The big &quot;Evaluate My Routine&quot; thread

I slipped a disc about 18 months ago so I'm just staying away from deadlifts, and from what advice I've been given, and what advice I've read about, I'm sticking to front squats but not even attempting to go as heavy as I could.

I play a lot of rugby so I've added an explosive day which is a bit more specific conditioning I guess, as I'm taking out deadlifts.

My current workout plan that I've been following the past 5-6 weeks is as follows:

Day A -

Flat barbell press 5x5
Incline barbell press 4x5
Weighted pull ups 3x6
Skullcrushers 5x10
Tricep pushdown 5x8

Day B -

Front Squats 5x5
Spit squats 5x8
Lunge squats 3x5
(Then weather depending):
40kgf Tyre pulls 3x50m
Box jumps 3x5
Farmers walk 3x70m
Tyre flips 3x10

Day C -

Overhead press 5x5
Barbell Rows 5x5
One arm dumbbell rows 5x5
Lat pulldowns 5x8
Bicep curl EZ 5x10
BW Chin ups 3x10

Day D - a bit of an extra day. Not sure whether I should repeat bench/OHP on this day every other week or not

Front Squat 5x5
Explosive Jammer press 5x10
Power cleans 3x3 (Not sure how these are on my back yet, keeping it light regardless)
Body weight explosive exercises + medicine ball throws
Stretching and deep core exercises

Reply 463

Original post by Daniel69

Hi, I'm 17 and about 5 foot 5 and i weigh around about a very poor 57kg.

Im quite worried about my weight is this too low? if so how could i improve it? because i know that simply "eating more" will help. :s-smilie:

Anyway as this is a routine thread heres mine:
I've been weightlifting for a while (about 1 and a half years) i find myself to have a "toned" body even though most people consider a skinny guy with abs NOTHING to be proud about.

Monday: Mike Chang 16 minute body workout for beginners
Tuesday: Rest
Wednesday: Gym at college for 1hr 30 mins either doing bench press, squats, machines and dumbbells maybe some bike cardio.
Thursday: I play basketball so training is usually this day for 2 hrs cardio/pressups
Friday: Gym at college doing the same workout
Saturday: at work so im standing up all day
Sunday:Rest

If anyone has any ideas i could use to improve my workout that would be helpful thanks!! :smile:

My general goals are to gain mass, be quicker + stronger for basketball next season and to gain weight, preferably 70kg+ by the end of the summer!

GO GO GO!!

Several things -
1) Mike Chang is the biggest money grabbing liar out there - his workouts are bs and he gives very bad advice with the aim of selling his bs red pre workout
2) Mike Chang is not natural and he doesn't use his own routines
3) You need to do something more proper as a routine than "maybe this maybe that" - I strongly suggest you check out Starting Strength, Strong Lifts 5x5 and ICF 5x5 as routines to fit with lifting 3x a week. You can work your cardio around it :smile:

4) You need to eat more to bulk- 57kg is very light tbh - use a TDEE calculator and eat 2-500 calories over that a day eating 1-1.5g of protein per kg of bodyweight per day. Using a calorie counter like Myfitnesspal or LivestrongMyPlate would be ideal for you :smile:

Hope this helps :smile:

Original post by ljoshl91

I slipped a disc about 18 months ago so I'm just staying away from deadlifts, and from what advice I've been given, and what advice I've read about, I'm sticking to front squats but not even attempting to go as heavy as I could.

I play a lot of rugby so I've added an explosive day which is a bit more specific conditioning I guess, as I'm taking out deadlifts.

My current workout plan that I've been following the past 5-6 weeks is as follows:

Day A -

Flat barbell press 5x5
Incline barbell press 4x5
Weighted pull ups 3x6
Skullcrushers 5x10
Tricep pushdown 5x8

Day B -

Front Squats 5x5
Spit squats 5x8
Lunge squats 3x5
(Then weather depending):
40kgf Tyre pulls 3x50m
Box jumps 3x5
Farmers walk 3x70m
Tyre flips 3x10

Day C -

Overhead press 5x5
Barbell Rows 5x5
One arm dumbbell rows 5x5
Lat pulldowns 5x8
Bicep curl EZ 5x10
BW Chin ups 3x10

Day D - a bit of an extra day. Not sure whether I should repeat bench/OHP on this day every other week or not

Front Squat 5x5
Explosive Jammer press 5x10
Power cleans 3x3 (Not sure how these are on my back yet, keeping it light regardless)
Body weight explosive exercises + medicine ball throws
Stretching and deep core exercises

You had treatment for your back? I've got a disc problem... I can't do any type of squat due to the spinal compression, however I can deadlift fine. If you can flip tyres and play rugby you can certainly deadlift! Also your volume is so high on leg day and others is way too high and far from optimal.
If you find you can deadlift and front squat - I'd recommend Starting Strength or SL5x5 as both were made for athletic performance and it will help with your rugby :smile:

If you want more hypertrophy style training then check out ICF5x5

Reply 464

Original post by Angry cucumber

You had treatment for your back? I've got a disc problem... I can't do any type of squat due to the spinal compression, however I can deadlift fine. If you can flip tyres and play rugby you can certainly deadlift! Also your volume is so high on leg day and others is way too high and far from optimal.
If you find you can deadlift and front squat - I'd recommend Starting Strength or SL5x5 as both were made for athletic performance and it will help with your rugby :smile:

If you want more hypertrophy style training then check out ICF5x5

Hi mate, yeah had quite a lot of treatment from various physios and a chiropractor more recently too. I've had a lot of hip flexor and glute weaknesses as a result of the problem as well so I'm relatively weak in my deep core around there.

In regards to the volume I could do with some help here. I'm pretty new to lifting heavy - in the past I've just done a lot of body weight and core stuff to keep me conditioned but I'm looking to really push myself over the next few years and increase my strength and size.

I tried to make a programme that kind incorporates all the 'core' lifts (except deadlift) with some extras just to pump the volume up a bit, as I have the time. Which exercises do you think I should take out or at least spread out more?

I'm kind of the opposite to you I can do front squats without aggravating my back however I'm avoiding back squats as it induces a lot worse compression as you mentioned. I'm working comfortably at 100 kg on front squats for 5 sets and I'm reluctant to go any high for a long time until I've tested my back out over several months.

I can't deadlift heavy at all -that really aggravates my back so I've been told just to steer clear of them. I've actually had a bit of problems from doing too many tyre flips but I'm keeping the weight quite low so It's more been about a whole body explosion rather than just 'deadlifting' it up if that makes sense.

Cheers, Josh

Edit - even barbell row, because of the strong position you have to be in, niggles me abit. I only recently started incorporating that into my plan as I was struggling with the form, and instead I was choosing to do OHP/one arm db rows / jammer press / lat pull downs on DAY C

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 465

Original post by ljoshl91

Hi mate, yeah had quite a lot of treatment from various physios and a chiropractor more recently too. I've had a lot of hip flexor and glute weaknesses as a result of the problem as well so I'm relatively weak in my deep core around there.

I know this feeling.. if you can do them - ab rollouts hit your whole core pretty damn hard. I can tolerate them once a weak with my back

In regards to the volume I could do with some help here. I'm pretty new to lifting heavy - in the past I've just done a lot of body weight and core stuff to keep me conditioned but I'm looking to really push myself over the next few years and increase my strength and size.

I tried to make a programme that kind incorporates all the 'core' lifts (except deadlift) with some extras just to pump the volume up a bit, as I have the time. Which exercises do you think I should take out or at least spread out more?

I'll write down the one I was doing before my knee decided to explode when I did some leg extension machine work (never do that machine, 6 weeks later my knee is still ****ed)

I'm kind of the opposite to you I can do front squats without aggravating my back however I'm avoiding back squats as it induces a lot worse compression as you mentioned. I'm working comfortably at 100 kg on front squats for 5 sets and I'm reluctant to go any high for a long time until I've tested my back out over several months.

If thats to legit depth then that's damn good going with a bad back :biggrin:

(a lot of guys don't get to parallel doing front squats - there's a technique guide thread on the main part of the fitness forum that will help with this should you be concerned with form ever - post a vid and someone will get back to you :smile:

)

I can't deadlift heavy at all -that really aggravates my back so I've been told just to steer clear of them. I've actually had a bit of problems from doing too many tyre flips but I'm keeping the weight quite low so It's more been about a whole body explosion rather than just 'deadlifting' it up if that makes sense.

Cheers, Josh

Fair enough mate, if you can barbell row or pendley row then thats great

Bastardising my previous routine for you (based on SS and ICF) would be along the lines of

I've put i front squats for you where I did split squats previously :smile:

A - Front squat: 3x5/ 5x5
Bench - 3x5/ 5x5
Hamstring curls (if you have the machine) if not sliding leg curls - 3x8
As you can't deadlift but can row -> Barbell rows 3x5
Then do some core work and some additional tricep work - both of them aim for 3x8 to 3x12 :smile:

Take your pick on the exercise
Then if you still feel up to it - do whatever the hell you want (within reason) I love pullups and chin ups so I do them here :smile:

B - Front squat 3x5/ 5x5
OHP 3x5/ 5x5
Chin ups/ pullups (if you can) - I tend to do weighted triples and 5's but work out whats best for you. Don't add weight until you can do 8 deadhang chins/ pullups though :smile:

Barbell row -10% of workout A for 3x5/5x5
Then something like some lateral raises or some light DB OHP for 3x8 (stay light DBs for lateral raises - people get caught up in making progression on them - Jonnie Candito who's an elite level powerlifter doesn't go beyond the 20kgs.. keep that in mind)
Then do some core work again with some curlz for the gurlz for 3x8
Then again whatever

It's not a perfect routine but tbh it covers all bases really, I alternate workouts 3-4 times a week
Problem with having so many sets in your routine is that you'll fatigue greatly + all that leg volume is liable to make you throw up. You risk over training and/ or being very sore the next day, some times multiple days and then you're other lifting days will suffer.

Anyways, I'm not an expert but I made good gains on it, before I daftly injured my self.

Take your pick between 3x5 and 5x5 - I personally prefer 3x5 progression but it's individual as far as I can see. For accessorry movements - get from 3x8-> 3x12 before adding more weight.

Good luck mate :smile:

Edit: Just seen your edit -> You might like pendley rows better. Barbell rowing niggles me but I can do it. DB rows also are good :smile:

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 466

Original post by Angry cucumber

.

Cheers dude! Definitely a lot to think about as I can see I'm trying to do a bit too much at the minute. The one thing I dislike about the 5x5 programme is mixing the movements up so much. When I do chest or back/shoulders I really like to blast it out but that's really more of a body building mentality isn't it I guess, rather than increasing my strength gains?

Maybe I should just adopt pretty much the standard 5x5 until I've increased my OHP/BB row and Bench stats up to a good base level before changing to push/pull/leg or chest/back/shoulders/legs or similar.

At the moment, so you know what kind of level I'm at, I'm working at the following:

Bench 5x5 - Warm up, warm up, 80, 80, 80, 82.5 85
OHP - Warm up, warm up, 50, 50, 50, 52.5, 52.5
BB rows - warm up, warm up, 65, 65, 70, 70, 70

Don't know any 1 rep maxes or any of that stuff all I know is the weight I can do with 5 reps over 5 sets, that is pushing me hard, at the moment.

It's hard to change the 5x5 standard plan because the slot that would normally be deadlift has to be something else, and also I don't want to be squatting three times a week, so that has to change too, so that leaves two spaces over a three day plan if you get me, or else I'll be doing the same movement two workouts in a row (as you put in your suggestion, do BB row but 10% lighter the following workout), and then the following workout I'll be an exercise short, and so on!

That's why I was trying to spit my workout into chest/ back and shoulders / legs. Maybe I need some kind of mid point between the two by doing squats on each of my chest / back+shoulders days.

This would mean doing a weekly plan of 4 days

So it would look something like this:

Week 1
Monday - Flat bench 5x5, Squats, Incline bench 3x5, Triceps 3x10
Wednesday - OHP 5x5, BB Rows 5x5 + Biceps 3x10
Friday - Bench 5x5, Squats 5x5, Weighted pull ups 5x6
Sunday - OHP 5x5, BB Rows 5x5, Lat pull downs 5x8, Jammer press 5x10

And then the same in week 2 but just on different days due..

Week 2
Tuesday - Flat bench 5x5, Squats 5x5, Incline bench 3x5, Triceps 3x10
Thursday- OHP 5x5, BB Rows 5x5 + Biceps 3x10
Saturday- Bench 5x5, Squats 5x5, Weighted pull ups 5x6
Monday - OHP 5x5, BB Rows 5x5, Lat pull downs 5x8, Jammer press 5x10

Do you see what I mean by having to take out a dead lift + a Squat? To make sure I don't do an exercise twice in a row I have to just spread it out a bit more and throw in a couple of extras such as lat pull downs, pull ups and jammer press

Reply 467

Original post by ljoshl91

Cheers dude! Definitely a lot to think about as I can see I'm trying to do a bit too much at the minute. The one thing I dislike about the 5x5 programme is mixing the movements up so much. When I do chest or back/shoulders I really like to blast it out but that's really more of a body building mentality isn't it I guess, rather than increasing my strength gains?

I know what you mean and is a common thought. The problem with doing this, is that it achieves less than hitting everything more often. Once you've benched and done some tricep work... no matter how much more you do... you aren't going to increase the amount of hypertrophy you get by anything substantial. Hitting things multiple times a week (so in the above you're hitting your triceps every workout and chest is involved in standing OHP) you keep yourself in the "growth" phase of muscle building.

Maybe I should just adopt pretty much the standard 5x5 until I've increased my OHP/BB row and Bench stats up to a good base level before changing to push/pull/leg or chest/back/shoulders/legs or similar.

Tbh I see nothing wrong in PPL .. however if you can hack the intensity.. splitting everything into Push/ Pull is very effective.

At the moment, so you know what kind of level I'm at, I'm working at the following:

Bench 5x5 - Warm up, warm up, 80, 80, 80, 82.5 85
OHP - Warm up, warm up, 50, 50, 50, 52.5, 52.5
BB rows - warm up, warm up, 65, 65, 70, 70, 70

Don't know any 1 rep maxes or any of that stuff all I know is the weight I can do with 5 reps over 5 sets, that is pushing me hard, at the moment.

Those are more ramping sets, which are good, but the 5x5 I'm talking about - when I say 3x5 - it's the same weight you pick for all your 3 or 5 sets and progress from there.
Decent bench - come over to the bench competition and enter on the fitness blogs :biggrin:

It's hard to change the 5x5 standard plan because the slot that would normally be deadlift has to be something else, and also I don't want to be squatting three times a week, so that has to change too, so that leaves two spaces over a three day plan if you get me, or else I'll be doing the same movement two workouts in a row (as you put in your suggestion, do BB row but 10% lighter the following workout), and then the following workout I'll be an exercise short, and so on!

Fair enough to not wanting to squat 3x a week, twice would be sufficient.

That's why I was trying to spit my workout into chest/ back and shoulders / legs. Maybe I need some kind of mid point between the two by doing squats on each of my chest / back+shoulders days.

This would mean doing a weekly plan of 4 days

So it would look something like this:

Week 1
Monday - Flat bench 5x5, Squats, Incline bench 3x5, Triceps 3x10
Wednesday - OHP 5x5, BB Rows 5x5 + Biceps 3x10
Friday - Bench 5x5, Squats 5x5, Weighted pull ups 5x6
Sunday - OHP 5x5, BB Rows 5x5, Lat pull downs 5x8, Jammer press 5x10

And then the same in week 2 but just on different days due..

Week 2
Tuesday - Flat bench 5x5, Squats 5x5, Incline bench 3x5, Triceps 3x10
Thursday- OHP 5x5, BB Rows 5x5 + Biceps 3x10
Saturday- Bench 5x5, Squats 5x5, Weighted pull ups 5x6
Monday - OHP 5x5, BB Rows 5x5, Lat pull downs 5x8, Jammer press 5x10

Do you see what I mean by having to take out a dead lift + a Squat? To make sure I don't do an exercise twice in a row I have to just spread it out a bit more and throw in a couple of extras such as lat pull downs, pull ups and jammer press

I'm a fan of fullbody and hence recommend it. Fyi - go for 3x8-12 and 5x5/ 3x5 those extra sets really aren't needed and if you're going heavy enough you won't feel able to do more sets of them. Those massive volume stuff you see promoted a lot are from "natural" guys who really aren't natty and don't train like a natural would.

If you didn't want to do the same stuff in a row.... just do the programme I was doing, just remove the squats on B. That way it kind of balances you out a bit more :smile:

Reply 468

illusionz

Original post by Angry cucumber

For accessorry movements - get from 3x8-> 3x12 before adding more weight.

Why am I not doing this currently. Derp.

Reply 469

illusionz

Original post by ljoshl91

x

At the risk of repeating what cucumber has been saying:

Full body workouts are ideal for anyone who can recover in 48 hours. The more often you can work each muscle group the more gains you make. Bodybuilding style splits (back/bis, chest/tris, shoulders, legs) are bad for novice lifters. If you're not an elite level bodybuilder then don't try to train like one.

You give the impression of being a relative novice but you lift (read: bench) a decent amount (although your bench/row ratio is very skewed towards a big bench). If you are indeed a relative novice then you don't really need the volume your current routine gives (heck even some very experienced lifters just lift heavy and few reps/sets).

I was a complete noob 4 months ago and have made pretty big gains following a full body 5x5 routine (ICF). Would recommend.

As for your squat/DL issues, I'd squat on the row -10% days and perhaps do some leg press or something on the full row weight days (make it easier on your back). As for deadlifts you could just do machine hamstring/glute stuff.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 470

george123go

Original post by Inkerman

Hi, I was wondering if you guys could give me some feedback, I'm relatively new to weightlifting (2 months now)

My goal is to build some mass and lose fat, I'm eating about 5-10% calories less than I should to maintain by weight, and I make sure I get the required daily amount of protein for my body weight (140g protein). I would describe myself as a tall skinny-fat guy.

I'm using a 3 day split, working out ONLY at home, hence I haven't included some potentially dangerous exercises because I don't have a spotter (inc barbell bench press and squats)

Day 1: Chest/Triceps/Shoulders

Dumbell press 4x 8-12 reps
Incline Dumbell press 4x 8-12 reps
Barbel shoulder press 4x 8-12 reps
Dumbell flys 4x 8-12 reps
Skull crushers 4x 8-12 reps (love these :biggrin:

)

Day 2: Back/Biceps

One armed dumbell rows 4x 8-12 reps (god i love these too)
Barbell bent over rows 4x 8-12 reps
barbell bicep curls 4x 8-12 reps
cardio (6-7k run/jog on treadmill)

I want to do pullups but I'm too god dam weak at the moment, maybe I should do negative pullups??? Or is there something else I can add into here?

Day 3: Legs

Deadlift 4x 12-20 reps
Squats with a heavy dumbell 4x 12-20 reps (i dont have a squat rack at home, and again no spotter)
Lunges 4x 8-12 reps
Core/abs workout

Day 4: Rest or repeat cycle depending on how i feel

Does anyone have any advice for me? Or I have missed anything?

Thanks

Inkerman

As a competitive powerlifter I would highly recommend a 3 day a week full body routine such as this http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/jason-blaha-ice-cream-fitness-5x5-novice-workout

Reply 471

george123go

Original post by Daniel69

Hi, I'm 17 and about 5 foot 5 and i weigh around about a very poor 57kg.

Im quite worried about my weight is this too low? if so how could i improve it? because i know that simply "eating more" will help. :s-smilie:

Anyway as this is a routine thread heres mine:
I've been weightlifting for a while (about 1 and a half years) i find myself to have a "toned" body even though most people consider a skinny guy with abs NOTHING to be proud about.

Monday: Mike Chang 16 minute body workout for beginners
Tuesday: Rest
Wednesday: Gym at college for 1hr 30 mins either doing bench press, squats, machines and dumbbells maybe some bike cardio.
Thursday: I play basketball so training is usually this day for 2 hrs cardio/pressups
Friday: Gym at college doing the same workout
Saturday: at work so im standing up all day
Sunday:Rest

If anyone has any ideas i could use to improve my workout that would be helpful thanks!! :smile:

My general goals are to gain mass, be quicker + stronger for basketball next season and to gain weight, preferably 70kg+ by the end of the summer!

GO GO GO!!

I am a competitive powerlifter and you should be doing a 3 day a week full body strength training routine which focusses on the 3 big lifts such as this program http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/jason-blaha-ice-cream-fitness-5x5-novice-workout

Reply 472

Original post by illusionz

x

Original post by Angry cucumber

x

My session tonight was pretty horrible - did bench squats and BB rows + Pull ups.

My lower back started hurting mid way through my squats so I stopped a set early. Decided I should just go for the BB rows and went two sets before my back quite clearly wasn't responding very well to it, so switched to bent over one arm rows.

I think I need to get more injury specific advice from my clubs physio in regards to the movements I personally should be avoiding. Squating has been fine for the past month or so but as I started BB rows last week I'm pretty sure it's niggled me again. I've read around and apparently BB rows really aren't great for people with weak lower backs.

Going to just see how it feels by Tuesday and just stick to bench/ohp/pull ups/isolations until I can get some proper advice.

If I take BB rows (+pentlay for now) out, would one arm dumbell rows + pull ups / Jammer press be a decent short term solution to target back? I use my clubs gym so don't have any machines like cable rows or T bar.

Squats I'll see how I feel, maybe just go really light or use some other light variations for now. Biking too and from the gym up a massive hill is a leg workout in itself though!

Reply 473

Original post by ljoshl91

My session tonight was pretty horrible - did bench squats and BB rows + Pull ups.

My lower back started hurting mid way through my squats so I stopped a set early. Decided I should just go for the BB rows and went two sets before my back quite clearly wasn't responding very well to it, so switched to bent over one arm rows.

I think I need to get more injury specific advice from my clubs physio in regards to the movements I personally should be avoiding. Squating has been fine for the past month or so but as I started BB rows last week I'm pretty sure it's niggled me again. I've read around and apparently BB rows really aren't great for people with weak lower backs.

Going to just see how it feels by Tuesday and just stick to bench/ohp/pull ups/isolations until I can get some proper advice.

If I take BB rows (+pentlay for now) out, would one arm dumbell rows + pull ups / Jammer press be a decent short term solution to target back? I use my clubs gym so don't have any machines like cable rows or T bar.

Squats I'll see how I feel, maybe just go really light or use some other light variations for now. Biking too and from the gym up a massive hill is a leg workout in itself though!

Start off light with the barbell rows.. you need to get used to it imo... also do some core work - if you have cables then do pavloff press. Stronger core = stronger back

DB rows, pull ups are good but you'll not have anything for your lower back and you don't want that to become any weaker. Maybe just do barbell rows and not on your squat days once a week to start off with or try pendleys if you haven't already.

Biking might aggravate your back due to the shear stress put on your back whilst cycling.

Reply 474

illusionz

Original post by fordfiesta

Thoughts and feedback welcome please...

Monday - back/bis - deadlifts, pull-ups, chin-ups, bent over dumbbell rows, curls
Tuesday - cycle to work c.20km
Wednesday - chest/tris - flat dumbbell bench press, incline dumbbell bench press, cable flys, dips, cable tricep pull-downs
Thursday - cycle to work c.20km
Friday - legs - leg press, bulgarian split squats, leg extensions, leg curls, calf press
Saturday - rest/light cardio
Sunday - shoulders and traps - shoulder press, arnold press, lateral raises, front raises, rear delt flys, shrugs, face pulls.

All of these are 8-10 reps, with 3 sets of each.

Looking for scrutiny and improvements...

Thanks

You're asking for advice which suggests you are a beginner. If you are a beginner then you should train like one. You are not an advanced lifter so you will not make optimal progress doing a body part split.

Find a full body routine, depending on your goals then check out starting strength, stronglifts 5x5 or ice cream fitness 5x5 (among others)

There is a ton of information available explaining why full body workouts are better than splits for a beginner so I won't repeat it all - it's a very quick google search away.

Reply 475

The_Blade

6

What's the difference between 5x5 sl, jasons 5x5 and ss in terms of gains

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 476