D&D Theology's "Ask About Islam" Thread Mk. IV

Thanks I understand it. There are 4 main imams with subtle differences in Sunni. Where as Shia imams were the direct descendants of the prophet.
So the imams today in mosque are only there to lead the prayers, preach, etc. Confusion cleared

Great!

Sorry if i caused any initial confusion at all. The purpose of putting that graph up was to try and give you a visual basic difference.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask, and any of us will answer if we can.

Just to add, there are and have always been methods to unite shia's and sunnis'. We both believe in one God, one Quran , all the prophets pbuh, prayers, hajj, fasting, paying zakat.

I would definitely lean towards the 'twelvers' and i have family who are sunni's (a number) of them.

The people inciting shia-sunni hatred are extremists.

Yes its sad when people don't realise they are two sides of one coin. Extremist will always try to bring hatred.

Can someone explain what this verse means? Is it referring to Allah's perception of time, or some other, objective frame of reference?

It make sense with Einsteins theory of relativity.

The angels (made of light) takes only a day but to our measure it'll be a long time past.

It does not refer to Allah's perception of time. That's absurd to think. He created time so its at His command.

I dunno, better read the other translations too.

Here is another verse that makes it clearer:
[Quran 32.5] (Allah) Rules the cosmic affair from
the heavens to the Earth. Then this affair travels
to Him a distance in one day, at a measure of
one thousand years of what you count.

www.speed-light.info/relativity_quran.htm

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Just a note on the 'descendants of the Prophet Muhammad' issue, a proper study of lineages has shown that around 90% of the descendants are Sunni. Sunni Muslims are required to respect the descendants also, but do not regard any of them to be 'infallible' or to be guaranteed political or religious rule.

x.

Can someone explain what this verse means? Is it referring to Allah's perception of time, or some other, objective frame of reference?

The wives of Muhammed pbuh are not the ahlulbayt referred to in the Quran and the ones we must follow.. This is proven when the wife of the prophet asks if she can join them under the cloak:

x

Assalamualakum,

Relating to the earlier posts regarding Sunni and Shia;
I would like to know the differences between these two.
I had been told that Shias do not believe in the last prophet?


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No, both believe in the last Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم.

Shias have different ahadeeth collections, engage in some different practices, do some things differently, and give more importance to the Ahlul-bayt. Sunnis give importance to and respect the Ahlul-bayt too, we just give more importance to the Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم.

Shias also don't follow some of the Sahaba as much.

(^A Sunni's point of view, I don't really know much of the details of Shia belief)


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Assalamualakum,

Relating to the earlier posts regarding Sunni and Shia;
I would like to know the differences between these two.
I had been told that Shias do not believe in the last prophet?


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Sunnis give importance to and respect the Ahlul-bayt too, we just give more importance to the Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم.

Shias also don't follow some of the Sahaba as much.

I would say i am from the school of thought of the ahlulbayt, or, someone who is a jafferi(i.e ithnasherite). I would kindly like to address one or two misconceptions here.

The overwhelming majority of shia's are twelvers - who believe in twelve Imams after Muhammed pbuh.

Here is what we believe:

1. Muhammed pbuh, without a doubt, is far greater than any of the Imams.
2. We want to adhere to the teachings of Muhammed pbuh only, and hence, we use the means through which we believe his sunnah was best preserved - the selected members of his ahlulbayt.
3. We shia's do not consider every single companion as perfect, we love the companions who were loyal to muhammed pbuh, both before and after his death, who did not mistreat selected members of his ahlulbayt, and so on and so forth.
4. For instance, we have reports from some companions from our brothers/sisters in the ahle sunnah who say Allah swt has a shin/face - but not like ours, yet still has a form. In the shia school of thought, we believe God is immaterial, formless there is nothing comparable to him, and he has no confine.
5. Where we split is after the death of Muhammed pbuh. Those from the shia school of thought believe there is overwhelming evidence that Allah swt instructed him to choose Ali a.s. as his succesor among the people. We state that if the holy prophet pbuh could not leave a city without leaving a governer , how could he leave such a large power vacuum without either facilitating a new leader, or having to choose one?

I will elaborate on my post in due course. But to conclude, we follow the sunnah of Muhammed pbuh , and we believe it is best preserved through the selected members of the ahlulbayt. We also love the companions of Muhammd pbuh, but we do not revere them all, and group them as they behaved, and accept hadith from any authentic source.


It is narrated in Sahih Muslim (the second most authentic book in the ahle sunnah) as well as many other sources that the prophet Muhammed pbuh said:

"...O' people! Behold! It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. Behold! I am leaving for you two precious things. First of them is the book of Allah in which there is light and guidance... The other one is my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. (three times).

Sahih Muslim, Chapter of the virtues of the companions, section of the virtues of Ali, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1873, Tradition #36.
(And many other sources)

There is overwhelming evidence that Abu Bakr as siddique was correctly appointed.

Narrated Jubair bin Mutim: A woman came to the Prophet who ordered her to return to him again. She said, "What if I came and did not find you?" as if she wanted to say, "If I found you dead?" The Prophet said, "If you should not find me, go to Abu Bakr."

Also, when the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله was ill and couldn't lead the salah it was Abu Bakr who led.

Also, this Hadith seems to be Prophecy of Khilafa and Allah knows best.

Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "While I was sleeping, I saw myself standing at a well, on it there was a bucket. I drew water from the well as much as Allah wished. Then Ibn Abi Quhafa (i.e. Abu Bakr) took the bucket from me and brought out one or two buckets (of water) and there was weakness in his drawing the water. May Allah forgive his weakness for him. Then the bucket turned into a very big one and Ibn Al-Khattab took it over and I had never seen such a mighty person amongst the people as him in performing such hard work, till the people drank to their satisfaction and watered their camels that knelt down there."

There is overwhelming evidence that Abu Bakr as siddique was correctly appointed.

Narrated Jubair bin Mutim: A woman came to the Prophet who ordered her to return to him again. She said, "What if I came and did not find you?" as if she wanted to say, "If I found you dead?" The Prophet said, "If you should not find me, go to Abu Bakr."

Also, when the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله was ill and couldn't lead the salah it was Abu Bakr who led.

Also, this Hadith seems to be Prophecy of Khilafa and Allah knows best.

Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "While I was sleeping, I saw myself standing at a well, on it there was a bucket. I drew water from the well as much as Allah wished. Then Ibn Abi Quhafa (i.e. Abu Bakr) took the bucket from me and brought out one or two buckets (of water) and there was weakness in his drawing the water. May Allah forgive his weakness for him. Then the bucket turned into a very big one and Ibn Al-Khattab took it over and I had never seen such a mighty person amongst the people as him in performing such hard work, till the people drank to their satisfaction and watered their camels that knelt down there."

As you'll soon find out, he wasn't strictly telling the truth when he said Shias "accept hadith from any authentic source".

Far from it actually...

Salamunalaykum,

I will begin with this hadith. This was shortly spoken by Muhammed pbuh within a short period before his death, infront of a very large number of muslims. The source is considered among one of the authentic books in the ahle sunnah:

Then the Messenger of Allah continued: "Do I not have more right over the believers than what they have over themselves?" People cried and answered: "Yes, O' Messenger of God." Then Prophet (PBUH) held up the hand of Ali and said: "Whoever I am his leader (Mawla), Ali is his leader (Mawla). O' God, love those who love him, and be hostile to those who are hostile to him."

Sahih Tirmidhi, v2, p298, v5, p63


As you only accept hadiths in the six authentic books , and those of authentic commentators/scholars, i will only quote those. I will infact, begin by allowing the words of Hadrath Umar , as narrated in Al Bukhar(most people say it is the most authentic book of hadith in the ahle sunnah, though some say it is Muslim):


When Ali a.s. was burying Muhammed pbuh, Hadrath Abubakr and Hadrath Umar went to saqifah many miles from the mosque of Muhamed pbuh, to try and debate as to who should be the next caliph.

Hadrath Umar himself states in Al Bukhari:

"One should not deceive oneself by saying that the pledge of allegiance given to Abu Bakr was given suddenly and it was successful.

Imam Ali a.s. opposed Hadrath Abubakr, again narrated by Hadrath Umar in Al Bukhari:

And no doubt after the death of the Prophet we were informed that the Ansar disagreed with us and gathered in the shed of Bani Sa'da. 'Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, opposed us, while the emigrants gathered with Abu Bakr.

Hadrath Umar admits in Saqifah when the Ansar were disagreeing with the group of Hadrath Abubakr as to who should be the caliph, and when there was chaos, he took the chance among the chaos -without the consultation of the muslims even at saqifah, to quickly pledge allegiance to Hadrath Abubakr, in Al Bukhari:

Then there was a hue and cry among the gathering and their voices rose so that I was afraid there might be great disagreement, so I said, 'O Abu Bakr! Hold your hand out.' He held his hand out and I pledged allegiance to him, and THEN all the emigrants gave the Pledge of allegiance and so did the Ansar afterwards.

Hadrath Umar himself states, if anyone is to do this again, to give them capital punishment, in Al Bukhari:

So if any person gives the Pledge of allegiance to somebody (to become a Caliph) WITHOUT consulting the other Muslims, then the one he has selected should NOT be granted allegiance, lest both of them should be killed."


Despite opposing Hadrath Abubakr, Ali a.s. did not take out his sword and thus cause a civil war, because the muslims would become fragmented and weak, and outside enemies would take the chance to destroy them.