Will a masters or phd overwrite a 2:2 and improve employabiity
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Original post by thisismycatch22
It won't erase it but you will be on much better grounds, at least in scientific careers. That said, if you have a 2:2 most PhD programs won't let you on in the first place...
I meant getting a masters first
Original post by da_comeback
I meant getting a masters first
Not sure that will overwrite a 2:2 for getting onto PhD programs. You should probably ask around first.
It's not going to change your grade in any way, shape or form but as long as you do well in you masters/PHD it's the latest thing you've done that they look at first and which should appear first on your CV so it would look rather impressive. Good luck 
I wish people would realise that postgraduate education isn't for 'overwriting' lazy/****ty performances at undergraduate.
OP: could you cope with Masters-level study? I'm not trying to put you down, it's a genuine question. If you put in little effort and got a 2.2 then, you may be able to cope, but if you worked your **** off and got a 2.2, then you may struggle.
Disclaimer: I haven't studied at Masters level, but am basing the above on my undergrad experience.
Disclaimer: I haven't studied at Masters level, but am basing the above on my undergrad experience.
Original post by Owly
OP: could you cope with Masters-level study? I'm not trying to put you down, it's a genuine question. If you put in little effort and got a 2.2 then, you may be able to cope, but if you worked your **** off and got a 2.2, then you may struggle.
Disclaimer: I haven't studied at Masters level, but am basing the above on my undergrad experience.
Disclaimer: I haven't studied at Masters level, but am basing the above on my undergrad experience.
Well I had a lot of mitigation that effected my undegraduate performance and when I say a lot..I mean A LOT...Im going to take a couple of years out to get that sorted out and then come back to education..
I got a 2:2 at UG and went on to do my Masters. My ambition is to go on and do a PhD (in a few years - definitely can't afford it now!).
I have found doing my MSc extremely tough. It's different to my UG in that it is more finance based (I suck at finance... I was expecting more accounting, which I am better at!), but the sheer workload is about twice as much as a total UG in one year. I also had a lot of mitigating circumstances at my UG, so I thought that it might explain my worse-than-expected performance at UG and I would cope at MSc level.
If you got a 2:2 I honestly can't say I recommend going on to your Masters, especially if it is vocational (like mine - getting some experience would probably have helped me), at least not yet. I would have left it a good few years, definitely until I had completed my professional qualifications. If I had my life to live over, I probably wouldn't do it again. Make sure you know what your reasons for doing your Masters and PhD. are before making this kind of decision. You can always do it later.
Also take into consideration that whatever you do, you still have a 2:2! It doesn't magically wipe it away.
I have found doing my MSc extremely tough. It's different to my UG in that it is more finance based (I suck at finance... I was expecting more accounting, which I am better at!), but the sheer workload is about twice as much as a total UG in one year. I also had a lot of mitigating circumstances at my UG, so I thought that it might explain my worse-than-expected performance at UG and I would cope at MSc level.
If you got a 2:2 I honestly can't say I recommend going on to your Masters, especially if it is vocational (like mine - getting some experience would probably have helped me), at least not yet. I would have left it a good few years, definitely until I had completed my professional qualifications. If I had my life to live over, I probably wouldn't do it again. Make sure you know what your reasons for doing your Masters and PhD. are before making this kind of decision. You can always do it later.
Also take into consideration that whatever you do, you still have a 2:2! It doesn't magically wipe it away.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by da_comeback
Well I had a lot of mitigation that effected my undegraduate performance and when I say a lot..I mean A LOT...Im going to take a couple of years out to get that sorted out and then come back to education..
That's a sensible idea. Hope you can get everything sorted out and good luck
Unlikely, essentially having a Masters and PhD other than if you're going into academics would be even worse for you than having a 2:2 when it comes to job prospects.
Whenever I see a CV with any type of Masters especially if it is a "soft" Masters, that CV goes straight into the bin if the person doesn't have any working experience behind that Masters.... generally the case with vast majority of employers, simply because having too many qualifications may simply render you good at academics but nothing else. It is very unlikely any entry-level grad job requires a PhD and it is very very unlikely other than in the field of academics that there are any positions where a PhD is required without any working experience.
Whenever I see a CV with any type of Masters especially if it is a "soft" Masters, that CV goes straight into the bin if the person doesn't have any working experience behind that Masters.... generally the case with vast majority of employers, simply because having too many qualifications may simply render you good at academics but nothing else. It is very unlikely any entry-level grad job requires a PhD and it is very very unlikely other than in the field of academics that there are any positions where a PhD is required without any working experience.
Original post by Ice_Queen
I got a 2:2 at UG and went on to do my Masters. My ambition is to go on and do a PhD (in a few years - definitely can't afford it now!).
I have found doing my MSc extremely tough. It's different to my UG in that it is more finance based (I suck at finance... I was expecting more accounting, which I am better at!), but the sheer workload is about twice as much as a total UG in one year. I also had a lot of mitigating circumstances at my UG, so I thought that it might explain my worse-than-expected performance at UG and I would cope at MSc level.
If you got a 2:2 I honestly can't say I recommend going on to your Masters, especially if it is vocational (like mine - getting some experience would probably have helped me), at least not yet. I would have left it a good few years, definitely until I had completed my professional qualifications. If I had my life to live over, I probably wouldn't do it again. Make sure you know what your reasons for doing your Masters and PhD. are before making this kind of decision. You can always do it later.
Also take into consideration that whatever you do, you still have a 2:2! It doesn't magically wipe it away.
I have found doing my MSc extremely tough. It's different to my UG in that it is more finance based (I suck at finance... I was expecting more accounting, which I am better at!), but the sheer workload is about twice as much as a total UG in one year. I also had a lot of mitigating circumstances at my UG, so I thought that it might explain my worse-than-expected performance at UG and I would cope at MSc level.
If you got a 2:2 I honestly can't say I recommend going on to your Masters, especially if it is vocational (like mine - getting some experience would probably have helped me), at least not yet. I would have left it a good few years, definitely until I had completed my professional qualifications. If I had my life to live over, I probably wouldn't do it again. Make sure you know what your reasons for doing your Masters and PhD. are before making this kind of decision. You can always do it later.
Also take into consideration that whatever you do, you still have a 2:2! It doesn't magically wipe it away.
Best of luck
My 2.2 has not stopped me from completing MScs and a PhD , but I agree, the 2.2 will always be there 
Original post by Erich Hartmann
Unlikely, essentially having a Masters and PhD other than if you're going into academics would be even worse for you than having a 2:2 when it comes to job prospects.
Whenever I see a CV with any type of Masters especially if it is a "soft" Masters, that CV goes straight into the bin if the person doesn't have any working experience behind that Masters.... generally the case with vast majority of employers, simply because having too many qualifications may simply render you good at academics but nothing else. It is very unlikely any entry-level grad job requires a PhD and it is very very unlikely other than in the field of academics that there are any positions where a PhD is required without any working experience.
Whenever I see a CV with any type of Masters especially if it is a "soft" Masters, that CV goes straight into the bin if the person doesn't have any working experience behind that Masters.... generally the case with vast majority of employers, simply because having too many qualifications may simply render you good at academics but nothing else. It is very unlikely any entry-level grad job requires a PhD and it is very very unlikely other than in the field of academics that there are any positions where a PhD is required without any working experience.
If the Masters is extremely vocational, and builds on the UG, what would you do? My Masters has given me a financial and quantitative background to go with my accounting UG (the titles being BA(Hons) Accountancy and MSc Accounting & Financial Management), so though I don't have much relevant work experience, I do have more depth than most of my peers.
I'm not sure what you count as a 'soft' Masters, either?
(Sorry to hijack!)
Original post by Ice_Queen
If the Masters is extremely vocational, and builds on the UG, what would you do? My Masters has given me a financial and quantitative background to go with my accounting UG (the titles being BA(Hons) Accountancy and MSc Accounting & Financial Management), so though I don't have much relevant work experience, I do have more depth than most of my peers.
I'm not sure what you count as a 'soft' Masters, either?
(Sorry to hijack!)
I'm not sure what you count as a 'soft' Masters, either?
(Sorry to hijack!)
A soft MBA is one that would let someone without any management experience into the program.
Other 'soft' Masters :-
1) No professional accreditation.
2) Fairly low entry standards..... if you had a 3rd and you were accepted into it...then it is soft.
3) The uni that is issuing the Masters, this one doesn't need to be explained.
4) No dissertation or research aspect into it.
5) Taught Masters but no exams at all.
What do I do? Usually in the bin it goes, when I hire someone usually I already have in my mind the exact person I'm looking for and if I specified that I wanted a 2:1 in a certain degree or field, I'm not looking for someone other than that because that's how much I've budgeted for.
Even if it appears to be a very vocational qualification and happens to build on from knowledge gained from the degree, it's rarely ever sufficient to put you beyond a graduate trainee with just a good degree.
Reasoning for not looking for someone beyond what I originally specified for :-
1) Cost...... if you have a Masters chances are if you are as good as you claim I may have to end up paying you more in the near term.
2) Suitability.... if I take in a grad, I expect the person to be a fresh piece of clean paper, I can train him/her up for the best fit for the positions I want this person to do. Having a Masters may alter this a little as you may have some pre-conceived ideas on how things should be...... hence I don't want to waste my time telling you not to do it that way but follow what I had trained you to do.
3) Perceived Loyalty, you may be wanting to work for the long term, but when I have to make the decision to hire you or not I will have to take into account how likely will it be the case that I hire you, train you up and jump ship on the basis you have a Masters that may be appreciated elsewhere. Remember for me to hire someone again will cost my company money and time.
Original post by Erich Hartmann
A soft MBA is one that would let someone without any management experience into the program.
Other 'soft' Masters :-
1) No professional accreditation.
2) Fairly low entry standards..... if you had a 3rd and you were accepted into it...then it is soft.
3) The uni that is issuing the Masters, this one doesn't need to be explained.
4) No dissertation or research aspect into it.
5) Taught Masters but no exams at all.
What do I do? Usually in the bin it goes, when I hire someone usually I already have in my mind the exact person I'm looking for and if I specified that I wanted a 2:1 in a certain degree or field, I'm not looking for someone other than that because that's how much I've budgeted for.
Even if it appears to be a very vocational qualification and happens to build on from knowledge gained from the degree, it's rarely ever sufficient to put you beyond a graduate trainee with just a good degree.
Reasoning for not looking for someone beyond what I originally specified for :-
1) Cost...... if you have a Masters chances are if you are as good as you claim I may have to end up paying you more in the near term.
2) Suitability.... if I take in a grad, I expect the person to be a fresh piece of clean paper, I can train him/her up for the best fit for the positions I want this person to do. Having a Masters may alter this a little as you may have some pre-conceived ideas on how things should be...... hence I don't want to waste my time telling you not to do it that way but follow what I had trained you to do.
3) Perceived Loyalty, you may be wanting to work for the long term, but when I have to make the decision to hire you or not I will have to take into account how likely will it be the case that I hire you, train you up and jump ship on the basis you have a Masters that may be appreciated elsewhere. Remember for me to hire someone again will cost my company money and time.
Other 'soft' Masters :-
1) No professional accreditation.
2) Fairly low entry standards..... if you had a 3rd and you were accepted into it...then it is soft.
3) The uni that is issuing the Masters, this one doesn't need to be explained.
4) No dissertation or research aspect into it.
5) Taught Masters but no exams at all.
What do I do? Usually in the bin it goes, when I hire someone usually I already have in my mind the exact person I'm looking for and if I specified that I wanted a 2:1 in a certain degree or field, I'm not looking for someone other than that because that's how much I've budgeted for.
Even if it appears to be a very vocational qualification and happens to build on from knowledge gained from the degree, it's rarely ever sufficient to put you beyond a graduate trainee with just a good degree.
Reasoning for not looking for someone beyond what I originally specified for :-
1) Cost...... if you have a Masters chances are if you are as good as you claim I may have to end up paying you more in the near term.
2) Suitability.... if I take in a grad, I expect the person to be a fresh piece of clean paper, I can train him/her up for the best fit for the positions I want this person to do. Having a Masters may alter this a little as you may have some pre-conceived ideas on how things should be...... hence I don't want to waste my time telling you not to do it that way but follow what I had trained you to do.
3) Perceived Loyalty, you may be wanting to work for the long term, but when I have to make the decision to hire you or not I will have to take into account how likely will it be the case that I hire you, train you up and jump ship on the basis you have a Masters that may be appreciated elsewhere. Remember for me to hire someone again will cost my company money and time.
That is absolute arse.
1) No professional accreditation: The vast majority of very hard core masters dont have accreditation. Most economics masters dont, and the majority of LSE masters dont. That's ridiculous to call them soft.
2) Fairly low entry standards..... if you had a 3rd and you were accepted into it...then it is soft.
3) The uni that is issuing the Masters, this one doesn't need to be explained: Complete rubbish. A lot of accredited masters can only be done at specific places, and often ex-polys because they have very specific departments that cater for certain qualifications. My accredited masters comes from a 'less good' place, but anyone within the profession would know its one of the best places in the country.
4) No dissertation or research aspect into it: to the best of my knowledge and a brief search, for a masters to be a masters it has to have a dissertation/extended project (depending on subject). If not its a PGDip.
5) Taught Masters but no exams at all. Depends whether exams are at all relevent. For a lot of professions they aren't, at all. I had one in my entire masters, and it was largely irrelevant and could have been assessed better in other ways.
And wow, if you only employ people who dont have a masters in case they have 'preconceived ideas of how to do things' you must miss out on a hell of a lot of talent. This goes against the wisdom of every single professional person, adviser and interviewer Ive ever met. If you are worried that other companies will appreciate a masters more than you and people will leave, its probably you thats missing the point here.
Oh, and I did used to interview and recommend people for internships/employment. Im not just spouting rubbish.
(edited 12 years ago)
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