Stephen Lawrence murder: Dobson and Norris found guilty

I'm very sad that they have short sentences (in context)- although, the judges hands were tied due to the law, but can't they be given extra sentences for not coming forward for 18 years...?

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 101

fudgesundae

16

Good outcome, the judges hands really were tied with the sentencing.

Also: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16413433

Could be more to come.

Reply 102

truffle_girl

7

I'm disgusted at his murder, but what annoys me, is how the fact that he was black, and his murderers white, supposedly makes the crime 1,000,000 times as bad. Even if racism WERE behind the motives, why does that make the crime any worse, when the end result (i.e. murder) is the same as with any other murder? "Crimes of hate"? Oh, right, I thought that most people only murdered those they ADORE, how silly of me! Amazes me, how many people have referred to them as "racist scum", and such like; as if the fact that they're murderers, of any description, doesn't rather overshadow considerably the fact that they may be racists. Exactly how would the media attention and public opinion differ, had he been white, and his perpetrators black, I wonder.

Reply 103

ScheduleII

11

Original post by truffle_girl

I'm disgusted at his murder, but what annoys me, is how the fact that he was black, and his murderers white, supposedly makes the crime 1,000,000 times as bad. Even if racism WERE behind the motives, why does that make the crime any worse, when the end result (i.e. murder) is the same as with any other murder? "Crimes of hate"? Oh, right, I thought that most people only murdered those they ADORE, how silly of me! Amazes me, how many people have referred to them as "racist scum", and such like; as if the fact that they're murderers, of any description, doesn't rather overshadow considerably the fact that they may be racists. Exactly how would the media attention and public opinion differ, had he been white, and his perpetrators black, I wonder.

Yes. Racist murder is no worse morally than normal murder. If they had got 30 year tariffs due to racism (they still wouldn't now, due to being minors at time of offence but more like 20-22 year tariffs) it would have been unfair.

"Hate-crime" laws are politically correct kneejerk reactions.

Reply 104

ISS2508

2

What sickens me is that they still were charged as if they were the 'young yobs' as were at the time of the incident. That means only 14 years behind bars, that could even go down on 'good behavior.' They should have life imprisonment's and an incentive for the government to rethink capital punishment. If events can be 110% proven I believe and eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth... it sounds bad but really IMAGINE that was your sibling or son? I would do something to them myself :'(

Reply 105

InnerTemple

OP

20

Original post by ISS2508

What sickens me is that they still were charged as if they were the 'young yobs' as were at the time of the incident. That means only 14 years behind bars, that could even go down on 'good behavior.' They should have life imprisonment's and an incentive for the government to rethink capital punishment. If events can be 110% proven I believe and eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth... it sounds bad but really IMAGINE that was your sibling or son? I would do something to them myself :'(

It can't go down, the 14 years is a minimum term.

Reply 106

BurntPeach

Truffle girl and the other user who quote you.
What are you misunderstanding here? It is easy to be annoyed when a crime of this magnitude has not happened to you.

Did you watch the secret recordings of the gang with their knives and comments of skinning black people alive? Sure.. It was only murder

No one is saying that racist murders are less or more than other murders. Murder is murder however, this was an unprovoked attack due to steven's colour.. Something that one cannot change.

The men that commited this crime are ignorant beyond comprehension.

Why are people having such a hard time facing up to the fact that these white racist thugs murdered an innocent black man? I don't fault any man or woman for wanting to support those of the same culture or background but I doubt anyone would want to claim those thugs as their own unless they agree with their actions.

We all have the ability to change the world but we can't wipe issues under the carpet or debate what would have happened if the tables were turned. We need to face this monster upfront and deal with it as a british collective.

There is no point questioning what would have happened if the skin colour of steven and the thugs were different because the facts are there for the whole world to see. What makes this a racist hate crime is that they put into action their thoughts and feelings of black people. They deserve to be made an example of in public. What they did was inexcusable and feral.

I'm so disgusted with the murder, the way the police dealt with steven and duane while steven was dying in front of their eyes and the way the case was handled. That poor family have lost their son and brother due to the evil actions of the scum.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 107

ISS2508

2

Original post by InnerTemple

It can't go down, the 14 years is a minimum term.

Ahhh, but still that is not enough

Reply 108

Fusion

20

Original post by ISS2508

Ahhh, but still that is not enough

14 years for murder is pretty long in this country

Reply 109

Fusion

20

Original post by BurntPeach

Did you watch the secret recordings of the gang with their knives and comments of skinning black people alive?

It's baffling because they knew the camera was there, even remarking it was a waste of taxpayers money. However, plenty of people say stuff like that amongst their friends, doesn't mean they act on it.

Reply 110

ISS2508

2

Original post by Fusion

14 years for murder is pretty long in this country

Are you serious? If you had the intentions to kill someone and you rightly did kill someone, you should have your life taken away too. Life is precious

Reply 111

BurntPeach

Original post by Fusion

It's baffling because they knew the camera was there, even remarking it was a waste of taxpayers money. However, plenty of people say stuff like that amongst their friends, doesn't mean they act on it.

It is not baffling to me. It is perfectly clear how they feel.
They said this after the murder. I'm glad I don't know anyone who says and acts like this amongst their friends. I don't even know why you mentioned that people say this. It does not contribute to the discussion.

Reply 112

Fusion

20

Original post by BurntPeach

It is not baffling to me. It is perfectly clear how they feel.
They said this after the murder. I'm glad I don't know anyone who says and acts like this amongst their friends. I don't even know why you mentioned that people say this. It does not contribute to the discussion.

So you're saying people don't say things that they wouldn't carry out? particularly amongst mates peer pressure etc.

Reply 113

BurntPeach

Original post by Fusion

So you're saying people don't say things that they wouldn't carry out? particularly amongst mates peer pressure etc.

Your question is off topic and no I did not say that I think people say things and then act out afterwards.
The gang said this AFTER the murder and also they acted out how they would murder black people. It is likely they said it before and thus carried out their actions on steven. No amount of peer pressure could make me collect knives, bats and other weapons to beat people with. The same goes with saying racist hateful and ignorant things about a group of people.

Reply 114

truffle_girl

7

Original post by BurntPeach

Did you watch the secret recordings of the gang with their knives and comments of skinning black people alive? Sure.. It was only murder

And other murderers wouldn't say the same thing?

No one is saying that racist murders are less or more than other murders. Murder is murder however, this was an unprovoked attack due to steven's colour.. Something that one cannot change.

And if I get murdered because I'm walking down a street, say, I can't change that. If someone gets murdered because they're a random person, that person can't change that fact. If a murderer will murder anyone, regardless of colour, then that actually makes their range of potential victims GREATER. What's your point, with respect?

The men that commited this crime are ignorant beyond comprehension.

Aren't all murderers?

Why are people having such a hard time facing up to the fact that these white racist thugs murdered an innocent black man?

Many murderers are thugs, who murder innocent people.....all you keep doing, is unnecessarily mentioning "racist" and "black".

What makes this a racist hate crime is that they put into action their thoughts and feelings of black people. They deserve to be made an example of in public. What they did was inexcusable and feral.

Murder is generally inexcusable and feral.............

That poor family have lost their son and brother due to the evil actions of the scum.

A lot of families lose sons and brothers, due to evil actions of scum.

Reply 115

thunder_chunky

19

Original post by Reformed2010

Huge relief. I was just one years old when this happened. However it was that big of a case, especially within the black community, that I learned the significance of the case as I grew up from friends and family. Proud a bit of justice has been delivered, all praises to the British judicial system and unyielding fighting spirit of Lawrence's family.

Some good news for 2012!

edit: whoever neg this post, I wish I believed in a hell as I'd sit more comfortable knowing you would burn in it. Pathetic.

You were one when this happened? Christ I remember watching the reports on the news.

Reply 116

kaydiann

Original post by truffle_girl

I'm disgusted at his murder, but what annoys me, is how the fact that he was black, and his murderers white, supposedly makes the crime 1,000,000 times as bad. Even if racism WERE behind the motives, why does that make the crime any worse, when the end result (i.e. murder) is the same as with any other murder? "Crimes of hate"? Oh, right, I thought that most people only murdered those they ADORE, how silly of me! Amazes me, how many people have referred to them as "racist scum", and such like; as if the fact that they're murderers, of any description, doesn't rather overshadow considerably the fact that they may be racists. Exactly how would the media attention and public opinion differ, had he been white, and his perpetrators black, I wonder.

If it was the other way around, the murderer would have been caught and sentenced decades ago, with media and public backlash against the black minority group, among communities.

Reply 117

truffle_girl

7

Original post by kaydiann

If it was the other way around, the murderer would have been caught and sentenced decades ago, with media and public backlash against the black minority group, among communities.

Um, would he? On what basis are you saying this? Care to provide me some examples? So, because of ONE case, in which the Police ****ed up, that means all/most similar cases, racially, are the same? I remember reading a case of a black guy who stabbed a white guy to death on a bus in London, which got one small column in the paper; the same paper, on which Anthony Walker, the black teenager stabbed to death in Liverpool in 2005, was on the front page, and had several pages dedicated to him, for several days. Doesn't sound like "media and public backlash" being in favour of white victims of black perpetrators, to me..........feel free to prove me wrong........

Reply 118

kad

Original post by Blahblah2654

Ok. Your quote proves they were nasty bigots. But don't you find it strange that in this CCTV footage not once did they mention the killing. Don't you think that is strange? Surely they would mention it at least once? They were nasty people, had racist views and were criminal thugs by the sound of things but that doesn't prove they killed him. This has been a witchhunt, the forensic evidence sounds very dubious to me, they had an official admitting that it was very likely that the evidence could have been contaminated. Plus they stored the clothes in the same locker or something like that.

There is no doubt that it was a tragedy but it was 18 years ago, look at all the white lads who have been killed by blacks such as Ben Kinsella and the white 14 year old from Islington who got killed for looking at a black person the wrong way. The police say it's not racially motivated but we know full well about the politically correct view that has slowly permeated through society that holds that only white people can be racist. Ho many white youths have we heard of murdering blacks since Stephen Lawrence? There was no way that they would have had a fair trial anyway with the media telling us for the last 18 years that they did it.

I would agree that indeed, it does seem v. strange that these young men when being filmed covertly didn't actually come out and talk more about the killing. I say 'talk more' because according to this article they did:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8985208/Stephen-Lawrence-murder-inside-the-violent-racist-world-of-gang-led-by-self-styled-Krays.html

(scroll down towards the bottom, look for subheading 'the videotape')

As you can read, they don't mention Stephen's name directly but it seems they were aware they were being monitored - so one explanation for why they skirted around the issue. It seems reasonable that they would know to be careful re being watched, as a number of them, most notably David Norris, had criminal relatives who, if they were clever, would've told them they may end up being bugged so to be careful what they say.

It is indeed a shame there is no absolute conclusive evidence they killed SL, and the ability of the defence team to argue contamination of clothes does cast a doubt as to whether you can be 100% sure that the David Norris & Dobson were there, but I must say for me, I do think at minimum they were there at the time SL was killed, something they both (IMHO) shamefully deny. Why do I say this?

Well, we know they were a bunch of violent racists, 26 different ppl named them and/or their associates as the SL killers within 48 hrs of the murder and it has now come to light that Norris and another associate also linked to the SL killing: Neil Acourt, have both been banged up for a racist attack on a off-duty police officer. Additionally we also know that Dobson lied through his back teeth about not knowing Norris saying, 'I know of a DN but I don't know him personally', when in fact, police had photo evidence of the 2 together. Finally, throughout police interviews over the years and an inquiry, the 2 and the wider suspected group involved have always made 'no comment'. Being put up for murder is serious - if you know you didn't do it, you'd better speak up to put the facts straight!

At minimum they were there on that fateful night. Whether they actually had the knife in their hands and literally killed SL, I don't know, but were they there, and if they didn't strike the fatal blow, do they know who did? I certainly think so.

Reply 119

andyman1966

Original post by ISS2508

What sickens me is that they still were charged as if they were the 'young yobs' as were at the time of the incident. That means only 14 years behind bars, that could even go down on 'good behavior.' They should have life imprisonment's and an incentive for the government to rethink capital punishment. If events can be 110% proven I believe and eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth... it sounds bad but really IMAGINE that was your sibling or son? I would do something to them myself :'(

I bet if they had been black and the victim had been white the british public would never have even heard about it.
Why has the murders of over 100 white people at the hands of black criminals over the past forty years never made it into the news or mass media and instead been completely hushed up ?
It is one law for blacks and another for allegedly 'RACIST' whites.
As we all know, blacks are perfect and would never commit a racist crime, EVER. They are so great. We should all give praise and thanks that there are so many of them over here in our little island, helping us become the great country we are, and not committing the vast majority of violent crime in our country.
Praise be to all the perfect, fantastic, friendly, smiling black people who do NOT have a chip on their shoulder about the slave trade over a hundred years ago which they now own and run very effectively, selling their own people into modern slavery.
They are such lovely people. The way they attack pregnant women from other tribes in thier own country with machettes and cut open their bellies to tear the unborn child out to hack it up. Or the way they hack off the arms of young children to make sure they are no threat to their tribe in the future. Hmmmm such lovely people. We all love black people. They are fantastic and have done so much for us.
Im not sure what exactly ! ! but i have been told it a million times. Maybe driving some buses or trains ? They certainly make crap nurses and thats a fact, having had to put up with their lazy beligerent uncaring manner in three different hospitals over the past five years. Kick em all out. :eek: