Is University worth it?
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Original post by Bettypratchit
To be honest I think it still is worth is because when you think about it most of the 'professional' jobs people have they have degrees alongside their experience. Not only does a degree help you, but at university on the chosen course it further allows you to generate contacts that may just help you in the future. In today's job market people get a position more likely in my opinion via contacts and people they know over qualifications sometimes.
Also what most people don't seem to realise is that the student loan that you will get from university doesn't really affect you negatively, in my opinion a student loan is not a real loan. Simply because it doesn't affect you getting morgages or your credit rating, you only pay off what you can afford per month- I think I saw some where that if you earned £21,000 - £25,000 per year you would only pay £30 per month- which you can see is hardly anything! Plus the loan gets wiped off after so many years completely so you won't be paying it off all your life. Basically you don't pay back anything until you earn over £21,000 and if you lose your job etc for any reason you don't pay anything back until you can afford to again!
Sorry for going off the point slightly and good luck!!
Also what most people don't seem to realise is that the student loan that you will get from university doesn't really affect you negatively, in my opinion a student loan is not a real loan. Simply because it doesn't affect you getting morgages or your credit rating, you only pay off what you can afford per month- I think I saw some where that if you earned £21,000 - £25,000 per year you would only pay £30 per month- which you can see is hardly anything! Plus the loan gets wiped off after so many years completely so you won't be paying it off all your life. Basically you don't pay back anything until you earn over £21,000 and if you lose your job etc for any reason you don't pay anything back until you can afford to again!
Sorry for going off the point slightly and good luck!!
You pay 9% of everything you earn over 21Kpa, either until it is paid off or 30 years elapses. So the math is easy in terms of what you will pay each month for a given salary. The interest payments are also published so a quick spreadsheet (or recurrance equation) will tell you how much you will pay back for a given starting salary, which is incremented by inflation each year (excluding promotions and moving jobs to get an increase) and whether you will clear the loan or end up having it wiped out after 30 years.
Whether it is worth it is a very personal thing, unless you are entering a career for which graduate status is mandatory to gain entry at which point the whole thing becomes binary.
Original post by Mr Dangermouse
The whole experience of being a student.
Which I presume you have been up to the point of entry to university???
The way I see it, university is worth it if you love studying and know you won't be happy unless you're working a job you love. With debt, it's entirely worth it. Not only will you not pay back the full amount because very little people do in under 30 years, look at it this way.
If you get a job which you love and it provides you with a nice house, a nice car, or holidays or whatever else and the comfort and security in life, then paying back very little each week won't bother you. & if you don't get a well paying job, then just know you won't be paying back the debt at all. You won't get rent collectors at your door taking your things out your house if you don't pay it back. It's all down to whether or not you enjoy studying, learning new things and a specific subject you want to major in in life and therefore work one day in the industry of your chosen subject. It entirely depends how bothered you are by what career you get out of it in the end. You also have to take into consideration though that a degree is worthless at times if you don't do work experience, build up your CV and do internships. These are so important to employers and both work experience and a degree will make you stand out in the crowd.
University isn't like college or sixth form where you work for it then get your A levels then automatically get into the university of your choice or wherever else does your course. You have to have structure and build on the building blocks as a person and on your CV to come out of university and do well. This may not apply to all degrees, but most of them.
Take complete advantage and grab the opportunities university provides. Whether it work experience, or travelling with your societies, or just the social scene in general where you make contacts and meet people who inspire you to do well in life and go down other paths in academics to better yourself and better your horizons. It costs 9 grand a year, so go out there and don't ignore the help university provides for you to do well and all the opportunities it offers that no where else does. University is only a waste if you do something because you believe it will be a fluke and you ignore what the university can provide for you both in employment and in life. Go in there with all guns blazing and you'll have an incredible time.
If you get a job which you love and it provides you with a nice house, a nice car, or holidays or whatever else and the comfort and security in life, then paying back very little each week won't bother you. & if you don't get a well paying job, then just know you won't be paying back the debt at all. You won't get rent collectors at your door taking your things out your house if you don't pay it back. It's all down to whether or not you enjoy studying, learning new things and a specific subject you want to major in in life and therefore work one day in the industry of your chosen subject. It entirely depends how bothered you are by what career you get out of it in the end. You also have to take into consideration though that a degree is worthless at times if you don't do work experience, build up your CV and do internships. These are so important to employers and both work experience and a degree will make you stand out in the crowd.
University isn't like college or sixth form where you work for it then get your A levels then automatically get into the university of your choice or wherever else does your course. You have to have structure and build on the building blocks as a person and on your CV to come out of university and do well. This may not apply to all degrees, but most of them.
Take complete advantage and grab the opportunities university provides. Whether it work experience, or travelling with your societies, or just the social scene in general where you make contacts and meet people who inspire you to do well in life and go down other paths in academics to better yourself and better your horizons. It costs 9 grand a year, so go out there and don't ignore the help university provides for you to do well and all the opportunities it offers that no where else does. University is only a waste if you do something because you believe it will be a fluke and you ignore what the university can provide for you both in employment and in life. Go in there with all guns blazing and you'll have an incredible time.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by SugarPuddle
The way I see it, university is worth it if you love studying and know you won't be happy unless you're working a job you love. With debt, it's entirely worth it. Not only will you not pay back the full amount because very little people do in under 30 years, look at it this way.
So what if you really hated studying? And also wasn't very good at it? Is it not worth it then?
Original post by CherryCherryBoomBoom
So what if you really hated studying? And also wasn't very good at it? Is it not worth it then?
I'm talking in cases where people have to decide between which is better for them, full time employment or studying. I for one enjoy studying and learning new things, hence why I'm going to university but there are other reasons why I'm going (a job I really want and I need a degree to get it). I just think the people who enjoy their course more and what comes with it will have more enthusiasm to do better than those who dread lectures and the exams to such a point that they avoid it entirely.
I'm lucky enough to enjoy education to the extent I can get a better job out of it, those who loathe it will have a struggle and I don't envy them.
If you prefer employment, then perhaps working your way up to the top is more suited to you. After all, employment is just a ladder and the degree gets you up a few more steps, unless it's required such as a medical degree.
Original post by SugarPuddle
I'm talking in cases where people have to decide between which is better for them, full time employment or studying. I for one enjoy studying and learning new things, hence why I'm going to university but there are other reasons why I'm going (a job I really want and I need a degree to get it). I just think the people who enjoy their course more and what comes with it will have more enthusiasm to do better than those who dread lectures and the exams to such a point that they avoid it entirely.
I'm lucky enough to enjoy education to the extent I can get a better job out of it, those who loathe it will have a struggle and I don't envy them.
If you prefer employment, then perhaps working your way up to the top is more suited to you. After all, employment is just a ladder and the degree gets you up a few more steps, unless it's required such as a medical degree.
I'm lucky enough to enjoy education to the extent I can get a better job out of it, those who loathe it will have a struggle and I don't envy them.
If you prefer employment, then perhaps working your way up to the top is more suited to you. After all, employment is just a ladder and the degree gets you up a few more steps, unless it's required such as a medical degree.
Thank you for your helpful reply
. The thing is, I do quite like learning, just not so much in an academic sense. For example, I really like to Google things and spend ages reading articles on Wikipedia and stuff, but I loathe having to be tested in exams and coursework because for some reason I tend to be **** at them. Well, in GCSEs and A Levels anyway. Some vocational courses that I've tried I'm actually pretty decent at. I guess if you're someone who can work hard and get all top grades, you'd be happy about academics, but if you were someone who can work hard but only get mostly mediocre or low grades, you'd be rather unhappy about academics. And I suppose ending up with a crap degree would be worse than not having a degree at all.Original post by CherryCherryBoomBoom
Thank you for your helpful reply . The thing is, I do quite like learning, just not so much in an academic sense. For example, I really like to Google things and spend ages reading articles on Wikipedia and stuff, but I loathe having to be tested in exams and coursework because for some reason I tend to be **** at them. Well, in GCSEs and A Levels anyway. Some vocational courses that I've tried I'm actually pretty decent at. I guess if you're someone who can work hard and get all top grades, you'd be happy about academics, but if you were someone who can work hard but only get mostly mediocre or low grades, you'd be rather unhappy about academics. And I suppose ending up with a crap degree would be worse than not having a degree at all.
. The thing is, I do quite like learning, just not so much in an academic sense. For example, I really like to Google things and spend ages reading articles on Wikipedia and stuff, but I loathe having to be tested in exams and coursework because for some reason I tend to be **** at them. Well, in GCSEs and A Levels anyway. Some vocational courses that I've tried I'm actually pretty decent at. I guess if you're someone who can work hard and get all top grades, you'd be happy about academics, but if you were someone who can work hard but only get mostly mediocre or low grades, you'd be rather unhappy about academics. And I suppose ending up with a crap degree would be worse than not having a degree at all.I enjoy academics, like for example I had a passion for history. I went from having A's in GCSE to having E's at A level just because they didn't think my writing standard was up to it, even though I get A's in English Lit and Lan. A levels and testing can ruin subjects for you, and it sounds like you're keen to learn new things and expand your mind. You just have to decide which degree will allow you to do that. Photography is all coursework I believe, no exams and Media Studies (which I'm doing) has both exams and coursework in.
And ending up with a crap degree would be worse than having no degree at all? Are you kidding? Firstly all degrees are worthless unless you take some time to work on your skills in employment, such as by volunteering and learning new skills that way, or doing work experience, shadowing or internships. You could go to Oxford and do one of their best degrees and then not get a job afterwards because you've not built up your CV and skills in the work place. Employers don't care about where you go, just show you're passionate to work and work in a particular field and you will get a job afterwards. People could go into medical neuroscience and then end up working at McDonalds, it's all on how committed you are to work hard both in and outside the classroom and how hard you're willing to work to get where you want. Like I said, it's a ladder.
Also, going to university is an experience. You could end up meeting great contacts who one day land you the best job you'll ever have. You could go to university and find something else you're interested in and go down that path instead and end up in a job you never thought you would. University is not a waste of time unless you don't think you're going to try. If you don't think you will be bothered to do work experience that the uni offers, or build up your cv and you just plan to bunk off and party the whole time, then yes it's worthless unless you're only going with the intention to have fun. No degree is worthless if you find the right contacts and work hard enough to go into employment afterwards. Like I said, you don't work your ass off for three years and then get the golden ticket to go into a great job, you have to climb the ladder yourself taking the opportunities university provides you.
If you're worried about debt, don't be. You won't start paying it off for a long time and when you do, you pay it off in tiny, tiny amounts. Then it gets wiped after 30 years whether you've finished paying for it or not.
Just look at it this way. No degree is pointless, you are in complete control of how your life turns out afterwards. Don't want to go into overdraft because you're planning to travel afterwards? Then get a job at uni or save up before university by getting a job for a year. Don't want to end up unemployed? Then do as much volunteering, work experience and internships as you can (best time is the first and second year because the third year you get so weighed down with the amount of work you're expected to do). Don't want to end up in debt and/or pay back the government? Well how important is it that you get your desired career?
If there is really nothing at uni that interests you academically, then don't go. If you think you'll find yourself tied down with horrible commitments, when you could just be easily working for your own money straight away, then don't go. But if there is something of interest there for you, and you're willing to work for it, then go for it. Yes it's the principle of liking academics, but not everyone will enjoy it. Nobody enjoys exams. Just sometimes you have to do it to get further in life and experience life at a place where you're entirely surrounded by people from all over the globe where you will learn new things, experience new places and new talents and learn a lot about yourself and how many opportunities await you if you're willing to grab them first hand.
Another good way to decide is to go to a uni open day to see how it all works and see where you would be studying. Or you could just continue doing vocational courses as it sounds more for you. Don't go to uni for the sake of it, do what you feel is right.
Original post by SugarPuddle
...
Well, I meant crap degree as in, one that is a low grade, in a subject that is not widely respected and from a low ranking uni. I was just suggesting that maybe if spending all that time and money on such a degree won't pay off in the end, then it might be a better use of time to do something else like straight into training or employment? And that it's only worth really going to uni if you're going to get a good degree (which I know the definition of "good" in this case can be quite subjective, but that's a whole 'nother argument I guess...).
Thanks for this 2nd, also very good reply
It largely depends on the reasons for going.
If you go because you don't want to work and just want to spend a further three years in education because you don't know what you want to get out of it, then I'd say no.
If you go because you want to better your life and enjoy the subjects you're taking, then by all means go for it - but remember the fees are there either way. They will be manageable, but you'll have to consider whether you want to be paying all that money back for all that time once you graduate as it will be a considerable chunk out of your wages.
If you go because you don't want to work and just want to spend a further three years in education because you don't know what you want to get out of it, then I'd say no.
If you go because you want to better your life and enjoy the subjects you're taking, then by all means go for it - but remember the fees are there either way. They will be manageable, but you'll have to consider whether you want to be paying all that money back for all that time once you graduate as it will be a considerable chunk out of your wages.
Original post by Jabberwox
It largely depends on the reasons for going.
If you go because you don't want to work and just want to spend a further three years in education because you don't know what you want to get out of it, then I'd say no.
If you go because you want to better your life and enjoy the subjects you're taking, then by all means go for it - but remember the fees are there either way. They will be manageable, but you'll have to consider whether you want to be paying all that money back for all that time once you graduate as it will be a considerable chunk out of your wages.
If you go because you don't want to work and just want to spend a further three years in education because you don't know what you want to get out of it, then I'd say no.
If you go because you want to better your life and enjoy the subjects you're taking, then by all means go for it - but remember the fees are there either way. They will be manageable, but you'll have to consider whether you want to be paying all that money back for all that time once you graduate as it will be a considerable chunk out of your wages.
It's only a considerable chunk out of your wages if you're earning over 80,000 pounds annually and only then do they take 200 pounds. If you're earning about 21 or 22 thousand a year, they only take out 8 pounds a month, sometimes even lower.
Original post by ipoop
I finished the apprenticeship last year. I never said I made £50 a year. 1k + AT does not = 50k a year. Me thinks uni is teaching you a lie in Maths. I'm now an assistant to the accounts department. I do a whole lot of work, most of which they will not teach you at uni. Also I work 4 days a week as I'm also taking a AAT course. This again highlights why I think the alternatives should also be emphasised upon. Like I said, I don't think you should go to uni if for example you want a job in marketing, although the reality is you have to if you want to make some good dosh, you should not, as this profession requires more working experience you would get from actually working rather than listening to Prof [insert name] talking about the marketing mix and whatnot. Then again I am only basing this on my personal experience(s), and what has worked for me. Take what you will from it.
I was considering school leavers' programme with PwC but their places dried up after i passed the first interview lol. Are you going to do the ACA?
In some ways it doesn't really matter whether or not you go to uni to become an accountant, but I chose to and here's why.
At the higher end firms (FTSE100) they like to see you've had a high degree of education, most internal audit roles for example ask for a bachelors degree. I understand that even if you had the AAT/ACA you still wouldn't get past the filter stage as the majority of chartered accountants come out of university - get degree and then do chartered training with big4 or another firm who is willing to train you etc.
Also, with AAT, I've heard the maximum you can earn is around £27,000 in London, £23,000 outside of it. Are you planning on doing chartered afterwards? If so, you do save the debt, but once you've qualified, the amount of money you'll pay back will literally be peanuts coming out your wage packet.
Original post by gonnabesomething
I was considering school leavers' programme with PwC but their places dried up after i passed the first interview lol. Are you going to do the ACA?
In some ways it doesn't really matter whether or not you go to uni to become an accountant, but I chose to and here's why.
At the higher end firms (FTSE100) they like to see you've had a high degree of education, most internal audit roles for example ask for a bachelors degree. I understand that even if you had the AAT/ACA you still wouldn't get past the filter stage as the majority of chartered accountants come out of university - get degree and then do chartered training with big4 or another firm who is willing to train you etc.
Also, with AAT, I've heard the maximum you can earn is around £27,000 in London, £23,000 outside of it. Are you planning on doing chartered afterwards? If so, you do save the debt, but once you've qualified, the amount of money you'll pay back will literally be peanuts coming out your wage packet.
In some ways it doesn't really matter whether or not you go to uni to become an accountant, but I chose to and here's why.
At the higher end firms (FTSE100) they like to see you've had a high degree of education, most internal audit roles for example ask for a bachelors degree. I understand that even if you had the AAT/ACA you still wouldn't get past the filter stage as the majority of chartered accountants come out of university - get degree and then do chartered training with big4 or another firm who is willing to train you etc.
Also, with AAT, I've heard the maximum you can earn is around £27,000 in London, £23,000 outside of it. Are you planning on doing chartered afterwards? If so, you do save the debt, but once you've qualified, the amount of money you'll pay back will literally be peanuts coming out your wage packet.
My father never went to university, he's a senior auditor with Tefonica UK, and has worked for a big4 and Unilever, Coca Cola.
I've actually just finished my exams, I do plan on becoming Chartered, I know graduates may have an edge over me but, I have experience, I don't plan on working here forever, so the university degree is not really something I wanted. And yes, debt free.
Original post by ipoop
My father never went to university, he's a senior auditor with Tefonica UK, and has worked for a big4 and Unilever, Coca Cola.
I've actually just finished my exams, I do plan on becoming Chartered, I know graduates may have an edge over me but, I have experience, I don't plan on working here forever, so the university degree is not really something I wanted. And yes, debt free.
I've actually just finished my exams, I do plan on becoming Chartered, I know graduates may have an edge over me but, I have experience, I don't plan on working here forever, so the university degree is not really something I wanted. And yes, debt free.
Good for you
Yeah, I guess it doesn't really matter for accountancy, whichever you prefer. I know most would probably love to have the chance to study something they are passionate about at uni before studying the ACA for 3 years. Let's face it, most don't do accounting cause it's fun lol. Are you heading to the big4 then? You'll definitely have a lot more experience with accountants etc than any graduate when they are 21, you'll be qualified when you're 23 so I guess it makes sense if someone was certain that was what they wanted.Original post by gonnabesomething
Good for you Yeah, I guess it doesn't really matter for accountancy, whichever you prefer. I know most would probably love to have the chance to study something they are passionate about at uni before studying the ACA for 3 years. Let's face it, most don't do accounting cause it's fun lol. Are you heading to the big4 then? You'll definitely have a lot more experience with accountants etc than any graduate when they are 21, you'll be qualified when you're 23 so I guess it makes sense if someone was certain that was what they wanted.
Yeah, I guess it doesn't really matter for accountancy, whichever you prefer. I know most would probably love to have the chance to study something they are passionate about at uni before studying the ACA for 3 years. Let's face it, most don't do accounting cause it's fun lol. Are you heading to the big4 then? You'll definitely have a lot more experience with accountants etc than any graduate when they are 21, you'll be qualified when you're 23 so I guess it makes sense if someone was certain that was what they wanted.Yea, I'm hoping to land a big4 before I'm 25 then by the time I'm 30 go to New York then 5 years later to France and retire there. Yea I do love what I do (still), I would honestly do it for free if I had other means of financing my life. I would like to be a financial advisers to small businesses, something I would like to do for free if I find a way of living, I hear Pipa Myddleton is single?
I did some maths( rough one ):
Let's say I am EU student and after three years I have 27k debt. However, it will be over 30k after three years because RPI + 3% still applies.
Next. I get a job which pays 30k ( not quite realistic for a graduate ). Then I will pay back 9% of 30k - 21k = 9k and it is 810 pounds.
Last time I saw that interest every year would be something between 0 and 3% + inflation ( because of 30k salary ). So if you owe 32k for example, that means your debt will grow ( I'll take interest as 7% because of recent inflation) to 34k + . And you pay back 810 pounds back. That means you did not pay back any loan at all because interest is higher than amount paid back.
It scares a bit. Looking forward to the future, who can guarantee that we will not be expected to pay back all the loans? T&C declaration mentions that they can change rules. Just a bit of thoughts...
Let's say I am EU student and after three years I have 27k debt. However, it will be over 30k after three years because RPI + 3% still applies.
Next. I get a job which pays 30k ( not quite realistic for a graduate ). Then I will pay back 9% of 30k - 21k = 9k and it is 810 pounds.
Last time I saw that interest every year would be something between 0 and 3% + inflation ( because of 30k salary ). So if you owe 32k for example, that means your debt will grow ( I'll take interest as 7% because of recent inflation) to 34k + . And you pay back 810 pounds back. That means you did not pay back any loan at all because interest is higher than amount paid back.
It scares a bit. Looking forward to the future, who can guarantee that we will not be expected to pay back all the loans? T&C declaration mentions that they can change rules. Just a bit of thoughts...
Original post by ipoop
Yea, I'm hoping to land a big4 before I'm 25 then by the time I'm 30 go to New York then 5 years later to France and retire there. Yea I do love what I do (still), I would honestly do it for free if I had other means of financing my life. I would like to be a financial advisers to small businesses, something I would like to do for free if I find a way of living, I hear Pipa Myddleton is single?
Everyone's dream to make it to the big apple. However, I wouldn't get your hopes up, to practise accounting in the states, you'll need to undertake their examinations, ACA isn't really recognised there. Even if you get internal transfer, which will be difficult to the states, you'll have to get qualified under US law and regulations. It's much easier to transfer to anywhere in the EU/commonwealth - india, australia, canada, hong kong, singapore, malaysia etc.
Wow you love doing the books? Isn't advisory more along the lines of consulting rather than accounting? You could probably make the move after you get your ACA across service lines, but audit isn't really advising tbh
Original post by gonnabesomething
Everyone's dream to make it to the big apple. However, I wouldn't get your hopes up, to practise accounting in the states, you'll need to undertake their examinations, ACA isn't really recognised there. Even if you get internal transfer, which will be difficult to the states, you'll have to get qualified under US law and regulations. It's much easier to transfer to anywhere in the EU/commonwealth - india, australia, canada, hong kong, singapore, malaysia etc.
Wow you love doing the books? Isn't advisory more along the lines of consulting rather than accounting? You could probably make the move after you get your ACA across service lines, but audit isn't really advising tbh
Wow you love doing the books? Isn't advisory more along the lines of consulting rather than accounting? You could probably make the move after you get your ACA across service lines, but audit isn't really advising tbh
Yea I know, Americans and their cockyness, had this argument with my a week ago, he said the same things. One can always dream, he does say though I won't enjoy life in the States, he did not, seems like people that have been there say the same thing. I love doing the books most of the time, some clients just make you wish you had a gun. Last December was such a mess, I worked 6 days a week the whole month, even bank holidays I was present.
Original post by ipoop
Yea I know, Americans and their cockyness, had this argument with my a week ago, he said the same things. One can always dream, he does say though I won't enjoy life in the States, he did not, seems like people that have been there say the same thing. I love doing the books most of the time, some clients just make you wish you had a gun. Last December was such a mess, I worked 6 days a week the whole month, even bank holidays I was present.
Ah, yes, you do get short bursts when it can get really busy, but I've heard most of the time it's 9-5/9-6. Meh, the states isn't everything, but guess it's nice to experience if you can get a job over there
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