The Trans*/Non-Cisgender Thread

Original post by incipientT

You can find all of your recent posts here. It doesn't look like you've posted anything that could have been to anon in the last few days...

The only way I can think of that you might have posted it without the post showing up on that page is if you posted anonymously.

Kind of glad I didn't post it anywhere weird. I guess if it turns up it turns up.

Reply 782

Tortious

16

Original post by BKS

Kind of glad I didn't post it anywhere weird. I guess if it turns up it turns up.

Doesn't look like it - I've checked your history and there's nothing. :nope:

(Interesting question about fruit picking though!)

Reply 783

Original post by Tortious

Doesn't look like it - I've checked your history and there's nothing. :nope:

(Interesting question about fruit picking though!)

Thanks for checking. If I get time I'll re-reply.

Reply 784

lightburns

15

Original post by Anonymous

(I should start by saying that I'm both Anon 20 and Anon 21 - mistakenly posted from my other account the first time...)

I see. Did you realise as soon as puberty started that you didn't like the changes that were happening to your body? Or did you accept its inevitability for a while, before realising that it's possible to change sex and that's what you wanted/had to do?

No, it took time. To begin with I was concerned, because you hear many trans people talking about how they always knew, right from a young child. I had vocalised a preference of being a boy as a child, but I did not have any distress or necessity to be one. It really did develop for me during puberty, and since then I have found other people who have had a similar experience. Mostly also having had the same concern. I guess I knew for sure at age 14 (puberty started age 11).

Sorry, yeah - I didn't put that particularly well. What I meant is that I find it hard to tell how I feel because I know there are some butches who suffer a degree of dysphoria, although I guess they're happy overall as females if they don't identify as trans - and it's the grey area of "people with dysphoria" which encompasses some butches and some transguys that's leaving me confused. Unlike the simplistically portrayed generic trans story ("I always knew I wanted to be the opposite sex and as soon as I dressed as it for a play I knew for sure", or similar), when I see myself dressed formally as a guy I don't think "I look like a man and this is who I'm supposed to be". I'm fairly sure I don't identify with my femininity as much as most girls, but even though I dress casually like a guy all the time, I don't see either sex in the mirror. I just see "me", but I don't know who that is.

Does that make any sense at all? :erm:

Making more sense to me than before, I think, but I'm still not quite sure where you stand (maybe you're not either, that's why you're here :P ). The thing with sex dysphoria is that it's hard to distinguish from other body issues. It's all very well saying "if you have sex dysphoria, you're trans", but how are you supposed to know if it's truly sex dysphoria or not? It can be a very tricky thing to work out (and dangerous should you get it wrong).

There's two strategies that I would suggest could be useful.

1. Imagine you are have been exiled to a desert island. You will never meet another living person in your entire life. You could, however, be delivered hormones, and undergo surgery. No-one else would ever see the effects of this. Would you still take them?

If not, that is a suggestion that you would be transitioning for other people, rather than yourself.

2. Do you experience discomfort to some extent in all sexed physical characteristics, but not in other physical characteristics?

If it's not specific to sexed characteristics, then this is a suggestion that you could be experiencing body dysmorphia, which is also very serious, but requires different treatment. People who suffer from body dysmorphia are unlikely to accept that they have a disorder, and prefer to try to 'fix' perceived flaws (which they will never manage, as the problem is with how they see themselves and not their body) rather than address the underlying psychological issues.

If you don't experience any distress whatsoever, then I would say that you probably had no problem (cis people don't necessarily strongly identify with their gender, any more than a white person needs to identify as being white).

If you have distress that is not specific to sexed characteristics, then I would say that you probably had a different issue than transsexuality, biggest example of confusion is body dysmorphia.

If you have distress that would disappear if you were alone on a desert island, then I would say that you probably had a different issue than transsexuality; something about how you are seen by others.

If you have distress specifically about sexed characteristics, then I would say that you probably are a trans individual.

Note all the probablys. These are strategies to help to work yourself out, a very tricky job, not the be all and end all. For example, someone could have distress about sexed characteristics for a reason other than transsexuality. Conversely, a transsexual could form such strong insecurities that they experience distress in regards to their entire body - issues can be co-morbid, after all.

Reply 785

Anonymous #21

Original post by lightburns

No, it took time. To begin with I was concerned, because you hear many trans people talking about how they always knew, right from a young child. I had vocalised a preference of being a boy as a child, but I did not have any distress or necessity to be one. It really did develop for me during puberty, and since then I have found other people who have had a similar experience. Mostly also having had the same concern. I guess I knew for sure at age 14 (puberty started age 11).

Hmmm. I'm not sure this is applicable to me, but then it always does take a while for the penny to drop for me...

Making more sense to me than before, I think, but I'm still not quite sure where you stand (maybe you're not either, that's why you're here :P ).

Yep, nail on the head!

The thing with sex dysphoria is that it's hard to distinguish from other body issues. It's all very well saying "if you have sex dysphoria, you're trans", but how are you supposed to know if it's truly sex dysphoria or not? It can be a very tricky thing to work out (and dangerous should you get it wrong).

There's two strategies that I would suggest could be useful.

1. Imagine you are have been exiled to a desert island. You will never meet another living person in your entire life. You could, however, be delivered hormones, and undergo surgery. No-one else would ever see the effects of this. Would you still take them?

If not, that is a suggestion that you would be transitioning for other people, rather than yourself.

I've heard this question before, and the truthful answer is that I don't know - I guess because I find it difficult to imagine life where I'm untainted by society's "norms" and I'd never seen other people before. The only answer I can give for sure is "I'd wear 'male' clothes", but that's because I prefer "male" fashion over "female", and isn't much to do with the gender of the wearers (although I guess part of the reason I prefer guys' clothing is that it masks my more feminine attributes).

When I look at myself in the mirror, based on my current "appearance" and gender expression (short hair, male clothing etc.), I think I would be "better" as a guy. I posted on Reddit asking for advice a while ago, and having checked it seems I've actually been questioning whether I'm trans for about 10 months now - I was in a more restrictive environment before (e.g. I had to have long hair so that I could look "feminine" on occasion), but now that I'm out of there and able to express myself how I want (the first thing I did was get a haircut, and I've been read as male by cis non-LGBT people several times), I still feel like something's missing. It's this "something's missing" element that's leading me to wonder if I'm trans.

I think what's holding me back is a rather toxic mindset attributable to a bunch of radical (and I mean radical) feminists that I met at university. It's not quite that "women are better than men", or that men are "the enemy", but it's a subconscious "us/them" mentality that makes me wonder if I'm sufficiently "in touch with my masculinity" to want to transition, if you see.

2. Do you experience discomfort to some extent in all sexed physical characteristics, but not in other physical characteristics?

Possibly. I've got a distinctly feminine shape ("pear", rather than the "straight up and down" that men seem to have), which I've never been happy about, and I don't think that's just normal insecurity. As for surgery...

Spoiler

If it's not specific to sexed characteristics, then this is a suggestion that you could be experiencing body dysmorphia, which is also very serious, but requires different treatment. People who suffer from body dysmorphia are unlikely to accept that they have a disorder, and prefer to try to 'fix' perceived flaws (which they will never manage, as the problem is with how they see themselves and not their body) rather than address the underlying psychological issues.

It's genuinely just those areas that come to mind - for instance, I'm pretty sure that my nose is a little crooked, but that doesn't bother me. :p:

If you don't experience any distress whatsoever, then I would say that you probably had no problem (cis people don't necessarily strongly identify with their gender, any more than a white person needs to identify as being white).

I don't know - I think I'm (unnecessarily?) wary of my motives for potentially transitioning. Reverting to the swimwear discussion (part of the spoilered discussion of surgery), I feel like I'd be having top surgery and changing my body to complete my ability to express myself through clothes in a masculine manner all of the time. I'm not sure whether that's a positive or a negative, but there you go, in case it helps you to infer anything.

If you have distress that is not specific to sexed characteristics, then I would say that you probably had a different issue than transsexuality, biggest example of confusion is body dysmorphia.

If you have distress that would disappear if you were alone on a desert island, then I would say that you probably had a different issue than transsexuality; something about how you are seen by others.

If you have distress specifically about sexed characteristics, then I would say that you probably are a trans individual.

Note all the probablys. These are strategies to help to work yourself out, a very tricky job, not the be all and end all. For example, someone could have distress about sexed characteristics for a reason other than transsexuality. Conversely, a transsexual could form such strong insecurities that they experience distress in regards to their entire body - issues can be co-morbid, after all.

Thanks, that's a very helpful breakdown of the different possibilities. :hugs:

I guess the hardest part now is working out what it is I want - although anything worth having never came easy!

Reply 786

KM1994

Original post by SimpsP

Hi,

Somewhere along the lines of masculine identifying sort of queer transguy (I have no idea I just have tits and they freak me the hell out) who is closeted but i'm fairly certain one of my friends knows and is just humoring me. I'm gay/attracted to men. Yeah anyway, just saying hello see if there's anyone else in my boat.

Thanks

Hey! /late response

I'm kind of in the same boat. I identify as a mix of queer transguy/genderqueer man and just plain queer. I too am more attracted to men/masculinity and I get how hard it can be with friends. I've been out for over 2 years as trans* of some kind :smile:

so, hi!

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 787

Original post by Anonymous

Hi all, sorry for the short message but I'm on my phone!

Couple of questions from a not-sure-if-genderqueer-or-trans FAAB here...

Trans people - did you always "know" (from childhood) you were trans, or did you work it out later? How was the coming out process? Is/was transitioning the massive upheaval I'd expect it to be? :s-smilie:

Genderqueer people - to put it bluntly (but without meaning to sound insulting), how do you know you're not trans? In my case, FAAB but I'd have said I've got a much more masculine brain. I'm not sure I can "cope" (for want of a better word) outside the gender binary, so whilst I'm currently quite androgynous, I'm not sure I see it lasting...but nor can I picture myself as "completely male" (e.g. in a suit and tie) either.

Any advice much appreciated. Thanks.

Attempt 2 at a reply.

I didn't care as a kid, I think as a kid very few people have the level of awareness for it to matter as a kid. There are things on reflection that could be seen as indications- when I was a police person in a play I insisted on having the male hat ect. But really that means very little imo because... well your just a kid. I have a friend who lived as male for a while when she was a kid, she's now entirely sure she is female.

Around puberty (age 10/11 onwards) things were inarticulately weird. I started wearing very baggy jumpers and tshirts. I wanted to wear boy's clothes and my mum let me apart from to school. My male friends were different with me. I was 15 before I found words for it though, however then it made sense very quickly.

I came out between 15 and 18. Coming out really isn't one thing, it's a decision you constantly make with every person. I only ever came out as agender to friends I know will understand. I decided to medically transition at 19 and then most let people assume I am a trans guy. For the last few years everyone has assume I'm cis male. I tried being out as trans within a certain social circle (of non-queer but queer friendly people who were cool but didn't get it) but I hated the fact people seemed to go around telling others like it was so hugely amazing when to me it's barely interesting.

The only time coming out felt like a big deal was to my family because I really care what they think. But I feel I socially transitioned from 11-20 near enough. I just did what felt right for me at that time, I guess for most people it won;t take so long but I think the principle still applies. To me it took any sense of pressure or sudden change out of it.

I kind of got ok with the fact people don't get it. It's **** but that's reality. I really, really wish it could be different. I know who I am, there's people in my life who get it and that just has to be enough because I don't find the alternative worth the hassle. Trying to be out and being made to feel like it is a big issue feels **** too. Two **** options so I take the one with less hassle.

I decided to medically transition more because I couldn't not try than because I was sure. I had thought about it for years and concluded I would never be sure but I was willing to take the risk because it couldn't be worse and there was a good chance it'd be much better. Even as I was put to sleep for top surgery I was panicking about whether or not i was making a mistake. I'm now much happier and it was the right decision but even if it wasn't I think it'd still be better than the what if.

Reply 788

Hi I suffer from mental illness and only really feel myself when I'm acting/being like a woman. I get put off doing it as I'm heterosexual and I'm always being asked if I'm gay. I feel more myself when I'm effeminate, sensitive and thinking I'm a woman. I don't want a sex change and I don't want to be gay. Am I Trans? And what category of Trans do I fit into?

Reply 789

Original post by Arketec

Hi I suffer from mental illness and only really feel myself when I'm acting/being like a woman. I get put off doing it as I'm heterosexual and I'm always being asked if I'm gay. I feel more myself when I'm effeminate, sensitive and thinking I'm a woman. I don't want a sex change and I don't want to be gay. Am I Trans? And what category of Trans do I fit into?

Not everyone wants their gender (the mental side of things) and their sex (the physical side of things) to 'match'. Not all trans people want to medically, legally and/or socially transition- regardless of whether they want their gender and sex to 'match', eg a trans man may choose to never medically transition and he may only ever tell close friends he is male but he is still a man because that's how he feels.

The above is just some thoughts I had for you to consider since they are things a lot of people don't think of. Nobody can tell you what you are, it may well take you a while to work it out.

Reply 790

Original post by BKS

Not everyone wants their gender (the mental side of things) and their sex (the physical side of things) to 'match'. Not all trans people want to medically, legally and/or socially transition- regardless of whether they want their gender and sex to 'match', eg a trans man may choose to never medically transition and he may only ever tell close friends he is male but he is still a man because that's how he feels.

The above is just some thoughts I had for you to consider since they are things a lot of people don't think of. Nobody can tell you what you are, it may well take you a while to work it out.

This is the first time I've thought about it without going into denial and trying to suppress my true feelings. I have never told anyone how I feel and ATM I feel quite weird because all my friends have always been kind of alpha males or very male and I've always tried to fit in with what they're like, I'm confused basically. :confused:

Reply 791

Original post by Arketec

This is the first time I've thought about it without going into denial and trying to suppress my true feelings. I have never told anyone how I feel and ATM I feel quite weird because all my friends have always been kind of alpha males or very male and I've always tried to fit in with what they're like, I'm confused basically. :confused:

Yeah, you'll be confused for a while. It just takes time to work this sort of thing through in your head. There's no magic short cuts, it'll just take you as long as it takes. All you can really do to make it easier is try not to stress out about it and try to be ok with not being sure.

Reply 792

I feel I've opened a door to a whole new world - which is really exciting but also I'm scared and tempted to shut the door because I've been having all sorts of thoughts about my gender and sexuality. I've been thinking about transvestitism and wondering Do I find men attractive? I don't know ... this seems to be a serious issue. I can't just start wearing womens clothes and dating men .. I don't know anything about being gay or a tranny. A part of me still wants to fit in with the male norms in society a part of me just wants to let my fantasy fly. :confused:

I can't bring myself to seriously consider being a transvestite and although I find men attractive the thought of having sex with a man is repulsive. This is going to take time to make up my mind ****. I do think I'm a woman though I always have.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 793

fallen_acorns

20

Original post by Arketec

I feel I've opened a door to a whole new world - which is really exciting but also I'm scared and tempted to shut the door because I've been having all sorts of thoughts about my gender and sexuality. I've been thinking about transvestitism and wondering Do I find men attractive? I don't know ... this seems to be a serious issue. I can't just start wearing womens clothes and dating men .. I don't know anything about being gay or a tranny. A part of me still wants to fit in with the male norms in society a part of me just wants to let my fantasy fly. :confused:

I can't bring myself to seriously consider being a transvestite and although I find men attractive the thought of having sex with a man is repulsive. This is going to take time to make up my mind ****. I do think I'm a woman though I always have.

couple of things:

Transvestite and transgender are not the same,

A transvestite is someone who is a man, and identifies as such - but likes to dress like a women.

Transgender is someone whose gender is that of the oposite sex, so you may have a male body, but your gender/mind is female, and often because of this you experiance dyshporia (though not always)

Neither of these is linked to your sexuality though, at all.

By being trans, you dont have to sleep with men, or women..

You can still be gay, bisexual, straight, sleep with men, women, or anything.. - none of it is linked with your gender/transsexuality :smile:

- also tranny isnt a nice word :redface:

Reply 794

Original post by Arketec

I feel I've opened a door to a whole new world - which is really exciting but also I'm scared and tempted to shut the door because I've been having all sorts of thoughts about my gender and sexuality. I've been thinking about transvestitism and wondering Do I find men attractive? I don't know ... this seems to be a serious issue. I can't just start wearing womens clothes and dating men .. I don't know anything about being gay or a tranny. A part of me still wants to fit in with the male norms in society a part of me just wants to let my fantasy fly. :confused:

I can't bring myself to seriously consider being a transvestite and although I find men attractive the thought of having sex with a man is repulsive. This is going to take time to make up my mind ****. I do think I'm a woman though I always have.

What fallen_acorns said. I suspect you'd benefit from some 101 type information. Tvox is probably as good a place as any.

Reply 795

I read the tvox information page. I don't think it's me at all - I don't want a sex change, the women's clothes I wore could hardly be described as anything more than unisex and I wasn't assigned an opposite gender role when I was young. I just think I'm a woman, but not all the time. TBH I suffer from mental illness and I have a lot of personality issues - being a woman is just one of them. I enjoy being feminine and I definitely feel more myself when I do. I also enjoy having the body of a man. I don't know what else to say apart from I'm sorry about using the word tranny. :confused:

Reply 796

Anonymous #20

Original post by Arketec

I read the tvox information page. I don't think it's me at all - I don't want a sex change, the women's clothes I wore could hardly be described as anything more than unisex and I wasn't assigned an opposite gender role when I was young. I just think I'm a woman, but not all the time. TBH I suffer from mental illness and I have a lot of personality issues - being a woman is just one of them. I enjoy being feminine and I definitely feel more myself when I do. I also enjoy having the body of a man. I don't know what else to say apart from I'm sorry about using the word tranny. :confused:

Hmm. Genderqueer, perhaps? :holmes:

Reply 797