The Manchester City Society II
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Original post by Zürich
Historically speaking but they missed the elevator in the PL era and their revenues, hence their ability to compete longer term, are 4th highest in England. Hard to group them with Utd given that huge differences there.
Who would you say ability to compete longer term are higher.
I assume 3 would include United, Arsenal and Chelsea, but surely City should be included here?
Original post by jam277
Who would you say ability to compete longer term are higher.
I assume 3 would include United, Arsenal and Chelsea, but surely City should be included here?
I assume 3 would include United, Arsenal and Chelsea, but surely City should be included here?
City are a special case because they are funded by the sheiks, you assume theyll blow another £100m in the summer. Chelsea now to a lesser degree as you look to be more self funded but you also have that ability to find £50m outside of revenues now and again. Your revenues fluctuate because you tend to bag lots of CL prize money, but I expect AFC/CFC to be roughly equal with our new Puma/Emirates deals this season. Without CL prize money differences I think we'd be about £20m ahead on revenues but as I say that's more than covered by Roman.
Arsenal v LFC is a strange one. Even with CL qualification for both, AFC's revenues will be a good £30m ahead this season according to the Swiss Ramble(maybe more, not sure how much the FA Cup is worth). It's not much and Rodgers is a more effective manager than Wenger atm anyway, but longer term you'd expect £30m/year to be significant.
If you think about what Utd could do to this league if they fully utilised their revenues then it's absolutely terrifying. They are so far over the hills that we're all just lucky the Glazers have robbed them dry and that they have Moysie in now
So it goes
Utd/City
Chelsea
Arsenal
Liverpool
---
huge gap to the likes of Spurs
in terms of ability to compete financially
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Zürich
City are a special case because they are funded by the sheiks, you assume theyll blow another £100m in the summer. Chelsea now to a lesser degree as you look to be more self funded but you also have that ability to find £50m outside of revenues now and again. Your revenues fluctuate because you tend to bag lots of CL prize money, but I expect AFC/CFC to be roughly equal with our new Puma/Emirates deals this season.
Arsenal v LFC is a strange one. Even with CL qualification for both, AFC's revenues will be a good £30m ahead this season according to the Swiss Ramble(maybe more, not sure how much the FA Cup is worth). It's not much and Rodgers is a more effective manager than Wenger atm anyway, but longer term you'd expect £30m/year to be significant.
If you think about what Utd could do to this league if they fully utilised their revenues then it's absolutely terrifying. They are so far over the hills that we're all just lucky the Glazers have robbed them dry and that they have Moysie in now
So it goes
Utd/City
Chelsea
Arsenal
Liverpool
---
huge gap
in terms of ability to compete
Arsenal v LFC is a strange one. Even with CL qualification for both, AFC's revenues will be a good £30m ahead this season according to the Swiss Ramble(maybe more, not sure how much the FA Cup is worth). It's not much and Rodgers is a more effective manager than Wenger atm anyway, but longer term you'd expect £30m/year to be significant.
If you think about what Utd could do to this league if they fully utilised their revenues then it's absolutely terrifying. They are so far over the hills that we're all just lucky the Glazers have robbed them dry and that they have Moysie in now
So it goes
Utd/City
Chelsea
Arsenal
Liverpool
---
huge gap
in terms of ability to compete
Purslow said himself that essentially there are 5 teams competing for 4 spots, meaning somebody will have to miss out.
United could have so easily become Bayern Munich MkII. Hopefully Moyes ****s up another season and they start to lose fans and deals. But I think that despite probably missing CL this season, Woodward has worked well and secured many long term deals. They will need to spend loads of money under Moyes before they win the league though.
We're talking above 100m but I think that the Glazers know that they have to spend money otherwise they will lose value in their stock. I don't know the figures too much, but thank God United's dominance wasn't as bad as it could have been.
Peak on Spurs though, them guys missed their chance to get CL football the past 2 seasons, it's all over for them tbh.
Original post by jam277
Purslow said himself that essentially there are 5 teams competing for 4 spots, meaning somebody will have to miss out.
United could have so easily become Bayern Munich MkII. Hopefully Moyes ****s up another season and they start to lose fans and deals. But I think that despite probably missing CL this season, Woodward has worked well and secured many long term deals. They will need to spend loads of money under Moyes before they win the league though.
We're talking above 100m but I think that the Glazers know that they have to spend money otherwise they will lose value in their stock. I don't know the figures too much, but thank God United's dominance wasn't as bad as it could have been.
Peak on Spurs though, them guys missed their chance to get CL football the past 2 seasons, it's all over for them tbh.
United could have so easily become Bayern Munich MkII. Hopefully Moyes ****s up another season and they start to lose fans and deals. But I think that despite probably missing CL this season, Woodward has worked well and secured many long term deals. They will need to spend loads of money under Moyes before they win the league though.
We're talking above 100m but I think that the Glazers know that they have to spend money otherwise they will lose value in their stock. I don't know the figures too much, but thank God United's dominance wasn't as bad as it could have been.
Peak on Spurs though, them guys missed their chance to get CL football the past 2 seasons, it's all over for them tbh.
Yeah in terms of top4, Arsenal have been lucky in that City's rise coincided with LFC's fall and then their rise coincided with Utd's fall tbh. In the middle Spurs were neither here nor there, flirted with top4 status whilst managing to **** it up every time. Spurs are comically mismanaged, lose £40m on the CL, sell the only player who could take you there and spunk the proceeds on a lucky bag of continental big club rejects with no sell on value. They have some very good players though imo and there is huge room for improvement, but they missed a once in a lifetime chance to push on since 2010.Always been the same way at Spurs though, delusions of grandeur.
Need Moyes to stay at least another season tbh, I would be amazed if they get top 4 next season unless they make smart moves in the transfer market. But they're just panic buying players they dont even need like Mata. They have some world class players but no spine to the team anymore I guess and that's always harder to fix in 1 transfer window. If they blow £100m in the summer and still dont get CL, then I dont know if the Glazers will reload or just tell the new manager to work with it.
CL money is a drop in the ocean to Utd, but longer term if the prestige of the club is hit then they'll suffer a bit. As you say they're still signing deal after deal. Thing about the glazers though is that they'll spent to get back into the CL to protect themselves, but theyre in it for the dollah so I dont think they'll try and bully the league like Bayern long term
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by jam277
Na man.
Inter should be with AC Milan and Juve who should also be above United. It's because they're not in a good moment but AC have way more CL trophies than United and were a big dog in the mid 90s and early 2000s.
Liverpool are equal with United if I'm being honest as a big club.
Inter should be with AC Milan and Juve who should also be above United. It's because they're not in a good moment but AC have way more CL trophies than United and were a big dog in the mid 90s and early 2000s.
Liverpool are equal with United if I'm being honest as a big club.
You do know that Inter are basically that ubiquitous Italian failure nearly team. They're not up there with AC.
Original post by 419
You do know that Inter are basically that ubiquitous Italian failure nearly team. They're not up there with AC.
They're around United in terms of success, I agree they're under AC Milan.
Inter have 18 league titles, 3 Champions leagues and 7 Coppa italias.
AC have way more CLs but I don't think United are above Inter Milan historically. Milan, Juve, Bayern, Barca and Madrid are all above United historically I mean.
The problem United will face is an identity crisis. Can they realistically transition to a footballing club from Ferguson's very effective brand of kick and rush?
Not with David Moyes, that goes without saying.
Even beyond that it looks fairly grim- Fellaini, Van Persie, Valencia, Young etc their latest big money buys are certainly not going to slot into that system. Their big hopes like Welbeck, Jones, Cleverley aren't of that brand. Maybe Jones could slot in at the back and Cleverley/Welbeck play bit part roles.
Realistically the defence could manage but they're going to need to buy an entirely new attacking line up to fit around Januzaj and Mata. Neither of which is a particularly pure footballer. That's going to be a very painful transition to make and will take more than 2 seasons at least. They could very well not get back into the CL next year, although I suspect Liverpool will struggle- they've only played 39 games this season to City's 52 and Chelsea's 51.
Similarly Arsenal will have to transition from Wenger's style, which will admittedly be far easier by just bringing in a continental manager, but there will be teething problems.
Imo, right now, the next few season's are City and Chelsea's, and from then on it's anyone's game but Arsenal, United and Liverpool hold financial dominance. It's a very very exciting time for PL.
Not with David Moyes, that goes without saying.
Even beyond that it looks fairly grim- Fellaini, Van Persie, Valencia, Young etc their latest big money buys are certainly not going to slot into that system. Their big hopes like Welbeck, Jones, Cleverley aren't of that brand. Maybe Jones could slot in at the back and Cleverley/Welbeck play bit part roles.
Realistically the defence could manage but they're going to need to buy an entirely new attacking line up to fit around Januzaj and Mata. Neither of which is a particularly pure footballer. That's going to be a very painful transition to make and will take more than 2 seasons at least. They could very well not get back into the CL next year, although I suspect Liverpool will struggle- they've only played 39 games this season to City's 52 and Chelsea's 51.
Similarly Arsenal will have to transition from Wenger's style, which will admittedly be far easier by just bringing in a continental manager, but there will be teething problems.
Imo, right now, the next few season's are City and Chelsea's, and from then on it's anyone's game but Arsenal, United and Liverpool hold financial dominance. It's a very very exciting time for PL.
(edited 10 years ago)
Baines and Jagielka may not be playing tomorrow, and Silva is back meaning Toure, Aguero, Kompany and Yaya will all be on the field at the same time tomorrow which is a rarity.
Original post by DavidSilvaMCFC
Baines and Jagielka may not be playing tomorrow, and Silva is back meaning Toure, Aguero, Kompany and Yaya will all be on the field at the same time tomorrow which is a rarity.
Jesus Christ, you're gonna destroy them.
Thanks for nothing Everton -_-
Ahhh well, gutted we probably won't get it, but I suppose as long as Mourinho has a trophyless season, I'll feel a little better.
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Original post by Luke_Mckeown
Jesus Christ, you're gonna destroy them.
Thanks for nothing Everton -_-
Ahhh well, gutted we probably won't get it, but I suppose as long as Mourinho has a trophyless season, I'll feel a little better.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Thanks for nothing Everton -_-
Ahhh well, gutted we probably won't get it, but I suppose as long as Mourinho has a trophyless season, I'll feel a little better.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Man up.
It'll be a tight well fought game and that's that. There'll be no destroying, no bending over etc.
Original post by holyghostofslick
Man up.
It'll be a tight well fought game and that's that. There'll be no destroying, no bending over etc.
It'll be a tight well fought game and that's that. There'll be no destroying, no bending over etc.
You might be surprised.
Teams can change drastically when they have nothing to fight for.
I'm not sure if Everton believe they can still get too 4 or not.
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Original post by Medicine Boy
It's frankly embarrassing that for all our money we have 1PL, 1FA cup and capital one cup
Shows how big united are, we'll always, always be fully immersed in their shadow. 20Pl's, 3 champions league, jeez we'll never get close
Shows how big united are, we'll always, always be fully immersed in their shadow. 20Pl's, 3 champions league, jeez we'll never get close
It is always an interesting dilemma at City. I mean when Mancini won the league in 2012 and the FA Cup in 2011 do congratulate him or do you just say well you met expectation?
And Pellegrini this season. After you beat Spurs 5-1 at WHL I thought you'd win at least three trophies. If he delivers just the Carling Cup, is that good enough?
Anyway. I'm a Manchester United fan. I accept Manchester City are a big club. You've been much better than us all season. This weekend, we're all Cityzens. Good luck at Everton.
Original post by Eboracum
It is always an interesting dilemma at City. I mean when Mancini won the league in 2012 and the FA Cup in 2011 do congratulate him or do you just say well you met expectation?
And Pellegrini this season. After you beat Spurs 5-1 at WHL I thought you'd win at least three trophies. If he delivers just the Carling Cup, is that good enough?
Anyway. I'm a Manchester United fan. I accept Manchester City are a big club. You've been much better than us all season. This weekend, we're all Cityzens. Good luck at Everton.
And Pellegrini this season. After you beat Spurs 5-1 at WHL I thought you'd win at least three trophies. If he delivers just the Carling Cup, is that good enough?
Anyway. I'm a Manchester United fan. I accept Manchester City are a big club. You've been much better than us all season. This weekend, we're all Cityzens. Good luck at Everton.
That's a very modest, understanding outlook
I think city have had a dire return for their money.
However with the competitiveness if football now, even unlimited funds can't make trophies a cert
So a league cup and league title would be a success for them in my opinion.
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Original post by jam277
Na man.
Inter should be with AC Milan and Juve who should also be above United. It's because they're not in a good moment but AC have way more CL trophies than United and were a big dog in the mid 90s and early 2000s.
Liverpool are equal with United if I'm being honest as a big club.
Inter should be with AC Milan and Juve who should also be above United. It's because they're not in a good moment but AC have way more CL trophies than United and were a big dog in the mid 90s and early 2000s.
Liverpool are equal with United if I'm being honest as a big club.
This Jam, is absolute nonsense of the highest order. Whilst I'm a heavy critic of Manchester United on the pitch, the idea that the Milan clubs, Juventus or Liverpool are the same size or bigger than United is just ridiculous. You can quite easily make the argument that United are a bigger club than Barcelona and Bayern, perhaps only matched by Real Madrid. When you think of market exposure, worldwide fan base, commercial revenues, those clubs just aren't even close. If teams were allowed to negotiate their own tv deals in the Premier League, one analysis I heard was that United would make more than the other 19 teams combined. I'd go as far as saying United are twice as big as Inter Milan and Juventus and are significantly bigger than Liverpool.
Original post by Eboracum
This Jam, is absolute nonsense of the highest order. Whilst I'm a heavy critic of Manchester United on the pitch, the idea that the Milan clubs, Juventus or Liverpool are the same size or bigger than United is just ridiculous. You can quite easily make the argument that United are a bigger club than Barcelona and Bayern, perhaps only matched by Real Madrid. When you think of market exposure, worldwide fan base, commercial revenues, those clubs just aren't even close. If teams were allowed to negotiate their own tv deals in the Premier League, one analysis I heard was that United would make more than the other 19 teams combined. I'd go as far as saying United are twice as big as Inter Milan and Juventus and are significantly bigger than Liverpool.
I'm talking about on the pitch.
Unless you think that football started in 1993 and the only thing that factors into things are market exposure. Because then Chelsea are as big a club as Arsenal. Which ain't true as much as I hate to say it.
Original post by jam277
I'm talking about on the pitch.
Unless you think that football started in 1993 and the only thing that factors into things are market exposure. Because then Chelsea are as big a club as Arsenal. Which ain't true as much as I hate to say it.
Unless you think that football started in 1993 and the only thing that factors into things are market exposure. Because then Chelsea are as big a club as Arsenal. Which ain't true as much as I hate to say it.
You should look both on and off the pitch
but even on the pitch united are more successful than inter/juventus because unlike the other 2 we have the most league titles in our country + neither has any more european cups than us.
Off the pitch united blows every club other than maybe madrid and barcelona out of the water.
Right now United, Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern are the elite of the elite football clubs when all factors are considered
followed by the second tier of big clubs: dortmund, juventus, liverpool, arsenal, chelsea, psg, AC Milan, athletico madrid
Original post by Medicine Boy
You should look both on and off the pitch
but even on the pitch united are more successful than inter/juventus because unlike the other 2 we have the most league titles in our country + neither has any more european cups than us.
Off the pitch united blows every club other than maybe madrid and barcelona out of the water.
Right now United, Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern are the elite of the elite football clubs when all factors are considered
followed by the second tier of big clubs: dortmund, juventus, liverpool, arsenal, chelsea, psg, AC Milan, athletico madrid
but even on the pitch united are more successful than inter/juventus because unlike the other 2 we have the most league titles in our country + neither has any more european cups than us.
Off the pitch united blows every club other than maybe madrid and barcelona out of the water.
Right now United, Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern are the elite of the elite football clubs when all factors are considered
followed by the second tier of big clubs: dortmund, juventus, liverpool, arsenal, chelsea, psg, AC Milan, athletico madrid
Lol, United have more titles than Juve. It's clear you don't know anything about Serie A. They have 29 titles, United have 20. Juve have 2 european cups compared to United's 3.
Inter have 3 european cups and 18 titles. United have 2 more league titles which is nothing really in the grand scheme of things. Milan blow you out the water because of the sheer amount of european cups they have as well.
Liverpool have 5 european cups and 18 titles. Most people value a european cup over a league title anyway.
So yeah, talk to me when you actually have an understanding of football, when you are no longer chatting out of your arse and when you realise that football didn't start in 1993.
Also you're a global brand and represent england, but that doesn't mean you touch Bayern, Madrid, Barca. Historically they're better teams than you and for Madrid and Barca are just as big a brand as United.
Come on City!!
MCFC since '05
MCFC since '05
Original post by jam277
Lol, United have more titles than Juve. It's clear you don't know anything about Serie A. They have 29 titles, United have 20. Juve have 2 european cups compared to United's 3.
Inter have 3 european cups and 18 titles. United have 2 more league titles which is nothing really in the grand scheme of things. Milan blow you out the water because of the sheer amount of european cups they have as well.
Liverpool have 5 european cups and 18 titles. Most people value a european cup over a league title anyway.
So yeah, talk to me when you actually have an understanding of football, when you are no longer chatting out of your arse and when you realise that football didn't start in 1993.
Also you're a global brand and represent england, but that doesn't mean you touch Bayern, Madrid, Barca. Historically they're better teams than you and for Madrid and Barca are just as big a brand as United.
Inter have 3 european cups and 18 titles. United have 2 more league titles which is nothing really in the grand scheme of things. Milan blow you out the water because of the sheer amount of european cups they have as well.
Liverpool have 5 european cups and 18 titles. Most people value a european cup over a league title anyway.
So yeah, talk to me when you actually have an understanding of football, when you are no longer chatting out of your arse and when you realise that football didn't start in 1993.
Also you're a global brand and represent england, but that doesn't mean you touch Bayern, Madrid, Barca. Historically they're better teams than you and for Madrid and Barca are just as big a brand as United.
What matters, for me, is how many league titles a team has won compared to the rest in their country.
united have won leagues than any club in england, inter/juve haven't: some leagues are more competitive than others.
Celtic have won more league titles than united, doesn't make them bigger.
I agree regarding AC Milan, they are a massive club but they are in dire shape financially and it'll be a while before they can attract big players again. United will be back next season...
Barca have won 1 more CL so hardly blow united out the water.
I've tried to make valid points here without reducing myself to your level of insulting a stranger based on a difference in opinion
Original post by Medicine Boy
What matters, for me, is how many league titles a team has won compared to the rest in their country.
united have won leagues than any club in england, inter/juve haven't: some leagues are more competitive than others.
Celtic have won more league titles than united, doesn't make them bigger.
I agree regarding AC Milan, they are a massive club but they are in dire shape financially and it'll be a while before they can attract big players again. United will be back next season...
Barca have won 1 more CL so hardly blow united out the water.
I've tried to make valid points here without reducing myself to your level of insulting a stranger based on a difference in opinion
united have won leagues than any club in england, inter/juve haven't: some leagues are more competitive than others.
Celtic have won more league titles than united, doesn't make them bigger.
I agree regarding AC Milan, they are a massive club but they are in dire shape financially and it'll be a while before they can attract big players again. United will be back next season...
Barca have won 1 more CL so hardly blow united out the water.
I've tried to make valid points here without reducing myself to your level of insulting a stranger based on a difference in opinion
Ok, so then Juve have 29 league titles compared to 18 for Milan and 18 for Inter? What is your point for the first bit when Juve clearly have way more league titles than the rest. They're probably as big as milan
Barcelona have 22 titles. United have 20 as well. So they beat you as well there.
I don't get why you're discounting the Italian clubs when really they're just as big. In the 90s and early 2000s they were easily bigger clubs than United as well. I'd say that Serie A has stagnated, but historically they're as big as United trophy wise.
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