The Trans*/Non-Cisgender Thread

Does it not hurt though? Or (personal question sorry) are they not particularly big in the first place?

In my experience, binding is quite painful but also quite necessary.

The first few weeks of wearing my binder, I was out of breath ALL THE TIME. Going up stairs, running, even walking fast, ANYTHING. It was worse than a corset. Now it's not, but it still makes it hard to exercise. My ribs also end up hurting (I bind from when I get dressed in a morning to when I go to bed on a night, so 15+ hours per day) and generally, it is rather uncomfortable.

However, mine was second-hand off a transguy who's five inches smaller than me and a fair bit lighter, so there we go Desperation and being poor, eh?

In my experience, binding is quite painful but also quite necessary.

This may be a strange observation but you look so... Nordic.

You look amazing in the photo.

As for what I've left of the quote, I want to ask "why"? Most of us in here agree that gender is a construct of some form (though I've just read an interesting article on that by Judith Butler), so why do transfolk wish to change their bodies? Genitalia aside, why are we tying gender and physicality back together, after having separated them? Why should a man have a flat chest? I don't at the moment, and I know one cisgendered male who had a fully functioning mammary gland and breast. Just the one, though. He's one of the most "masculine" men I know.

I'm not getting at you or anyone who wants to change their body to be more gender appropriate, I'm just curious, because despite my genderneutrality, I feel no desire to make my body match.

In my experience, binding is quite painful but also quite necessary.

The first few weeks of wearing my binder, I was out of breath ALL THE TIME. Going up stairs, running, even walking fast, ANYTHING. It was worse than a corset. Now it's not, but it still makes it hard to exercise. My ribs also end up hurting (I bind from when I get dressed in a morning to when I go to bed on a night, so 15+ hours per day) and generally, it is rather uncomfortable.

However, mine was second-hand off a transguy who's five inches smaller than me and a fair bit lighter, so there we go Desperation and being poor, eh?

I don't believe gender to be a construct; I believe gender to be something that people inherently feel (or not, if they identify as gender-neutral/agender/etc). I see it rather that gender roles, and the idea that there's a perfect correlation between genitalia/chromosomes/etc and gender, is the construct.

I don't know exactly why I wish for surgery and facial hair and the like. But... my body feels deeply wrong as it is. I suspect some of it is to do with being read properly in public (being addressed as female ****s me off something chronic, and that happens if you appear female-bodied) but it's not just that; I want to feel comfortable with my own body, and for reasons unknown, I just don't with it in its present state. I don't get it either, basically, but I do feel it

Fair enough, but then why do you feel male if what being male actually is, is a social construct beyond physical identifiers? That's where I come from in the debate really. If the identifiers are a social construct, then it follows the identity itself is a construct of some form. This viewpoint obviously falls flat in the face of transfolk, but I'd suggest then that that is a physical rather than mental thing, which I guess semi-answers my question. If what people who wish to change sex do it based on physicality, it makes sense they'd want to change the rest of their body as well to fit in with the physical norms.

Oh, I hope no one thinks I'm getting at them, I'm just curious. As I mentioned elsewhere, I really want to break the bond between gender and sex, something we in here do, but I want to go further so that a guy is not defined by a flat chest or muscles and a woman isn't defined by hips and breasts, etc.

In my experience, binding is quite painful but also quite necessary.

The first few weeks of wearing my binder, I was out of breath ALL THE TIME. Going up stairs, running, even walking fast, ANYTHING. It was worse than a corset. Now it's not, but it still makes it hard to exercise. My ribs also end up hurting (I bind from when I get dressed in a morning to when I go to bed on a night, so 15+ hours per day) and generally, it is rather uncomfortable.

However, mine was second-hand off a transguy who's five inches smaller than me and a fair bit lighter, so there we go Desperation and being poor, eh?

Ok guys, so I fell asleep in my binder a couple of hours ago. I've just woken up, and taken it off, but my chest is all tight and panic attack-y. I'm not sure whether this is the effect of the binder, or it's the effect of panic. It's one or the other, and tbh, probably both.

Will I die? (This is a completly serious question.) I really don't want to have to explain to anyone why I'm dying, and I'm actually quite scared and just rambling on. Surely my chest will re-expand or something? I don't even know if this is an effect of the binder, because I'm having a panic attack, so it might just be that, and. ****. I really dislike this feeling.

But seriously, have any of you experienced this, and did you die?

If you're having a panic attack (legitimately), I would recommend getting off the internet and trying instead to focus on your breathing so that you calm yourself down.

You will not die because you slept in a binder for a couple of hours. I wear mine for 15+ hours daily, and it's substantially too small for me, and I am yet to expire. Yours fits and you've only had it on a little while. Yes, they're restrictive, so take it off at the moment, but you're not going to die.

That's probably a good idea. But the thought of dying makes it hard to breathe, and I needed to find out. That makes sense to me, but doesn't sound like it.

Thankyou. I know that it sounds daft- I wore it all day without dying, but.. ehh, panic isn't rational.

I'm really against the 'gender is a social construct' idea. I'm of the view that it is most likely that gender is a biological setting and is fairly resistant to social influences.

Certain makes a lot more sense with transgenderism.

A guy is not defined by their flat chest, sure. I have made the decision to remain vaginaed, even though my gender is completely binary. I guess it's better to think of all the markers as a whole, and different people will find different markers important. This counts for cisgendered people too - consider the males who dance without fear of damaging their masculinity. And, importantly, there are cismales who would refuse to participate in ballet because that marker is important to them. They may be clean-shaven, whereas Mr Dancer may find that a beard is an important aspect of his masculinity. Gender markers become non-universal and amorphous, but most people have a clear and binary definition of how they perceive their own gender (although there are exceptions to that rule).
What I'm trying to say is that however much you may say that masculinity is not defined by a flat chest, and I believe you'd be correct in saying so, I also think that masculinity is defined by a flat chest among individuals who happen to have given importance to that gender marker.

I hope I'm making some sort of sense, I'm not sure I am, not even to myself. I'm trying to explain to myself why some physical things (e.g. flat-chestedness) are an all-important definition of who I am, and why other things (e.g. genitalia) are not.

That's probably a good idea. But the thought of dying makes it hard to breathe, and I needed to find out. That makes sense to me, but doesn't sound like it.

Thankyou. I know that it sounds daft- I wore it all day without dying, but.. ehh, panic isn't rational.

You raise some valid points, but the very points you're making show that it's all a construct. If flat-chestedness, say, isn't considered everywhere a symbol of malehood, then it must be a construct by virtue of being a socialised or culturalised signifier. Moreover, there are cultures out there where there is no gender binary at all, but 3 or more sometimes. That we in our culture have a clear cut gender binary, though the boundary is different with each person, doesn't make gender less of a construct.

I don't think that we go out there and choose a gender identity and then proceed to build it up. Just that gender identity isn't innate to us from birth.

For example, it is perfectly plausible that my androgyne-ness comes from the fact I grew up in a heavily female dominated family but went to an all male school.

That said, I'm no psychologist, so this could all be bull****.

Why does a penis matter less to you than a flat-chest, if I might ask such a personal question?

I've been there when it comes to panicking for no reason. Hope you're all right now.

You'll be fine. People who corset train often fall asleep with the corset on. Don't forget, when asleep, we breathe at a shallower rhythm.

Anyone still around here?

I've had another counselling session and it was good I've talked about things, and thought about things and it's good

Anyone still around here?

I've had another counselling session and it was good I've talked about things, and thought about things and it's good

yes - im still around, although not much time to post recently...

& good to hear about your counselling session, sounds very usefull

Good is good, so nice to hear your counselling session went well. What kind of things did you talk about?

Mine were always fairly pointless. Always had bad counselling people (really bad), and after a while I started lying to them anyway. Was easier that way. Now I go to Dr Curtis, a private guy, every 6 months. And he has to be good, because I give him money.