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ethical issue that's bugging me.

basically, i've been thinking.

rapists, paedophiles, murderers - if I become a doctor I will inevitably help some very bad people.
I know that I would be expected to treat these people as I would anyone else and that as a doctor it would not be my place to judge.
It's hard to articulate exactly where my issue with this lies, and as I type this I know what the stock answers will be and that this question is essentially pointless, but I would like to know what peoples thoughts on this are.

As i've said, it's hard to verbalise and say exactly where I stand on this issue, but would like to know you guys thoughts.

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Reply 1
Original post by kingme
basically, i've been thinking.

rapists, paedophiles, murderers - if I become a doctor I will inevitably help some very bad people.
I know that I would be expected to treat these people as I would anyone else and that as a doctor it would not be my place to judge.
It's hard to articulate exactly where my issue with this lies, and as I type this I know what the stock answers will be and that this question is essentially pointless, but I would like to know what peoples thoughts on this are.

As i've said, it's hard to verbalise and say exactly where I stand on this issue, but would like to know you guys thoughts.


I think the whole point of the NHS is to receive treatment regardless of who you are as people have contributed with their taxes. A doctor should be ready to help anyone in my opinion.
Reply 2
A doctor should only look at the patients medical history that will help them treat the patient regardless of who they are and what they've done.
sometimes i guess you'd just have to put the personal part of it to one side and treat the person as you would any other. i suppose when it comes down to, for example, a life or death situation - hypothetically involving a rapist etc; noone has the right to choose who lives or dies, as a doctor you should be impartial?

if that makes sense...im half asleep so its probably not very coherent :tongue:
OP I think I feel the same way and also don't know how to describe it. It can be challenging to help a patient who you know is a bad egg. I don't really know how I do it, I guess a patient is still a patient no matter what s/he has done. Just have to get on with it.

I don't know how to articulate any of this either! Mind you, it is a difficult ethical issue at half one and I'm very tired.

May try again later :tongue:
Reply 5
Original post by Freiheit
I think the whole point of the NHS is to receive treatment regardless of who you are as people have contributed with their taxes. A doctor should be ready to help anyone in my opinion.


Yes, I know. This will sound silly, but I watched This is England '86 the other day, and found myself thinking that I might not be able to brig myself to treat Lol's dad if i knew what he had done (if you watched you'll know what I'm talking about). From a moral point of view it is wrong to deny someone treatment, but I honestly think there are some people in this world who should be left to rot. I know that sounds terrible, but I'm honestly really struggling ith this.
Your job is not to be anyone's judge or jury. It's to treat them to the best of your ability.
At least you have identified an issue in your practice and can now work on resolving it. This is better than denying an issue and allowing your patient care to be compromised.
Reply 8
Original post by VQG
A doctor should only look at the patients medical history that will help them treat the patient regardless of who they are and what they've done.


can you honestly say, without a shred of doubt, that if you'd watched someone kill/rape etc someone you would do your utmost to save their life?

Original post by atomos
sometimes i guess you'd just have to put the personal part of it to one side and treat the person as you would any other. i suppose when it comes down to, for example, a life or death situation - hypothetically involving a rapist etc; noone has the right to choose who lives or dies, as a doctor you should be impartial?

if that makes sense...im half asleep so its probably not very coherent :tongue:


if I was to philosphise (sp?) about this i'd 100% agree with you, but if I knew a patient had done something awful I would struggle to want to help them.

Original post by Little Hobbit
OP I think I feel the same way and also don't know how to describe it. It can be challenging to help a patient who you know is a bad egg. I don't really know how I do it, I guess a patient is still a patient no matter what s/he has done. Just have to get on with it.

I don't know how to articulate any of this either! Mind you, it is a difficult ethical issue at half one and I'm very tired.

May try again later :tongue:


thanks for trying :tongue: this doing my head in.
Think of lawyers, they have it alot worse when it comes to the ethical problem of helping those sorts of people.

When you start analyzing the character of every person you help, you're going to have a tough time in life. Because 'bad people' aren't just restricted to murderers and peadophiles. Everyone's guilty of something, where do you draw the line?
Original post by kingme



if I was to philosphise (sp?) about this i'd 100% agree with you, but if I knew a patient had done something awful I would struggle to want to help them.





yeah i get what you mean...like its all well and good for me to have written that, but in real life it may not be as easy when actually dealing with such a situation
Reply 11
Original post by internet tough guy
Well think of the lawyers, they have it alot worse when it comes to the ethical problem of helping those sorts of people.

When you start analyzing the character of every person you help, you're going to have a tough time in life. Because 'bad people' aren't just restricted to murderers and peadophiles. Everyone's guilty of something, where do you draw the line?


i'd be more than happy to treat most people, i won't grudge anyone mistakes. but do i think i could help someone who'd killed just because they could? I can't honestly say that I would want to.
Reply 12
If the NHS took a register of sin, and refused to treat all those with a aggregate of 10 au or more, the financial crisis would be solved.
Original post by kingme
can you honestly say, without a shred of doubt, that if you'd watched someone kill/rape etc someone you would do your utmost to save their life?

Personally? nope but I'm not a doctor. You don't have to like it but treating everyone is part and parcel of your future job, obviously that is easier said than done and i have no doubt in the past doctors have not gone the extra mile for patients they know have had the kind of pasts you described.

I can't even imagine how i would cope if i was a doctor, saved the life of a murderer or rapist who then went on to rape or kill someone else.

I think your right to have a problem with it and unfortunately i think the cricket on your shoulder will always view it as a moral dilemma.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 14
Original post by atomos
yeah i get what you mean...like its all well and good for me to have written that, but in real life it may not be as easy when actually dealing with such a situation


so adolf hitler is put on your ward. are you going to treat him the same as eeryone else?
Reply 15
Original post by Darth Stewie
Personally? nope but I'm not a doctor. You don't have to like it but treating everyone is part and parcel of your future job, obviously that is easier said than done and i have no doubt in the past doctors have not gone the extra mile for patients they know have had the kind of pasts you described.

I can't even imagine how i would cope if i was a doctor, saved the life of a murderer or rapist who then went on to rape or kill someone else.

I think your right to have a problem with it and unfortunately i think the cricket on your shoulder will always view it as a moral dilemma.


thanks man. you've given me something else to think about though, I hadn't even got that far.
Original post by kingme
so adolf hitler is put on your ward. are you going to treat him the same as eeryone else?


Depends, is Adolf Hitler now a convict in prison (i.e. has been dealt with by the criminal justice system)?

In which case, yes I would. I wouldn't be friendly or chummy or like him, but I would be professional and do my job. If I wanted to punish criminals I'd have applied for law not medicine.
Reply 17
Original post by kingme
Yes, I know. This will sound silly, but I watched This is England '86 the other day, and found myself thinking that I might not be able to brig myself to treat Lol's dad if i knew what he had done (if you watched you'll know what I'm talking about). From a moral point of view it is wrong to deny someone treatment, but I honestly think there are some people in this world who should be left to rot. I know that sounds terrible, but I'm honestly really struggling ith this.


I understand your point if view. The problem people have is who will get to decide who should receive treatment or not. If it becomes the doctors choice, then a doctor can refuse someone treatment due to their class, gender, race, disability ect and nobody can say the doctor is "wrong". Another issue is: if a former convicted murderer pays his taxes, why should he still be refused treatment.
We need to treat them and allow the authorities to deal with them. It is the laws place to judge, not a doctor's - especially since denying someone treatment due to their previous actions is such a slippery slope.

I have to say though, I wouldn't be jumping for joy at the thought of saving a paedophile or rapist.
You're getting paid the same regardless of who're you're treating. It's a job. You won't be the moral guardian of society. Next.

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