect Ronaldo or Messi to defend because they are forces of nature attacking.

It is not Meireles' fault he is on the right, that is a failing on Hodgson's part. Lucas + Meireles is fine by me in the centre.

Babel is just a joke, he has had ample oppurtunity to do 'something' and has failed. The likes of Nani has taken a while to get his form going but he always seemed to have 'something' even if he was frustrating. Malouda was poor in his first season and then started to really hit top form so it is completely different to Babel.

Reply 1983

Falcon91

Disagree - Do you watch games? He bosses quite a few of them at CM, he always has. He is also a great tackler and passer, hence WHY people want him there.

He's very good at AM behind the striker too but...we have no quality at CM (who else is going to spread the play, Lucas? Poulsen? Meireles who is always on the right wing?) who can have the affect on a game that Gerrard has and thus it makes more sense to have him at CM. Also in his auto-biography he makes the point that he loves to tackle and get stuck in, he is good at it and he can surge forward too then I see no reason to argue against him playing at CM other than the fact then we lack quality at AM (J.Cole just isn't doing it for me tbh).

And your statement is wrong, if he is good running from deep...that suggests he would be at CM rather than AM, cos that's a deep position.

Our lack of depth and talent is really making us pay.

...He didn't even get a clear 90 minutes chance (other than 1 or 2 games) and that's hardly enough to adapt to the english game. See Nani and Malouda? (I guess you could also say Berbatov at United) they have each had 2/3 seasons each to develop into the PL.
Explain how he's a complete failure as opposed to those saying Ryan Babel needs more time! he hasn't had a chance.

Your quote won't show if you edit it in :fyi:

Man Utd's success didn't depend on whether Nani was a success. Chelsea's didn't on Malouda. Same goes for Babel really. You being able to maintain a top 4 finish was dependent on Aqua fitting into the team and playing well. For whatever reasons that didn't happen, injuries plus whatever else, it may have been out of his control but it's still fair to judge it as a failure. How would you describe his first season?

Wrt to Gerrard, he can't defend. If Blackpool can expose that that's all you need to know. Quite possibly his best season, and your best season for a long time, was 08/09. And where was he playing...

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 1984

DontBuyTheSun

12

dnumberwang

But their recent results should still not have been this **** regardless of who's manager considering the quality of the players, and that can't be blamed on the owners.

No, certainly not and the players should be ashamed of themselves. Only Pepe can hold his head high.

However, the uncertainty surrounding the club is crippling everyone from the fans to the players. Players, especially Nando, have been lied to repeatedly about supposed investment.

Still doesn't explain the lack of passion though.

Reply 1985

DontBuyTheSun

12

Falcon91

He bosses quite a few of them at CM, he always has. He is also a great tackler and passer, hence WHY people want him there.

Do you watch games? Gerrard hasn't bossed a game at CM since 06. He's lost that part of his game as he improved as an attacking footballer.

Gerrard is a MUCH better player running at defences then spreading 60 yard diagnoal passes to the corner flag.

RM can do Gerrards job in CM easily.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 1986

DontBuyTheSun

Do you watch games? Gerrard hasn't bossed a game at CM since 06. He's lost that part of his game as he improved as an attacking footballer.

Gerrard is a MUCH better player running at defences then spreading 60 yard diagnoal passes to the corner flag.

RM can do Gerrards job in CM easily.

Did you watch England play in their last game?
Who bossed the game from CM? (Okay it was against sub-par opposition, but it is still a presence that he has in that position, I knew someone would bring the dates up).

Yes, that part of Gerrards game has weakened, but its never going to fully disappear.

RM is never going to have that affect, he's the box-to-box style midfielder, and from what I've seen he doesn't play long balls so often, he prefers the quick short passing. He is the player who is nearly always free and we NEVER pass to (the fact a lot of our team lacks the ability to pass and then move doesn't help). It depends if he starts playing the long passes in future, yes I will agree he can fill in. But from what we've seen, he isn't that type of player.

At Louis, Aquilani's first season was non-existent is how I would describe it.
And Meskell (it was rhetorical, course i know you watch games :P) and I do see your point of reasoning and agree with most of what you say, however I do feel Gerrard's tackling game is more competent than some player's we have currently in that position (Poulsen in particular has looked very bad, he always fouls. I didn't like/rate him at WC and I'm liking him even less now).

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 1987

And non existent does not equal failure, or...

The best part of Gerrard's game is his shooting, imo. One of the worst is his defending*. It doesn't take a genius to work out he should be played further forward.

*which is more than just tackling. His defensive positioning and discipline is woeful.

Reply 1988

Louis1991

And non existent does not equal failure, or...

The best part of Gerrard's game is his shooting, imo. One of the worst is his defending*. It doesn't take a genius to work out he should be played further forward.

*which is more than just tackling. His defensive positioning and discipline is woeful.

Non-existent...i.e. had no chance show IF he was worth it.

And yes his positioning isnt great (and his discipline is...lol questionable? at times), but as i pointed out better than some players we have who are -supposed- to be DM's.

DontBuyTheSun is right though, where the heck is our passion or motivation?! We look devoid of it every time we play...

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 1989

Christ. The fact he was non-existent is the failure. The fact you spent the best part of £20mil on a player who couldn't break into the first team, mainly due to fitness admittedly, is the failure.

----Meireles----Lucas----
----------Gerrard--------

Looks to be your best central midfield.

Reply 1990

Louis1991

Christ. The fact he was non-existent is the failure. The fact you spent the best part of £20mil on a player who couldn't break into the first team, mainly due to fitness admittedly, is the failure.

----Meireles----Lucas----
----------Gerrard--------

Looks to be your best central midfield.

Fine, you see it as a failure (I can see it too but I still see it unfit to call it so as he was not given enough chance).

True about our best CM's (but does anyone have a clue where the HELL J.Cole is meant to play/is best?).
The main point is whatever the squad right now, its just not happening for us, we have the players to win but they are not performing. Losses to Northampton and Blackpool are shameful (no disrespect to either of the team's performances though).
Injury to Torres just further rubs salt in the wound and Roy saying he doesn't even know long for... :facepalm:

N'Gog alone up front once more I guess, unless he gambles on Kuyt.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 1991

Cole should be stuck on the left, with a bit of license to drift. It should work as long as super Koncheskey :ahee:

provides the width. It will not work with Carragher.

Tbh if Torres is out I think you'd be best going 4-4-2 with N'Gog and Kuyt up front and Gerrard on the right. I wouldn't trust any of the other strikers to lead the line by themselves. Of course Stevie G would have a hissy fit and would get his way, considering he's more respected than Woy.

Reply 1992

T.Adams VI

Jeppasloth

Funny that. A week ago Barry managed something your midfield has failed to do for a while and turned up against Chelsea.

Barry is extra-ordinarily average.

Wilshere turned up. Song refused to do his role, and this season has compared himself to Zidane.

Diaby is useless.

Had Fabregas been playing it would have been a different story.

Reply 1993

Kevmeister

9

What does Dalglish do at 'Pool?

If the buck stopped with Benitez then, in due course, it has to do so with Hodgson. He should be given more time, imo, as in two/three more games. I don't think there should be snap judgements based on the Merseyside derby, given the uniqueness of the fixture. Apparently Roy brought none of his own staff in, that could be part of the problem....

Reply 1994

white_haired_wizard

Kevmeister

What does Dalglish do at 'Pool?

If the buck stopped with Benitez then, in due course, it has to do so with Hodgson. He should be given more time, imo, as in two/three more games. I don't think there should be snap judgements based on the Merseyside derby, given the uniqueness of the fixture. Apparently Roy brought none of his own staff in, that could be part of the problem....

Could be a mistake really. When you have the success Hodgson had at Fulham, surely it would have made sense to stick to the same (winning) formula at Liverpool and bring with him his own backroom staff?

Hodgson has got rid of some dead wood at Liverpool in terms of playing personnel, maybe he needs to have done the same with regard to non-playing staff, e.g. to get rid of the Benitez disease that came to increasingly infect the club.

Hodgson should be given more time but the result against Blackpool really was abysmal. Just wonder about the dressing room, whether there are trouble-makers, players with the wrong mentality and attitude who simply should not be playing for Liverpool, not only with a bad mentality but who are simply not good enough to be playing for them.

Reply 1995

DontBuyTheSun

12

Kevmeister

What does Dalglish do at 'Pool?

If the buck stopped with Benitez then, in due course, it has to do so with Hodgson. He should be given more time, imo, as in two/three more games. I don't think there should be snap judgements based on the Merseyside derby, given the uniqueness of the fixture. Apparently Roy brought none of his own staff in, that could be part of the problem....

He links up between the academy and first team I believe.

If we get beat in the derby, there is no other action but for him to walk. Simple.

Reply 1996

ChrisWilliams

6

white_haired_wizard

Hodgson has got rid of some dead wood at Liverpool in terms of playing personnel, maybe he needs to have done the same with regard to non-playing staff, e.g. to get rid of the Benitez disease that came to increasingly infect the club.

Hodgson should be given more time but the result against Blackpool really was abysmal. Just wonder about the dressing room, whether there are trouble-makers, players with the wrong mentality and attitude who simply should not be playing for Liverpool, not only with a bad mentality but who are simply not good enough to be playing for them.

Hodgson didn't sell anyone, Purslow did all the selling...your point about the dressing room is very valid though, which is why bringing in Dalglish is the only answer. If there are people in the dressing room that think they are above Hodgson, and I know that there definitely were 2 or 3 who thought that of Rafa, there is no way in the world they can think they are above Kenny Dalglish. They'd be absolutely slaughtered by the fans, their reputations as Liverpool greats would be dissolved and they wouldn't be welcome back to Anfield by anyone if they treated Kenny they same way they treated Rafa.

Also, I bring good news :smile:

BBC's Dan Roan on Twitter:

“@danroan: Have it on good authority RBS will NOT refinance Hicks&Gillett-so LFC are about 2 become state-owned unless TH finds £ elsewhere-we'll see”

So, unless some other bank gives them the cash in the next 10 days or so we'll become state owned by RBS and the Yanks will have gone. It's close folks, VERY close :biggrin:

Reply 1997